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Elon says AWD and Perf orders start at end of next week!

drawfour

Member
Mar 10, 2018
774
708
Seattle, WA
But it should give you more range and apparently doesn't (officially)
It only "should" because it did in the S. It has added weight because of the second motor. It's possible that in the first release, it will only be just as efficient as the other, but in a software update, they will modify how the motors work with each other to be more efficient.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Elon only said that the range was 310 for the Performance version. He didn't say it's also 310 for the non-Performance version, right? Unless I missed a tweet...
 

drawfour

Member
Mar 10, 2018
774
708
Seattle, WA
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Elon only said that the range was 310 for the Performance version. He didn't say it's also 310 for the non-Performance version, right? Unless I missed a tweet...
... and scratch that, I see the tweet. :) It's 310 range. I do think it could just be a "for now" kind of situation, but we can never be sure.
 

TheSuit

Member
Aug 28, 2016
19
-32
NY
The Model 3 is meant to be the car everyone can afford. He's got half a million pre orders even with a 2 year wait - he has all volume he needs to keep prices down. Elon himself said the options would be cheaper - they aren't. This is a bait and switch plain and simple
 

drawfour

Member
Mar 10, 2018
774
708
Seattle, WA
Please explain how you believe a dual motor setup would give you more range Mr. Edison.
Probably because it did in the S. Same size battery, except dual motor was always more range for the dual motor. It's because the motors are better at different things - the front motor was more efficient at highway speeds, so it would be switched on for most of the load, whereas the rear motor was more efficient at lower speeds. In a RWD system, one motor has to do both kinds of driving.
 

ken830

Model S 85, Model 3 Performance
Jun 19, 2012
1,111
365
San Carlos, CA
$5K for AWD is a lot. $2,000 on 340i to go from RWD to AWD.

0-60 in 4.5 is almost bang on with BMW 340xi performance.

Comparing 0-60 times between electric and ICE is very misleading. Look at the C/D numbers for the BMW 340xi vs Tesla Model 3 RWD LR

BMW 340xi claimed 0-60: 4.6 sec

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 12.0 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 21.2 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.2 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 7.1 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 6.5 sec

Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 104 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 149 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 160 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.94 g


Tesla Model 3 RWD LR claimed 0-60: 5.1 sec

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.6 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 27.8 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.1 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 1.9 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 2.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 141 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 176 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.84 g

That's because getting acceleration times from a dead-stop requires reving the engine to it's power band and dumping a clutch (or something similar with automatics/"manu-matics"). Actual "usable" acceleration for stop-sign-to-stop-sign or freeway passing is the true measure of acceleration for day-to-day use. The AWD Model 3 will be way faster in normal driving and the Performance one will be even faster still. The top-gear 30-50mph and 50-70mph are a little weird to compare, but to get a better number on the ICE car, you'd need to account for time to down-shift -- For the Tesla, that number doesn't change because there's only one gear ratio. Either way, it'll be a dramatic difference when driving.


Here are the BMW M3 numbers for comparison:

BMW M3 claimed 0-60: 3.9 sec

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.0 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.6 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 14.6 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 21.1 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 4.6 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.2 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 2.8 sec

Standing ¼-mile: 12.2 sec @ 120 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 163 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 146 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.98 g
 

Ketchups

Member
Dec 16, 2017
481
269
San Diego, CA
Probably because it did in the S. Same size battery, except dual motor was always more range for the dual motor. It's because the motors are better at different things - the front motor was more efficient at highway speeds, so it would be switched on for most of the load, whereas the rear motor was more efficient at lower speeds. In a RWD system, one motor has to do both kinds of driving.
ah, I see. Sort of like the hybrids.
 

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,175
Davis, CA
Elon himself said the options would be cheaper - they aren't. This is a bait and switch plain and simple

That’s not true. Some options are cheaper. Red and white paint is cheaper. Premium Package is cheaper (because it includes premium seats which are an extra $3300 for S and X). Wheel upgrades are cheaper.
 
