Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

The Elon Musk Show

Status
Not open for further replies.
It’s bizarre how you are happy to see Tesla carry on selling cars at record margins and turning a pretty profit at your expense because of their anti-competitive business model.
Ah I get it. You want Tesla to sell through dealers, so the dealers can take a big margin and build a shiny showroom to flatter your negotiating instincts, Tesla no longer make a profit, and you pay more for the Tesla after your negotiation than you do now. Sounds like an awesome plan.

I would prefer for Tesla to continue to earn enough money to reinvest in the next iteration of the production engineering which will give us the £25,000 Tesla compact.

If Tesla is not competitive, then buy those other more competitive cars that you negotiated through the local dealers. Ah but you want a Tesla? Yes thats right, negotiated price is not the same as value for money.
 
We don’t always agree, but I thought better of you touting this type of rubbish. Tesla “sell” most of its quarters production in one month, just take a look at Julys figure , Tesla sold something like 6 cars, just 6, that month.

Look at YTD figures and I don’t think tesla have a car in the top 10, and Tesla have just 2 models for sale in Europe, the competition often have 10 or more.
Please remember to be polite even if you are pointing out some obvious mistakes. I guess you set the standard for the forum being a moderator!

I wasn’t touting - I just assumed people who are on these forums are aware of how Tesla sell their products quarterly. And even if you make the back of the envelope calculation Tesla is the best selling EV this year and completely destroyed the competition. And the context of this whole argument is bout how Tesla has changed the traditional car industry model and still be successful rather than which is the best selling car?
 
Last edited:
I really wish there were EVs with charger networks that rivalled Tesla - if there were I would cancel our order. I love the car, the tech and all of that, but recently Musk has gone right down in my estimation and in my opinion is too wealthy and too powerful for a single person.
Not a good reason not to buy a Tesla. Remember Godfather - it is nothing personal - has all the life lessons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EVMeister
I wasn’t touting - I just assumed people who are on these forums are aware of how Tesla sell their products quarterly. And even if you make the back of the envelope calculation Tesla is the best selling EV this year and completely destroyed the competition. And the context of this whole argument is bout how Tesla has changed the traditional car industry model and still be successful rather than which is the best selling car?
Make an argument using something like total sales in year or quarter, and across a brand and see how far you get, you might then be putting a reasonable argument. Teslas share of the EV market has fallen quite significantly over time in Europe and is falling in China. Seeking alpha is pretty anti Tesla but they quote figures and show a fall from 20% to just 7% over 3 years, and in Q2 this year it was down to 5%


UK sales figures for all cars have the likes of VW and BMW outselling Tesla many times over.

If you want to use data, get some meaningful stats and please don't take them out of context
 
Isn’t it just about timescales. Legacy auto takes years to bring a new car model to the market. Why do we judge Tesla by a different standard? The first murmur of a model 2 is what 2 or 3 years ago.
People are happy to have the same car in different disguises (coupes, CC, convertibles, SUV, active tourer, XUV, estates) and feel they got a good deal and a new car! And they are not used to the iPad way of making cars with 3-4 models with couple of configurations.

Unfortunately Tesla is judged by a different standard that is set for Elon!
 
  • Like
Reactions: UkNorthampton
Isn’t it just about timescales. Legacy auto takes years to bring a new car model to the market. Why do we judge Tesla by a different standard? The first murmur of a model 2 is what 2 or 3 years ago.
The only difference is that they don’t take a deposit off you (and I use that term lightly as it’s actually an interest free loan from you) and then keep lying about when you’ll actually have your car. A bit like the FSD scam.
 
The only difference is that they don’t take a deposit off you (and I use that term lightly as it’s actually an interest free loan from you) and then keep lying about when you’ll actually have your car. A bit like the FSD scam.
What FSD scam?
You need to get properly informed instead of parroting the MSM.
YES, they got it wrong the problem was more difficult than first thought,
and YES, the original date and several further optimistic dates have come and gone.
BUT, the progress on FSD is considerable, and in the process Tesla have created a World Class AI team (that's what the AI day1 and now day 2 are ALL about i.e. aiming to recruit the very best talent).
So where is the scam?
 

EVer Hopeful

Active Member
Jul 7, 2021
1,431
1,136
Texas
Teslas share of the EV market has fallen quite significantly over time in Europe and is falling in China. Seeking alpha is pretty anti Tesla but they quote figures and show a fall from 20% to just 7% over 3 years, and in Q2 this year it was down to 5%
Isn't that' what's supposed to happen?

How many EV manufacturers were there before Tesla started up? So after they dragged the competition kicking and screaming into the EV world their "share of the EV market" is bound to "fall" - that's actually a GOOD thing !
 
What FSD scam?
You need to get properly informed instead of parroting the MSM.
YES, they got it wrong the problem was more difficult than first thought,
and YES, the original date and several further optimistic dates have come and gone.
BUT, the progress on FSD is considerable, and in the process Tesla have created a World Class AI team (that's what the AI day1 and now day 2 are ALL about i.e. aiming to recruit the very best talent).
So where is the scam?
Is your whole pension fund invested in Tesla or something?

Scam, let's start with Tesla putting out videos like these from 6 years ago



Then all the feature complete, by the end of the year tweets from Musk which happen every year, the promise of robotaxi just about every year..

