Elon: "Feature complete for full self driving this year"

[Dan Detweiler]

This update is an accident waiting to happen.

When and if it happens it will be completely the responsibility of the inattentive driver. YOU are the pilot in command...period. YOU are responsible for the actions of your car. This is not FSD. It is clearly explained several times in the update notes as well as when you turn the feature on that it is in beta and in no way is a replacement for the driver's due diligence. If you don't want the responsibility, don't turn it on. Simple

Dan

 

[Dan Detweiler]

I apologize.

And yes, I support milestones and positive progress. But I also like to set the record straight. There is a big difference between acknowledging that it is a positive milestone and more work needs to be done (perfectly ok) and saying that AP can already take you anywhere you want on city streets and imply that L5 is going to happen soon (not ok).

On those fronts and in that context, I agree with you. This update should not be lauded as "taking you anywhere you want to go". To say such is irresponsible.

Dan

 

[powertoold]

Don't get me wrong. This update is very impressive, but considering how easy it is to activate, it should be better than it is now.

This has been Tesla's practice throughout the years though: risky feature releases. This one takes the cake though.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Don't get me wrong. This update is very impressive, but considering how easy it is to activate, it should be better than it is now.

This has been Tesla's practice throughout the years though: risky feature releases. This one takes the cake though.

Too risky? Easy...don't use it.

Dan

 

[powertoold]

Too risky? Easy...don't use it.

Dan

I get it, but not everyone with a Tesla is a TMC regular.

 

[willow_hiller]

I get it, but not everyone with a Tesla is a TMC regular.

In retrospect, I think the speed limit cap is a self sorting mechanism for the kind of people that can responsibly use this feature and those who can't.

Third line in the warning message when you enable the feature is that it will obey all speed limits: 2020.12.5.6: Traffic Light & Stop Sign Control

I've already seen many "WTF, I can't go 15 over? This is useless!!" posts. Those are exactly the kind of drivers that I don't want using a beta feature in the first place.

 

[linux-works]

how about this: you have fsd, you turned on this new feature and you are letting AP limit you to the street speed limit. can you, manually, press the accel pedal and override that, for the duration of your 'press' ?

 

[powertoold]

how about this: you have fsd, you turned on this new feature and you are letting AP limit you to the street speed limit. can you, manually, press the accel pedal and override that, for the duration of your 'press' ?

Kind of defeats the purpose of the feature though, since you'll be taking your foot off for every red light.

 

[linux-works]

I was curious how much control was removed from the driver. can he still 'burst' manually while in that mode. you may, as the human driver, decide its safer to speed (to avoid being hit by a rear-end driver who does not seem to notice you..) or some other reason.

if tesla lets the driver still have full control, that's good. if a choice is removed in a mode, that's bad.

 

[powertoold]

This new feature is incredibly impressive, considering all the factors to stop comfortably at the correct lines. The fact that this feature works for the entirety of the USA is mind boggling.

I've always thought Tesla's approach to AP and FSD has been super ballsy, but their advancement here is a big leap imo, albeit it will likely cause many accidents (mostly rear ends).

 

[MrBadger]

Maybe wrong place to ask this, but I'm here now. So, is the signal control functionality only available to FSD owners? Thats how its worded in the feature set for FSD, but I've not noticed any 'I can't get this feature' posts anywhere. Hopefully its a feature that differentiates FSD from plain TACC/AP, even though its available in TACC.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

I get it, but not everyone with a Tesla is a TMC regular.

They don't have to be a TMC regular. All they have to do is read! LOL!

Dan

 

[Knightshade]

I was curious how much control was removed from the driver. can he still 'burst' manually while in that mode. you may, as the human driver, decide its safer to speed (to avoid being hit by a rear-end driver who does not seem to notice you..) or some other reason.

if tesla lets the driver still have full control, that's good. if a choice is removed in a mode, that's bad.

AFAIK driver inputs ALWAYS override the car- in all situations.

Doing so might put you in AP jail in some situations, but it'll always do what you tell it.

Maybe wrong place to ask this, but I'm here now. So, is the signal control functionality only available to FSD owners? Thats how its worded in the feature set for FSD, but I've not noticed any 'I can't get this feature' posts anywhere. Hopefully its a feature that differentiates FSD from plain TACC/AP, even though its available in TACC.

