This is one of my biggest concerns. What Tesla is doing isn't wrong or bad per se, but plain and simple, the interior isn't worth $35k. They're gonna get a lot of backlash trying to sell a car for $35k when it's got a $15k interior.
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People aren't paying $35000+ for the interior. They're paying it because they want a long range EV that's fun to drive. Just like people aren't paying $70000+ for the S interior. If a fancy interior was my priority I'd have bought a different car, but my priority was an EV. The Model 3 may not be for everyone, but Tesla will sell as many as they can make.
I feel quite confident that there will be at least a minimum of controls on the steering wheel. It's difficult to imagine how one would safely operate the vehicle without them.
Regarding the voice recognition, I can say that the implementation on the current Tesla SW is much more convenient than any other vehicle I've owned. With music, the button press mutes the music and waits for your input. "Play Rachmaninoff" will start a new Slacker/Spotify stream. "Drive to Costco" will bring up a list of the closest Costco locations. "Drive to Costco in Santa Rosa" will start navigation to that specific location. I can't think of a situation where I would prefer to type this nonsense into a display instead of using voice - sick or not. I realize you may be imagining more simple tasks requiring voice, but for ones like those I've listed, I nearly always find voice to be simpler.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
If Model 3 is like Bolt interior I'd feel not so good paying $35k. But if it is atleast like Leaf (which costs nearly $35k), I'd be ok.
The question is, can you make such a bland and minimal interior worth the $35k price tag? You can only make a dash/console so exciting when there are zero buttons. I'm sure it's doable, but since we're conditioned to think gadgets and neat designs = luxury, it may be a tough sales pitch.
I agree with some caveats.
- It relies on cell connection. It sometimes takes a minute or two for the car to get connectivity from first startup, as well as the times you are out of cell range.
- Maybe it's a British accent thing, but it doesn't work too well against phone contacts for me.
- If you say "Dial Pete" and you have 5 Petes, you end up on the scroll wheel anyway. Specifying a surname doesn't help because of the point above. (I wonder if unlike navigation or music selection this is down to the audio recognition not having the benefit of predictive basis, because your personal contacts aren't available to the recognition service).
- IMHO, it is worse in the current S/W compared to previously with a random amount of lag, rather than the old hold and wait for the bong operation it used to have.
- It isn't context aware (so in my "Pete" example, you can't say "Dial Pete" > list comes up > the say "second one down")
- Simple stuff like "Next Song", "Volume Up", "A/C Off", etc. aren't included.
- Recognition against Spotify doesn't seem as accurate as RDIO. (This is an EU specific problem)
As it stands now, for making phone calls, I have stopped bothering with voice and use the steering wheel buttons.
Now if it was as good as Amazon's Echo, I think it could possibly pass as a replacement for all buttons (connectivity issues aside).
As previously noted, buttons on steering wheels have only started happening in the past few decades. Humans have driven cars for scores of years without buttons. I can entirely see the Model 3 not having a single button.
I do agree that the situations you listed would be conducive toward voice recognition. As you guessed, I was thinking stuff like starting or parking your car. Adjusting the volume. Ending a phone call. Things that a single button could accomplish.
I suspect Model 3 owners will a spend a lot of time fiddling with the screen.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It'll all be on execution of the design and material choice. For example there are still people who feel the Model S interior feels much cheaper than its price tag, even though most people don't seem to mind (the minimalist design helps). I think luxury/premium cars have people expecting a premium car to be laden with leather, wood, and a billion buttons.
If Tesla goes with the hard plastic (with hard touch finishes) like the Bolt, then it would feel really cheap, but I don't think they will do that. And even though people bag on the Model 3 for only having one screen, I think at least the dash design looks a lot cleaner, upscale, and modern than something like the Bolt's design (which is similar to most econobox designs).
An expensive leather sofa doesn't need buttons to feel luxurious, so I don't see why a car interior does.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
My personal preference is minimalist. There are a large number of modern/hip products that are built that way.
Anyone who has seen an S will not mistake Tesla for a luxurious interior. Tesla is not a luxury brand - it is a hip/cool brand, for lack of a better term. Not dissimilar to Apple.
So, the big question is will Model 3 live up to the Tesla brand - as understood by the 400k reservation holders.
No but it does need to be made from the highest quality materials.
I'm not seeing anyone arguing the 3 will be made from leather only from bulls bred at altitude in non barbed wire fences (silly as this sounds that's what Rolls Royce do.)
Tesla have a price point to hit. Can they pull it off with no buttons, lower end materials, and still claim it's a premium brand... I look forward to the interior reveal to see how close they get.
N5329K
Active Member
View attachment 221390
Good minimalist. Cheap minimalist. Where will the Model 3 appear on that spectrum?
