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We're drifting off topic from the interior consumer-facing technology discussion again, but let me quickly say this:
Owning and having driven two Tesla vehicles for 4 total vehicle-years, I can say that "built like a jet" is not my experience. I love Tesla, the cars, and the mission, but that doesn't blind me to their dire need for build and materials quality improvements.
I have a feeling their pristine customer satisfaction record is gong to take a hit with Model 3.
You don't drive a sofa. A chair has one purpose, and that is sitting. If you put a nice leather sofa chair in a cheap car, sure the sitting aspect will be luxurious, but that does not make the whole car luxurious because one expects a luxurious interface with the car.
People expect to be pampered in a luxurious environment. That means being rich in well-designed features, functionality, comfort, and convenience that serve the purpose of the product. Model 3 may have beautiful seats and a nice-looking dash (well as nice as a long blank strip of nothingness can look), but it lacks the other points I keyed in on.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
May I ask... What is the impetus for the 'dire need'...?
- Is it an issue of reputation or perception at stake?
- And, what precise nature of 'quality' do you refer?
- Is there a desperate need to eliminate squeaks, rattles, or overall shabbiness?
- Is there particular method of building that is more preferred?
- What materials would be an improvement from both an engineering and an aesthetic perspective?
- Why bother with any of it?
- Will Tesla's Sales suddenly falter and fade if this is not done before established traditional automobile manufacturers finally manage to 'get their act together' and produce viable long range electric cars using their own storied expertise in competitive quantities?
Again, we're off topic, but since you addressed me directly, I'll respond.
As a Tesla supporter, I would like to see them be the best they can be. They are currently a very good electric car manufacturer in an industry where there is little to no competition. That means they're technically the best. I am hopeful, however, that there is a lot of competition in the coming years, and I'd like very much if the embodiment of the impetus for the electric car movement (Tesla) remains at the top of the list. The best way to stay on top is to keep your lead.
Is it an issue of reputation? Yes. That's certainly part of it, because reputation drives sales. Quality means exactly what it means in any aspect of life. When I build something at home, I do my best to be able to take pride in my work, even if I'm the only one who's going to see it. If I hoe a garden row that's crooked, I'm going to straighten it before planting. I'd still grow a healthy garden with the crooked row, but I'll have to look at it all season, paying the price for one day's inattention or laziness.
Surely you've heard the phrase, "How you do anything is how you do everything." I like that attitude towards care in one's undertakings in life. Your bullet points suggest that you agree there's a lack of care but that it's not worth the bother because of the lack of competition. That's counterintuitive to how many of us live our lives, and I don't think it speaks to "excellence" as a goal.
You seem to want specifics, as if you don't frequent these forums enough to know what they are. I'll provide a few. Panel alignment isn't my biggest personal beef, but it was pretty terrible on my Model S and worse on my Model X. I haven't documented all of the issues with my X, but I've got a few threads going over some of them. A few examples at delivery: carpet bunched up and glued with lumps, weatherstripping missing, falcon wing door misalignment (closure issues), alcantara headliner overlapping and crooked. And it continued - weatherstripping peeling away after a few weeks of ownership, falcon wing door falling on its own (still not fixed, btw). Lots of wind noise at the driver's side window, even after one quarter window replacement. Months in service. These are costly to Tesla and they're a poor customer experience. Many people have lemon lawed their Model Xs and I know of a few that were bought back without the proceedings. I chose to avoid that route for better or worse.
My Model S hasn't been quite as extreme - rattling, a single drive unit replacement, pano roof problems. Interior pieces like the pano roof bar have fallen off because the clips aren't of high quality. My S was delivered with alcantara strips dangling from the pano roof. Currently I have the pano roof thump/rattle and haven't dealt with it.
Quality doesn't mean features to me. Quality means paying attention and caring about one's craft. I give Tesla leeway as a newer manufacturer - after all, I've purchased two vehicles from them within three years. But that doesn't mean I'm blind to their deficiencies.
Wolverinegeoff
Member
I'm hopeful that their access to more high quality suppliers will help alleviate some of these issues going forward. All of those are unacceptable in isolation, so I imagine they drove you crazy when all experienced on the same car. Didn't the factory workers pay attention in kindergarten cutting/gluing lessons? I wonder if decreased human interaction in the factory process will also help, as that seemed to be a big goal this time around. Silly humans are always screwing something up...
To get back to "no new consumer facing technology in the Model 3"...
