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Elon & Twitter

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The issue isn't Sen Markey or anyone to whom Elon tweets a response. It's Elon's responses themselves. There's a smart and clever way to respond, and there's a juvenile way. We see too many of the latter. And it's this behavior, accumlated over time, that reflects negatively on Elon and thus Tesla's brand.
I'm sure you are right, for some percentage of readers of Elon's tweets, who are a small percentage of Tesla's market (according to anecdotes here). However, I agree with @Krugerrand that the "juvenile" or mistaken tweets actually endear Elon to other readers. They show that he is a plainspoken, brutally honest, authentic flawed human, not the usual slick salesman or politician who says what he thinks you want to hear. Some readers identify with that and appreciate it.

Is he hurting Tesla's brand? Hard to say right now, when the cars are selling like hot-crack. I think the important question is: Is the net effect of Elon's tweets negative? I see no evidence of that yet.

I don’t trust salesmen. Their livelihood depends on me buying something, so naturally they’re going to want to sell me something, and in many cases something I don’t need or want.

You know who else are salesmen? Everyone on WallStreet. First they sell you what they want you to buy, but then they sell you what they want you to sell. Tricky buggers!

Just yesterday I heard my first Christian Financial Adviser ad on the radio. I had no idea that God wanted me to diversify in these tough economical times, but apparently he does. God’s got a whole slew of salesmen working for him and they don’t just work on Sundays.

You know who else are salesmen? Everyone in finance. Everyone in media, TV, radio, every You Tuber, Influencer, and dude/dudette with a Patreon account. Every CEO of every company; Barra, Farley, Diess before he lost his job, Bezos, Zuckerburg, and let’s not forget our favorite Trevor Milton. Sandy Munro is a salesman, Rob, Gali, SMR, Chicken, Troy, the list is endless.

Heck, my neighbor’s a salesman according to the for sale sign in the window of his 1980 something pickup at the end of his driveway, but realistically there’s just not much foot traffic up on The Mountain so that sucker will likely sit there for another 20 years. Nature is doing a good job of reclaiming it. The pine growing up through the passenger side is 6” in diameter now.

My favorite salesman is one that acknowledges my presence when I walk into an establishment and then ***** ***, but not too much in case I have a question. If I do have a question, I just want the truth. If that takes more than a single, simple sentence (basically three words or less ie., See Spot run) I walk, even if I really want the item. I’ll sacrifice for a teaching moment then drive to the next town and try again. Truth.

Mostly, I’ve already done my research before I buy so don’t need a salesman. A lot of times I know more than the salesman about the product I want. There’s a lot of nuance in underwear and snowblowers and I’d rather learn in the comfort of my home. Basically, it really boils down to the product needing to sell itself to get me to buy. Nothing more annoying than your underwear crawling up your butt while blowing snow. It’s an hour long process getting things righted.

What’s my point besides I don’t trust salesmen? Patience. I’m getting to it.

Your *profession* is as a salesman and you feel there are certain rules to abide by within that profession. (I also think rules should be viewed more like loose guidelines and that many times the rules are made to be broken, but that’s a different post.) However, we’re all salesmen in one form or another and we don’t abide by the rules of the trade in executing our sale - including Elon Musk.

You just tried to sell us a story in your post that Elon is a *professional* salesman, therefore he must follow the Salesmen’s Handbook Of Rules And Conduct or risk losing customers. He is not, does not consciously try to be, and as you’ve clearly argued he actually sucks at it.

What he does try to sell us is a personal narrative of what mankind needs to do to live long and prosper based on what he sees happening and that requires him to break every rule that’s ever existed to get us to buy it. That is a big distinction for me. Why? In no particular order: Money honesty. Unabashed openness. Thinking out loud. Willingness to make mistakes and be wrong. Stand in the face of fire. Unwavering love for mankind. I trust Elon for being/doing all those things and many more, none of which are deemed positive traits in a professional salesmen.

I understand from your professional salesman’s view he’s risked and continues to risk losing customers of his products and has lost customers. I’m telling you, there is no other way than to bash us all upside the head. We will not transition if he coddles us, holds our hands, or pussy foots around. He’s going to have to drag us kicking and screaming. A lost customer to Tesla because someone got their undies in a wad over a political opinion of 140 characters or less will be a customer for Rivian, or Lucid, or BYD, whomever manages to survive - and that’s okay. IT’S OKAY. How many times people have confidently announced Tesla can’t do it all, to turn around and complain because Tesla lost a customer in their third cousin twice removed through marriage is absurd, illogical, mushy brain stuff.

It’s okay. Direct those family and friends and neighbors and colleagues to another EV, to another EV stock. Stop complaining about Elon Musk and what he’s doing or not doing to your satisfaction.

Go be a salesman for human kind!
 
I'm sure you are right, for some percentage of readers of Elon's tweets, who are a small percentage of Tesla's market (according to anecdotes here). However, I agree with @Krugerrand that the "juvenile" or mistaken tweets actually endear Elon to other readers. They show that he is a plainspoken, brutally honest, authentic flawed human, not the usual slick salesman or politician who says what he thinks you want to hear. Some readers identify with that and appreciate it.

