Elon Musk says some unwise things about Apple and their hires from Tesla !

[anticitizen13.7]

Well O.K., but you haven't told me what Tesla invented.

Tesla (the company, not the man) hasn't invented anything new. I don't think it's important whether they did or not. Tesla Motors didn't pioneer unibody construction, or multi-link suspensions, or tires. Someone else invented the electric motor, the integrated circuit, the LCD, the capacitive touch screen, and the Lithium Ion battery. Over-the-air firmware updates and direct sales existed prior to Tesla Motors, albeit in the consumer electronics industry rather than the automotive industry.

Anyone with a couple billion dollars could have bought what was necessary get Tesla Motors started, but it took someone with a vision of transforming automobile transport to make it happen.

Inventors often do and should get a lot of credit, but it takes more than an inventor to transform an industry. Figuring out how all the pieces fit together into a complete model, and making it work from a business standpoint is that intangible, invaluable attribute of a great innovator. When I first learned of Tesla Motors in 2006, I thought the product idea was insane, absurd, and probably doomed. It wasn't until I saw the Model S prototype around 2009 that I though the company might have something worthwhile, and it wasn't until the Beta reveal that I thought they had a greater than 50% chance of success. Even if someone had given me 5 billion dollars in 2003 and a bunch of car tech, I really doubt that I would have had the vision to create something like Tesla. I probably would have squandered the money on fuel cells.

 

[electracity]

nothing that I am aware of. and neither have I made any claims towards this.

How about the guy who "invented" the wheel. Does he get credit for invention? There was probably multi-sided, non round pre-wheels on axles before the wheel.

By your definition, nothing has been invented by homo sapiens. Ancestral hominids were the true inventors.

 

[Vizir]

How about the guy who "invented" the wheel. Does he get credit for invention? There was probably multi-sided, non round pre-wheels on axles before the wheel.

By your definition, nothing has been invented by homo sapiens. Ancestral hominids were the true inventors.

i'd like some of what you're smoking.

 

[Quant]

nothing that I am aware of. and neither have I made any claims towards this.

Sometimes, I think some people confuse technology or a " technical " invention " " with a product.

Technology, or a technical invention, is not a product. Discovering X Rays, or the first one to produce them, by themselves are not a product either. But, it is and was profound.

However, what some highly technology focused types do not get is that the world could not care less.

The key is what can it do for me: simply, better, quickly, at less cost, etc.... And with a very, very high tolerance.

So, depending on how you see things , it may be different for you. So, semantics are not that important, in my view.

The key is how do you change the world, change lives, change living etc, etc. , for humanity , by bringing "inventions" to them.

In this sense, I believe both Apple and Tesla will be seen, by the masses, as companies who created ( notice I am not using the term "invented") things that did not exist before ( an " invention" ? ), or in the same way as they existed for years, even though a narrow " technical invention" actually " existed" at a different level.

So, if you want to say that these 2 companies didn't really "invent" anything, from your POV, then you can take that claim and stick it wherever you want to ! Or, do what you want with it ! Nobody really gives a F.

It really won't make a difference.

Because semantics is not what matters. I would refer you to a book recommended by Elon, written by Ray Kurzweil called " How to create a mind", which discusses semantics and pattern recognition theory of the brain and how it processes stuff with respect to perception and conjures up reality. Given all the languages and thousands of dialects in the world, the brain may not actually care about, or place much value on semantics.

 

[wdolson]

People frequently confuse science and technology. X-rays were a scientific discovery. The x-ray machine was an technological invention.

No invention, or even scientific discovery comes out of nowhere. The personal computer pulled together lots and lots of bits and pieces of technology created by other people and other companies.

Intel introduced the first commercial microprocessor in 1971, but that was built on technology developed by other people and science discovered by many people going back more than 100 years.

The Apple I was not the first personal computer, the Mac was not the first computer with a graphical user interface, the iPad was not the first tablet computer, nor was the iPhone the first smart phone (phones were evolving in such a way different people are going to draw a different line on what exactly the first smart phone was). Apple's strength is taking emerging technologies that haven't quite clicked yet and package it in such a way the general public take notice. They have a way to appeal to at least a segment of users who find the interface intuitive and easier to use than what went before. They either took technology that others had tried to make work and failed with the public, or introduced technology that had only been available in industry to a mass market of end consumers.

There are different types of technologies, there are basic technologies like battery chemistry, building block technologies like microprocessors which need to be built into something else to be useful, and complete products. Apple's strength is complete product technologies. They buy most of their building block technologies from other companies.

Tesla and SpaceX's innovation reaches a bit deeper than Apple. For example SpaceX has advanced an existing technology for welding aluminum, enabling them to weld much larger pieces of aluminum with much stronger welds than what was capable before. This technique worked for small welds, but SpaceX can do one long weld all the way up the side of a stage of a rocket. SpaceX gave this technology to Tesla where it's used on the Model S and X. This is just one of the advancements in basic technology Elon's companies have done.

Ultimately, you can point to someone else who pioneered every bit of science and every bit of technology in everything any company has done. The companies that get known for innovation are the ones the make bigger steps forward in their technology than other companies. A large number of companies today, especially in the US are just "phoning it in" as far as advancement goes. They are just trying to squeeze a few more bucks out of old tired technologies. Other companies are pushing the boundaries of what is possible.

 

[DriverOne]

Apple... still use AMD and Intel CPU's. They just repackage existing tech into a more pleasing form-factor.