Robin
I agree with you. But remember, there's good minimalist and cheap ugly minimalist. Apple succeeds by giving you something clean, functional but substantial to hold. Every time you touch it, you feel a little zip of reward for having decided to buy a beautifully-designed product. Chairs are the same. Every time you pick up a cheap, rickety minimalist chair you think, thank goodness I don't have to I sit in this POS for long. Volvo designs minimalist cabins but with the best seats in the industry. Every time you sit in one you think, Whoa. Someone's thought this through. This is nice.
Good minimalist. Cheap minimalist. Where will the Model 3 appear on that spectrum?
Robin
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Petra
Member
Of course nobody would make that mistake... but mostly because, somewhere along the line, someone decided that "luxury" and "gaudy mess" were synonyms and people went along with it.
Not really Petra.Of course nobody would make that mistake... but mostly because, somewhere along the line, someone decided that "luxury" and "gaudy mess" were synonyms and people went along with it.
My test of "luxury" or more specifically "quality" regarding the Model S interior is to grab the dashboard above the instrument binnacle and try and shake it. Try the same in a contemporary Audi.
Then there are little differences, the handles in the Audi are metal, the Tesla plastic sprayed silver. The bezel round the touchscreen isn't one piece and the gaps where it joins splay over time. Certain trim pieces have moulded in faux stitching, and where stitching is real it's not always straight.
Aesthetically the Model S is better, but in terms of solidity, materials and QC, Audi is better.
(I would actually say the most impressive car I've sat in recently is not an Audi, rather the new XC90 T8. It's probably the best example of minimalist at quality, and it's clear they have "stolen" some of Tesla's screen orientated approach to controls. They haven't removed all the buttons, but the quality is IMHO unparalleled at this price point.)
thegruf
Active Member
Petra
Member
It was an aesthetics-focused joke...
Execution and build quality, on the other hand... oh boy, don't get me started.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
I noticed these points in particular:
and
So, what is seen by Consumers is likely to be familiar to those who have seen and driven the Model S or Model X. You know what? That's OK. Perfectly fine. Because those vehicles are frickin' AWESOME.
I am genuinely surprised that so many have been dismayed by this revelation. I had understood from the outset that the Tesla Generation III vehicles would be a new platform. Meaning the 'bones' of the car, the engineering of it, from the ground up, would be an entirely new iteration of Tesla's electric vehicle technology. That it would seamlessly integrate everything Tesla had learned to that point and refine it to create the best possible affordable vehicles for mass production.
From my point of view, I thought both Elon Musk and JB Straubel had been clear about their intent. The Model 3 would be placed against the BMW 3-Series. As such, it would occupy a similar position within the Tesla product line. People who wanted a larger, more luxurious and comfortable 'Q-Car' would get the Model S.
Those whose concerns were more toward affordability than concepts of 'status' would get the Model 3. And those who bought the more expensive car would somehow manage to convince themselves it was 'worth it', for whatever reason, ranging from from 'exclusivity' to 'class'. While those who bought the 'more affordable' car would find a benefit in brand association with the flagship vehicle. And all should accept the natural fact that Model S was never meant to be a mass market car, while the Model 3 was conceived as such from the outset.
Tesla is not a luxury car company. They don't build 'luxury' cars -- vehicles that put marketing concepts such as heritage, history, craftsmanship, status, tradition, exclusivity, etc. at the fore of all considerations. Tesla builds expensive performance economy cars. They cost a lot to buy, they are fun to drive, and they don't burn any gas. None of the cars they compete against currently can match that, making them unique.
Quite a few detractors have claimed the Model S was rather substandard in features, styling, and creature comforts as compared to similarly priced 'luxury' vehicles. So what? The Model S has consistently outsold most of those cars for four calendar years straight. Maybe that stuff, which is naught more than window dressing in my opinion, is not all that important anyway.
The claim is that Tesla would sell 'more cars' if they catered to the expectations of the market segment with a more studiously crafted luxury oriented interior filled with the sort of stuff you find adorning competitors' cars. The numbers show another tale though, as Model S has outsold multiple flagship vehicles from traditional automobile manufacturers for years on end.
Some of these complaints have gone so far as to claim the Model S interior quality is surpassed by that of any given Kia product. But strangely, those same people cannot imagine how Tesla will be able to offer a car with the same level of 'luxury' features at a lower price. And let's be clear here, they are ALWAYS talking about features that are Customer Facing, that which is seen, and touched, and felt when they speak of quality or fit & finish. Window dressing. They are somehow convinced that is what really matters most, and that since Tesla has been, in their opinion, substandard in their high end offerings, they won't be able to match even that level of 'quality' in their less expensive Model 3.