It's absolutely only for FSD (and HW3- which not all FSD cars are yet, upgrades still in progress or pending for many)

It's one of the specific listed features of it on the FSD order page in fact.

 

[ramonneke]

Tesletter on Twitter shared this video of the new beta traffic light feature, showing AP stopping at green lights if the driver does not press the accelerator or tap the stalk:

This is what I was worried about. This seems very dangerous.

It's not that the car will brake very late for green. The car will start to slow down very gracefully far ahead. Yes, this is braking but not like you would normally do. Drivers should be paying attention and you already have the foot near the throttle so it is really very easy to slightly tough the pedal.

What to me IS dangerous are the numerous phantom brakes that I've seen in videos where AP suddenly thinks there is a stop sign while there is none! Similar to the phantom brakes on highway driving that sometimes just happen.

 

[eXntrc]

(Sorry if this has been mentioned before. I've been keeping an eye on this thread but I don't recall seeing it and it didn't come up in searches.)

Anyone else notice that when Stoplights and Stop Signs is enabled, you can no longer set max speed to 5 MPH over posted on city streets? I can still set it up to max 90 on freeway, but on city streets it's now limited to exactly the posted limit. I verified it's the Stoplights and Stop Signs feature causing it. The moment I disabled that feature max speed could be set to 5 over again on city streets.

This is unfortunate for me because I really want to use this feature and help contribute in any way I can in "shadow mode". But in Houston traffic almost always goes 5 over posted signs, and the feature can only be toggled while in park. When I tried to use it today, people kept having to go around me. Hopefully this is just a temporary thing while it gains more confidence.

 

[diplomat33]

Anyone else notice that when Stoplights and Stop Signs is enabled, you can no longer set max speed to 5 MPH over posted on city streets?

Yes, this is a new change. I believe it is in the release notes for the traffic light response feature. Tesla changed the max speed limit on purpose.

 

[Mardak]

Anyone else notice that when Stoplights and Stop Signs is enabled, you can no longer set max speed to 5 MPH over posted on city streets?

After driving around with this new feature, I think the lower max speed is quite intentional but not "for safety" reasons people have been suggesting. The lower max speed encourages people to be pressing on the accelerator to maintain the +5mph speed which also confirms "go through stop control" and avoids the sudden braking for incorrectly identified stop controls. Driving this way is still better than manual driving in city streets without AutoPilot because although you're pressing the accelerator as normal, when you let go to stop at red lights and stop signs, the car smartly stops at the line for you.

Overall, this release does seem to be primarily for "data collection" and one key set of training data involves identifying which traffic lights are relevant to your lane. The visualizations now highlight the signals that AutoPilot thinks are for you, and here's an example of it being confused where both green lights are circles (not arrows) at an unprotected left turn:

Today's quick drive with 2020.12.6 has resulted in the car uploading more than 3GB of data.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

This new feature is incredibly impressive, considering all the factors to stop comfortably at the correct lines. The fact that this feature works for the entirety of the USA is mind boggling.

I've always thought Tesla's approach to AP and FSD has been super ballsy, but their advancement here is a big leap imo, albeit it will likely cause many accidents (mostly rear ends).

Hopefully some agency collects all the data on rear enders to see what the most rear ended car is. With this new "feature", and all the previously known false braking events Tesla might just win the award.

But, more seriously I simply don't see the utility in this so I don't expect that many accidents. If was insistent on using AP/TACC during drives with stop lights I'd probably rather have to stop manually than having to push the go pedal through a green light.

When I get this update I'm likely going to test it out just to see how prominent false detections are. But, I can't bring myself to drive the speed limit for very long.

To sum up my feeling of this update I'd say Tesla is giving customers work to do, and masking it as a feature.

 

[powertoold]

To sum up my feeling of this update I'd say Tesla is giving customers work to do, and masking it as a feature.

It's more for getting FSD money for this quarter. Tesla doesn't need people to use this feature to test out the traffic control detection. It can all be done via shadow mode.

 

[Knightshade]

Hopefully some agency collects all the data on rear enders to see what the most rear ended car is. With this new "feature", and all the previously known false braking events Tesla might just win the award.

People have been saying this for years now.

I've yet to see a single person ever post about actually getting rear ended in a Tesla from a phantom braking event though.

Surely you've got hundreds of such threads to link to though that I missed?