Tesla time and the joke that that has become is well known, yet Musk carries on with his stupid predictions.

It is NOT good enough to say timescales have slipped a bit because the problem was harder than they thought when they've put out spurious videos or supposed progress over the years which turn out to be largely fake.

Isn't that' what's supposed to happen?

How many EV manufacturers were there before Tesla started up? So after they dragged the competition kicking and screaming into the EV world their "share of the EV market" is bound to "fall" - that's actually a GOOD thing !
Not if you listen to the Tesla fanboys who think the rest of the car manufacturers can't make an EV to save their lives. If Tesla are 10 years ahead of the competition as many of the supporters claim, including many on here, then why are 19 out of every 20 Electric cars sold across europe not a Tesla if the article is correct?

As for how many manufacturers were present early on... well

Nissan Leaf started the current generation back in 2010
BMW created their electric divsion in 2010 and were developing the i3 when Tesla were developing the Model S
Nissan and Renault paid for the ecotricity rapid charger network back in 2011 to support their early cars, which many Tesla owners were still using in the late 2010's ( I was a big ecotricity back in 2015 and 2016 when I got my first Tesla).
The Renault zoe started in 2012
Mercedes backed Tesla and invested in them as part of their corporate investment into EVs, you can still find a lot of Mercedes switchgear in the MS and MX, and Mercedes ued Tesla components for its first full EV.

History isn't as clear cut as "Tesla did it and everyone followed", and part of why Tesla leapt forward is Musk and his promises, many of which he did deliver on (primarily performance and range, although even those aren't without controversy) and his self driving capability which hasn't. That has been defined by a 3rd party system initially, and now a system that is still going around in circles because they can't land on a final hardware stack, and in the UK it's substandard to most of the competition (because most of the competition are on systems 2 generations on from the Tesla AP1 stack).

Ask yourself some simple questions - take the videos above - from 6 years ago - yet only a year ago, a full FIVE years later, they decide they have issues stitching images together, and they finally give up on the radar. How are those two things compatible without the former being a misrepresentation of where they really were?
 
We don’t always agree, but I thought better of you touting this type of rubbish. Tesla “sell” most of its quarters production in one month, just take a look at Julys figure , Tesla sold something like 6 cars, just 6, that month.

Look at YTD figures and I don’t think tesla have a car in the top 10, and Tesla have just 2 models for sale in Europe, the competition often have 10 or more.
We are not comparing like-with-like when Tesla only claim a sale when the car is delivered. Tesla can't produce enough vehicles, yet ALL their vehicle factories produced record levels in Q3 2022. Musk predicted the Model Y would be the biggest seller by value this year (which it will) and the biggest seller by volume next year... The fact that it only produces 4 models is pretty much irrelevant as only BYD has taken up the challenge to go completely ICE free and go for volume production of BEVs. The legacy auto manufacturers look destined become niche market players with their dozens of different models.
 
What FSD scam?
You need to get properly informed instead of parroting the MSM.
YES, they got it wrong the problem was more difficult than first thought,
and YES, the original date and several further optimistic dates have come and gone.
BUT, the progress on FSD is considerable, and in the process Tesla have created a World Class AI team (that's what the AI day1 and now day 2 are ALL about i.e. aiming to recruit the very best talent).
So where is the scam?
Blah blah blah… get properly informed… blah blah blah… MSM… blah. I guess I better listen to some YouTubers or some fake news site that Musk retweeted over the weekend instead.

That and the fact your asking “where is the scam” after setting out all of the above says it all.
 
I'm sorry if a request for evidence of your very strong claim against Tesla of committing a scam was too much for you.
There is evidence that the problem is difficult and we now understand, more than ever, just how difficult, but for it to be a scam you would have to show that Tesla are just faking their efforts to resolve the problem.
You will have a problem there as there is a mass of evidence to the contrary.
DrJFoster put up 2 videos above of demonstrations of FSD from 6 years ago as part of evidence of a scam.
I would take issue with those as to their source - seems more likely they are over optimistic YouTubers getting carried away.
I watched them both anyway and they seem honest - the first video is at real speed - never above 35 mph, very mistake ridden - slowing and stopping for 2 people on the pavement just walking along for example. Very naive, slow junction joining - in fact probably not as good as a nervous 'noobie' driver.
I think we all may have been at fault for projecting the development path from those early beginnings.
I have been disappointed myself in Autopilot, and the slow pace of development of FSD - I won't even use the TACC when my wife is aboard, having experienced a little bit of 'phantom braking'. But that doesn't stop me appreciating the fantastic technology I have access to (this is my 2nd Tesla) and it doesn't cause me start making wild claims on Forums...
 

GeorgeSymonds

Active Member
Moderator
Mar 16, 2018
2,729
3,188
UK
DrJFoster put up 2 videos above of demonstrations of FSD from 6 years ago as part of evidence of a scam.
I would take issue with those as to their source - seems more likely they are over optimistic YouTubers getting carried away.

You do realise those videos were sourced from Tesla direct because the features on show weren't publically available at the time?

The youtube dates are when they were posted. These come from a time in the window between AP1 being killed off after Joshua Brown decapitated himself and Mobileye saying enough is enough to Tesla, and Tesla releasing any software to owners. The videos were released as the promise to what EAP and FSD would bring before anyone had chance to use the actual software.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top