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drawfour

Member
Mar 10, 2018
774
708
Seattle, WA
The Model 3 is meant to be the car everyone can afford. He's got half a million pre orders even with a 2 year wait - he has all volume he needs to keep prices down. Elon himself said the options would be cheaper - they aren't. This is a bait and switch plain and simple
Volume of orders is not the same thing as volume of production. It's called "economies of scale" and has to do with greater efficient in the system the more volume you PRODUCE. Right now, they've just begun to squeeze 3500/wk out of their system, and that can't even meet the current demand. So they continue doing higher-margin options because that brings in more cash. And that helps them continue to refine their lines.
 

adamred23

New Member
May 20, 2018
4
4
So Cal
Probably because it did in the S. Same size battery, except dual motor was always more range for the dual motor. It's because the motors are better at different things - the front motor was more efficient at highway speeds, so it would be switched on for most of the load, whereas the rear motor was more efficient at lower speeds. In a RWD system, one motor has to do both kinds of driving.

I would suspect it has more to do with the front motor helping with regen braking. Not only does 70% of braking happen in the front, but the motor type in the Model 3 can only regen down to 5MPH the motor in the front will be able to regen down to 0MPH.
 

favo

P3D+ owner
Apr 5, 2012
1,041
1,138
Durham, NC
... and scratch that, I see the tweet. :) It's 310 range. I do think it could just be a "for now" kind of situation, but we can never be sure.
I'm guessing that 310 for the P might be pretty accurate, but for the D it's somewhat of an underestimate (as LR seems to be). Probably don't want to encroach on the 100D range, while also not being to far off when weather and road conditions lessen ideal range. Might actually be an under-promise/over-deliver situation (!).
 

drawfour

Member
Mar 10, 2018
774
708
Seattle, WA
I would suspect it has more to do with the front motor helping with regen braking. Not only does 70% of braking happen in the front, but the motor type in the Model 3 can only regen down to 5MPH the motor in the front will be able to regen down to 0MPH.
Do you have a link to something that says the front motor can regen down to 0mph? Did it do that on the S, so you're just inferring that it can do it here? I thought the S didn't get regen braking below 5mph, but I haven't read up on it.
 

Xminus6

Member
Sep 3, 2015
697
472
Bay Area, CA
I would suspect it has more to do with the front motor helping with regen braking. Not only does 70% of braking happen in the front, but the motor type in the Model 3 can only regen down to 5MPH the motor in the front will be able to regen down to 0MPH.
The D cars don’t really regen all the way to a stop in a useful way. Our X will obviously roll to a stop eventually but the regen “braking” power tapers off the slower you get.
 

bgbolton

Member
May 5, 2018
136
-17
San Francisco, CA
Further should price not go down not up over time??

If a goal was to increase margins why not then start with this config??

My previous predictions again.. Tesla has no intention to ship remaining orders soon. Now with AWD in July they plan to just increase profit $2500 at a time but with no expenses by building no cars except after the chance for them to try to laugh at wall street in Q3
 

FlatSix911

Porsche 918 Hybrid
Jun 15, 2015
6,538
5,944
Silicon Valley
More details at Electrek Tesla unveils faster and more powerful Model 3 dual motor AWD and Performance versions

Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor All-Wheel-Drive
Tesla CEO Elon Musk confirmed that the new dual motor Model 3 vehicles are equipped with a front AC induction motor to complement the switched reluctance, partial permanent magnet motor at the rear.
  • Range: 310 miles
  • 0 to 60 mph acceleration: 4.5 seconds
  • Top speed: 140 mph
  • Price: $5,000 for AWD option
That compares to the rear-wheel-drive version’s official 0-60 mph time of 5.1 seconds. Tesla is listing the same top speed and range as the single motor version.

Tesla Model 3 Performance Dual Motor All-Wheel-Drive
The performance version features the same motors (AC in the front and permanent magnet in the rear) as the dual version, but they are picking the highest rated ones with double the burn-in process to make sure they can handle a higher output.

Musk also said that the performance version will feature a carbon fiber spoiler, 20” Performance wheels, and black and white interior options. He claimed it will be 15% quicker than the BMW M3 and with better handling, and “will beat anything in its class on the track.”
  • Range: 310 miles
  • 0 to 60 mph acceleration: 3.5 seconds
  • Top speed: 155 mph
  • Price: $78,000 (without autopilot)
We don’t see the option being available in the design studio yet, but Musk says it will be up for “early reservation holders” tonight.
 
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adamred23

New Member
May 20, 2018
4
4
So Cal
Do you have a link to something that says the front motor can regen down to 0mph? Did it do that on the S, so you're just inferring that it can do it here? I thought the S didn't get regen braking below 5mph, but I haven't read up on it.

I remembered seeing those speed somewhere, but it doesn't seem to go in line with what people are experiencing while driving. At any rate, you still will have more regen braking power with two motors, allowing more power to be recouped without using the friction brakes.
 

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