The new photos of two different Model 3 "release candidates" (my guess) as shown at Tesla Model 3 release candidate spied, looks more like a Model S and on other sites now offer two fuzzy photos of the interior showing the center display screen. No detectable change from the 2016 prototype cars, in my opinion. Unfortunately no useful image of the steering wheel in those cars.
The new photos of two different Model 3 "release candidates" (my guess) as shown at Tesla Model 3 release candidate spied, looks more like a Model S and on other sites now offer two fuzzy photos of the interior showing the center display screen. No detectable change from the 2016 prototype cars, in my opinion. Unfortunately no useful image of the steering wheel in those cars.
If the Model X mule sighting precedent is anything to go by, the interior we see in these cars is the final interior. A panel may be missing here or there, or the cars may have some things not shipping as final (e.g. some extra sensor being tested for future or not making the cut), but overall - unless something changes relative to history - this is what we are getting.
FloridaGary
Member
Hopefully no tech was dropped due to offering a larger battery. If anything, any planned tech could have gone from standard to an option. I think there are many of us who would pay for additional tech in their Model 3.
Why, they dropped everything floating around in the imaginations of enthusiasts!
melindav
☰ 2018
Wolverinegeoff
Member
Yeah I was really hoping for a Rocket League-esque "Jump" function to get over slow cars in traffic. Damn you, Elon!!!
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
I decided to check the Features Listing for one of the Model ☰ competitors, the Lexus IS, because it is among the more 'luxury' oriented brands. Here's what they chose to focus upon:
I don't see anything there that I would expect to be curiously or conspicuously 'missing' from the Model ☰. In fact, I don't see much worth noting as a 'feature' at all. Do you guys?
Paddle-Shift Transmissions -- Advanced paddle-shift transmissions put the exhilarating performance of the IS models at your fingertips.
The 2017 IS Line -- The boldly restyled IS line not only turns heads on the road, it even refuses to go unnoticed while parked.
All-Weather Drive -- Standard on the IS 300 and available on the IS 350, all-wheel drive helps provide enhanced traction and control.
Lexus Safety System+ -- With the most comprehensive safety system ever offered on the IS, security comes standard.
10.3-inch Multimedia Display -- The new, larger 10.3-inch display makes everything from the Lexus Enform App Suite to the full-screen navigation map, a stunning viewing experience.
Performance Driving Modes -- Customize your dose of adrenaline. Drive Mode Select enables you to make your IS more responsive or efficient with a simple turn of a dial.
F Sport Performance -- Exclusive F SPORT features take the thrilling performance of the IS to the next level.
Lexus Enform -- With Lexus Enform, peace of mind, convenience and entertainment are always within reach.
Touch-based Climate Controls -- Change the cabin temperature with a swipe of your finger.
F Sport Styling -- Aggressively restyled, the IS F SPORT is designed to stimulate the senses, inside and out.
Supercar Instrumentation -- The customizable digital instrument cluster in the IS F SPORT models was inspired by the LFA supercar.
Headlamp Design -- New LED headlamps feature intelligent high beams, maximizing illumination of the road ahead.
Exceptional Service Experience -- At Lexus, service is more than just taking care of your vehicle. It's making sure you're taken care of throughout the entire ownership experience.
The 2017 IS Line -- The boldly restyled IS line not only turns heads on the road, it even refuses to go unnoticed while parked.
All-Weather Drive -- Standard on the IS 300 and available on the IS 350, all-wheel drive helps provide enhanced traction and control.
Lexus Safety System+ -- With the most comprehensive safety system ever offered on the IS, security comes standard.
10.3-inch Multimedia Display -- The new, larger 10.3-inch display makes everything from the Lexus Enform App Suite to the full-screen navigation map, a stunning viewing experience.
Performance Driving Modes -- Customize your dose of adrenaline. Drive Mode Select enables you to make your IS more responsive or efficient with a simple turn of a dial.
F Sport Performance -- Exclusive F SPORT features take the thrilling performance of the IS to the next level.
Lexus Enform -- With Lexus Enform, peace of mind, convenience and entertainment are always within reach.
Touch-based Climate Controls -- Change the cabin temperature with a swipe of your finger.
F Sport Styling -- Aggressively restyled, the IS F SPORT is designed to stimulate the senses, inside and out.
Supercar Instrumentation -- The customizable digital instrument cluster in the IS F SPORT models was inspired by the LFA supercar.
Headlamp Design -- New LED headlamps feature intelligent high beams, maximizing illumination of the road ahead.