I think that entire line of thought is completely wrong. The Model 3 interior will not mimic interiors from BMW, AUDI, Jaguar, Lexus, or Mercedes-Benz. I see that as a good thing, because those are all boring and commonplace. And none of those competitors' cars will be able to withstand the onslaught of sales interest the Model 3 generates. Their sales will go down the drain while Tesla's continue to climb. Because when it comes right down to it? It is the driving experience, the engineering of the car itself, that matters most, not the window dressing.
'All aboard for fun time!' -- Iggy Pop
'significantly new'
and
'consumer facing'
So, what is seen by Consumers is likely to be familiar to those who have seen and driven the Model S or Model X. You know what? That's OK. Perfectly fine. Because those vehicles are frickin' AWESOME.
I am genuinely surprised that so many have been dismayed by this revelation. I had understood from the outset that the Tesla Generation III vehicles would be a new platform. Meaning the 'bones' of the car, the engineering of it, from the ground up, would be an entirely new iteration of Tesla's electric vehicle technology. That it would seamlessly integrate everything Tesla had learned to that point and refine it to create the best possible affordable vehicles for mass production.
From my point of view, I thought both Elon Musk and JB Straubel had been clear about their intent. The Model 3 would be placed against the BMW 3-Series. As such, it would occupy a similar position within the Tesla product line. People who wanted a larger, more luxurious and comfortable 'Q-Car' would get the Model S.
Those whose concerns were more toward affordability than concepts of 'status' would get the Model 3. And those who bought the more expensive car would somehow manage to convince themselves it was 'worth it', for whatever reason, ranging from from 'exclusivity' to 'class'. While those who bought the 'more affordable' car would find a benefit in brand association with the flagship vehicle. And all should accept the natural fact that Model S was never meant to be a mass market car, while the Model 3 was conceived as such from the outset.
Tesla is not a luxury car company. They don't build 'luxury' cars -- vehicles that put marketing concepts such as heritage, history, craftsmanship, status, tradition, exclusivity, etc. at the fore of all considerations. Tesla builds expensive performance economy cars. They cost a lot to buy, they are fun to drive, and they don't burn any gas. None of the cars they compete against currently can match that, making them unique.
Quite a few detractors have claimed the Model S was rather substandard in features, styling, and creature comforts as compared to similarly priced 'luxury' vehicles. So what? The Model S has consistently outsold most of those cars for four calendar years straight. Maybe that stuff, which is naught more than window dressing in my opinion, is not all that important anyway.
The claim is that Tesla would sell 'more cars' if they catered to the expectations of the market segment with a more studiously crafted luxury oriented interior filled with the sort of stuff you find adorning competitors' cars. The numbers show another tale though, as Model S has outsold multiple flagship vehicles from traditional automobile manufacturers for years on end.
Some of these complaints have gone so far as to claim the Model S interior quality is surpassed by that of any given Kia product. But strangely, those same people cannot imagine how Tesla will be able to offer a car with the same level of 'luxury' features at a lower price. And let's be clear here, they are ALWAYS talking about features that are Customer Facing, that which is seen, and touched, and felt when they speak of quality or fit & finish. Window dressing. They are somehow convinced that is what really matters most, and that since Tesla has been, in their opinion, substandard in their high end offerings, they won't be able to match even that level of 'quality' in their less expensive Model 3.
I think that entire line of thought is completely wrong. The Model 3 interior will not mimic interiors from BMW, AUDI, Jaguar, Lexus, or Mercedes-Benz. I see that as a good thing, because those are all boring and commonplace. And none of those competitors' cars will be able to withstand the onslaught of sales interest the Model 3 generates. Their sales will go down the drain while Tesla's continue to climb. Because when it comes right down to it? It is the driving experience, the engineering of the car itself, that matters most, not the window dressing.
'All aboard for fun time!' -- Iggy Pop
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
I expect that Tesla Model ☰ will be on the 'good' side of the divide. For my consideration, anyway. Those who have become accustomed to 'good' only meaning a throwback design that hearkens to the days of horse drawn carriages will certainly disagree when it comes to 'coachwork' used in modern vehicles.
I realize this is a joke, but it's one I firmly believe is true. That's why I make comparisons relative to architecture, such as Victorian Era versus Mid-Century Modern. I love that the same can be applied to the aesthetics of furniture from those periods.Of course nobody would make that mistake... but mostly because, somewhere along the line, someone decided that "luxury" and "gaudy mess" were synonyms and people went along with it.
N5329K
Active Member
Yes, that makes perfect sense. Now substitute the word "taxi" for "Model 3." Does it still make sense?
Robin
Robin