Actually, Apple has not used AMD CPUs ever, AFAIK. Macs use Intel, since around 2006. iOS devices use Apple-designed ("invented" :tongue: ) SoCs, such as today's very fast A9. There are hundreds of creative people working every day on iOS and OS X who would argue with your statement that they're not inventive.

They just repackage existing tech into a more pleasing form-factor.

"Just". Easy to say, hard to do - especially repeatedly. I think form factors count as inventions, too. Creating a successful form factor is very hard; I recall Elon saying the Model S interior turned out to be a much harder problem than he'd anticipated (a car isn't just a sum of the mechanical parts - there are human factors and interfaces too!)

 

[StephenM]

Exactly. You can criticize Apple for their corporate governance or ruthless business style, but to dismiss them as never having done anything new or innovative is ridiculous. Especially if you're of the camp that thinks Tesla is doing an amazing thing.

 

[wdolson]

Actually, Apple has not used AMD CPUs ever, AFAIK. Macs use Intel, since around 2006. iOS devices use Apple-designed ("invented" :tongue: ) SoCs, such as today's very fast A9. There are hundreds of creative people working every day on iOS and OS X who would argue with your statement that they're not inventive.



"Just". Easy to say, hard to do - especially repeatedly. I think form factors count as inventions, too. Creating a successful form factor is very hard; I recall Elon saying the Model S interior turned out to be a much harder problem than he'd anticipated (a car isn't just a sum of the mechanical parts - there are human factors and interfaces too!)

The core of the Ax series of SoC do use processor cores developed by PowerVR. Most portable devices use PowerVR processors these days.

I was discussing what I did with my SO one day and I said I couldn't do work that wasn't creative. She had a difficult time wrapping her mind around the idea that writing software was creative. The writing part isn't always creative, but designing it definitely is. (I do both design and development.)

Apple is a very creative company and I agree that good form factor takes a lot of work. Apple is very good at developing devices people want to use. Apple is not strong at developing core technologies though. I'm sure somewhere along the way they have developed or advanced some basic technologies, but that isn't their strong suit.

Tesla and SpaceX on the other hand will develop new basic technologies if they can't find it out there. Elon Musk boils everything down to the basic Physics. If what he wants to do does not violate the basic laws of Physics, he pushes his people to figure out how to do it.

 

[DriverOne]

The core of the Ax series of SoC do use processor cores developed by PowerVR. Most portable devices use PowerVR processors these days.

PowerVR supplies designs for the GPU part. The rest is Apple. (PowerVR is owned by Imagination Tech, who actually do MIPS cores, not ARM).

I was discussing what I did with my SO one day and I said I couldn't do work that wasn't creative. She had a difficult time wrapping her mind around the idea that writing software was creative. The writing part isn't always creative, but designing it definitely is. (I do both design and development.)

Software development has a large art component, I believe. There is art to it from design to class structure to code layout. It's far from purely math!

 

[mrdoubleb]

Actually, Apple has not used AMD CPUs ever, AFAIK. Macs use Intel, since around 2006. iOS devices use Apple-designed ("invented" :tongue: ) SoCs, such as today's very fast A9. There are hundreds of creative people working every day on iOS and OS X who would argue with your statement that they're not inventive.



"Just". Easy to say, hard to do - especially repeatedly. I think form factors count as inventions, too. Creating a successful form factor is very hard; I recall Elon saying the Model S interior turned out to be a much harder problem than he'd anticipated (a car isn't just a sum of the mechanical parts - there are human factors and interfaces too!)

Completely OT, but Apple uses AMD GPUs. They only ever teased AMD CPUs to get a better deal from Intel.

 

[pGo]

No wonder Elon said what he said recently about Apple.

An electric motorcycle company says it was killed off by Apples poaching | The Verge

 

[Lump]

Elon Musk says Steve Jobs was ‘kind of a jerk’: Tesla founder takes another swipe at Apple following electric car rumours

Elon Musk was recently asked to give his comments about former Apple CEO Steve Jobs - and what he had to say was far from flattering.
'The one time I met Steve Jobs, he was kind of a jerk. And everyone who knew him...' Musk told GQ magazine.

Musk then stopped himself from going further and asked to 'withdraw' his comments, adding that it was a 'personal experience'.
The outspoken Tesla CEO said when Larry Page introduced him to Jobs at party several years ago, Jobs didn't know who he was.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3361649/Elon-Musk-says-Steve-Jobs-kind-jerk-Tesla-founder-takes-swipe-Apple-following-electric-car-rumours.html

 

[wdolson]

Elon Musk says Steve Jobs was ‘kind of a jerk’: Tesla founder takes another swipe at Apple following electric car rumours


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3361649/Elon-Musk-says-Steve-Jobs-kind-jerk-Tesla-founder-takes-swipe-Apple-following-electric-car-rumours.html

Depending on when the party was, I wouldn't be surprised if Jobs didn't know who Musk was before Paypal became much of anything.

From what I've read about both Musk and Jobs, both men can be/were jerks sometimes. I know someone who worked with Jobs at Apple and he said he was fired a number of times for having the temerity to challenge Jobs. Then he'd get a call the next day from Jobs' assistant wondering where he was only to be told Jobs hadn't actually fired him no matter what he actually said.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Elon Musk says Steve Jobs was ‘kind of a jerk’: Tesla founder takes another swipe at Apple following electric car rumours

I'm not surprised. Wozniak himself (met Woz at a computer nerd event many years ago) told me that Jobs had treated him badly and was abusive towards others at Apple in the 70s and 80s.

I'll give Jobs credit for being a visionary, but he was not a nice person and I don't think he cared to be a nice person.