Exceptional Service Experience -- At Lexus, service is more than just taking care of your vehicle. It's making sure you're taken care of throughout the entire ownership experience.
I don't see anything there that I would expect to be curiously or conspicuously 'missing' from the Model ☰. In fact, I don't see much worth noting as a 'feature' at all. Do you guys?
Wolverinegeoff
Member
Their marketing team uses great adjectives. "Thrilling, aggressive, boldly, exhilarating, comprehensive" I bet they get paid a lot!
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
The Standard Features for the Mercedes-Benz C300 Sedan are broken up into different categories:
Yet again, this seems to be an artificially long list. Some of the same features are listed multiple times, using different words. They just seem to enjoy repeating themselves in order to make sure certain points are not missed. Aside from ICE specific items, I again don't see anything listed that would be a deal breaker for me if it were somehow 'missing' from Model ☰. But it is rather strange that they go out of their way to mention seat belts, air bags, and ABS... It's not as if there are any competitors that don't also include those 'features' as standard.
Performance & Handling
Design
Safety
Comfort & Convenience
Audio & Entertainment
- 2.0L inline-4 turbo engine
- ECO Start/Stop system
- 7G-TRONIC automatic transmission with shift paddles
- DYNAMIC SELECT
- 4-wheel multilink Suspension
- Agility Control
- Torque Vectoring Brake
Design
- Aggressively elegant design
- Sport styling
- Stunningly stylish cabin
- 17-inch split 5-poke wheels
- Multifunction steering wheel
- Natural Grain Brown Ash wood trim
Safety
- COLLISION PREVENTION ASSIST PLUS
- ATTENTION ASSIST
- LED Daytime Running Lamps
- Crosswind Assist
- Rearview camera
- PRE-SAFE
- Seat belt technology
- 9 air bags
- Adaptive braking technology
- Antilock Braking System (ABS)
- Brake Assist (BAS)
- Electronic Stability Program (ESP)
- Aluminumand high-strength steel body structure
- Advanced Tire Pressure Monitoring System
- SmartKey with KEYLESS-START
- Antitheft alarm system with remote panic feature
- Rain-sensing windshield wipers
Comfort & Convenience
- Power front seats with driver-seat memory
- Dual-zone automatic climate control
- 5 years of Mercedes-Benz mbrace Connect
- Remote Start via mbrace Mobile App
- Seat belt presenters
- 40/20/40 split-folding rear seats
- Power-folding side mirrors
- KEYLESS-START
- Illuminated entry system
- HomeLink garage door opener
- Brake HOLD feature
Audio & Entertainment
- Dual high-resolution screens
- Central controller
- FrontBass system
- Bluetooth audio streaming
- Dual USB audio ports
- HD Radio receiver
- Hands-free Bluetooth interface
- SD card reader
Yet again, this seems to be an artificially long list. Some of the same features are listed multiple times, using different words. They just seem to enjoy repeating themselves in order to make sure certain points are not missed. Aside from ICE specific items, I again don't see anything listed that would be a deal breaker for me if it were somehow 'missing' from Model ☰. But it is rather strange that they go out of their way to mention seat belts, air bags, and ABS... It's not as if there are any competitors that don't also include those 'features' as standard.
Reciprocity
Active Member
I stopped reading or caring at this point. The Lexus IS is not a fully electric car with great range and the ability to fuel up at home.
I think what people need to understand, and its very simple. If the model 3 is not profitable, Tesla is done. Period. The party is over. Because they have spent so much in Capex to build out Gigafactory1 to make the Model 3 possible. Profitable means some features that fanbois think are must haves are not really all that necessary. Tesla is not in the business of providing you with what you want, they are working to transition to all renewable energy and focusing on trying to take down the 2 biggest uses of that energy for people.. Solar + Battery and Car + Battery. Any of this other minutia is meaningless. Paddle shifters? really? What exactly does All weather drive have over the torque control from the electric motor?
When ever you try to think about what Tesla is doing, they are first and foremost trying to survive to the next step. There is no true competition yet, so you wont see them reaching to try to beat something that doesnt yet exist. When there is an awesome electric Lexus IS then maybe. Right now its the fugly Bolt and that's about it.
My guess is that by the end of 2018 they will have some type of refresh on the interior to help broaden the appeals. I think they will do the same with S/X by the end of this year to help better differentiate between 3 and S and help them better compete with the higher end S clash and 7 Series and what ever the big Lexus is.