Is he hurting Tesla's brand? Hard to say right now, when the cars are selling like hot-crack. I think the important question is: Is the net effect of Elon's tweets negative? I see no evidence of that yet.
I’d rather be dunked on by a guy who sends rockets into space and makes badass cars than adressed by an establishment jellyfish yes man who’s usefulness stops just short of his yay or nay vote.
 
I never made the claim that twitter was previously "well policed". It wasn't. But for those who actually had the blue identity check, it WAS a reliable indicator that the account was who/what it purported to be. Over the years long before he bought Twitter there were thousands of accounts pretending to be Elon Musk and all of them had one thing in common: no blue check, while his real account did have the blue check. It was an extremely dumb idea to completely alter its meaning/purpose while leaving its appearance identical especially since it was well known that there were large numbers of imposters continuously appearing who would do everything (except get that blue check - because they couldn't) in order to scam/mislead etc.

I agree that we should give him time before passing a final judgement but I think criticism is fair when the changes he actually makes are so obviously dumb that a child could realize it would fail spectacularly. Things like firing the staff before he even knows what they do, changing the meaning of the checkmark from "verified identity" to "payment received", or even buying Twitter in the first place when you don't even know that content creators are paid rather than charged on other social media platforms are such examples worthy of criticism.
You are arguing something I didn’t dispute.

Blue checks were sporadically assigned from day 1. Influencers who have many followers didn’t get them and some people with a dozen followers did. They never really squared this up.

While the minority “Blue Check” audience was happy with that, it was nearly useless for most people.

Twitter is vastly bigger than the previous Blue Check universe and impersonating non Blue Check users was rampant.

But the whole assertion that Blue Checks offer any sort of assurance was always nonsense. Impersonation was widespread even among Blue Check users, they would just use non Checked accounts. Because the stupid check was so inconsistent, most people thought nothing of replying to non checked accounts or didn’t realize that Elon Musk without a check wasn’t actually Musk.
 
The problem with Twitter is....Keith! (aka, bots). Keith fits the profile of a bot and it somehow is the only reply I see in the feed.

And thus agree with Elon that he needs a technologist to run Twitter.

Screenshot 2022-11-13 10.25.38 AM.png


Screenshot 2022-11-13 10.31.30 AM.png
 
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The problem (for me at least) is I don't know which reports are true and which are part of the ongoing smear campaign.


And this problem will get worse. The rise of video "deepfakes" now allows anyone with cheap computer tools to make a video of you saying you ate your grandmother for breakfast, or something much more lucrative for the video creator.

I suspect that this is partly why Elon bought Twitter: to create a trustworthy platform of identity-verified speakers subject to instant and convenient fact checking by millions. I think Tesla (and civilization) needs this to avoid drowning in disinformation.
Except the reports were on twitter….oh, wait. You can’t trust twitter, either.

I’m not sure I’d trust TMZ but the reports I spoke of were well confirmed (And never denied, either.) You speak of a smear campaign. Are you saying that none of this is true? Or are you just picking and choosing which reports you like and labeling the rest as a ’smear campaign.’ That sounds a whole lot like a conspiracy theory.
 
So... Elon can't spot the bot either? Doesn't bode well.
Not yet, but I have confidence he will. Twitter hasn't implemented any advanced AI bot flamethrowers...yet.

I'd give Elon a few weeks, these aren't that difficult to make if you have the right training data, some language models and a whole lot of compute to train and then run inference predictions. 99% of these could be identified.
 
Convenient and immediate fact-checking by millions of people seems likely to inventivize verified accounts to fact-check themselves before posting


I mean, it hasn't, in the entire history of the internet....including twitter which had the feature used on Elon for years before Elon bought the company and it didn't help....

But hope springs eternal I guess?


... if you give the system more than 2 weeks to start working.

Again- the thing used to fact check him was there way before he bought the company

Like- years before he bought the company.

It is not a thing Elon added and not remotely new

There is no "two weeks" excuse to be used here.

Elon posted a grossly factually untrue claim about Twitters click generation stats, period end of sentence.


he is a plainspoken, brutally honest

Well...not about twitters ranking in click generation :)
 
Except the reports were on twitter….oh, wait. You can’t trust twitter, either.
Agreed, you can't trust Twitter. Yet. (Give it more than 2 weeks.)

I’m not sure I’d trust TMZ
The Twitter layoffs hoax was reported by many media. You can google it. The hoaxers spoke to some media reporters, then the story was repeated by many other media without verifying it, despite the hilarious names the hoaxers gave for themselves.

but the reports I spoke of were well confirmed (And never denied, either.) You speak of a smear campaign. Are you saying that none of this is true? Or are you just picking and choosing which reports you like and labeling the rest as a ’smear campaign.’
I'm saying it's difficult to know which is which, unless I spend a lot of time trying to verify claims... time I don't want to spend. I've watched many hours of Elon speaking, and read many of his writings. I think I know who the man is, and what his goals are.

That sounds a whole lot like a conspiracy theory.
The smear campaign against Elon and Tesla is not a theory, but an obvious fact. Someone here just mentioned a front-page NY Times story that smears EVs in general, and pretends that Tesla has not solved the problems it reports. The NY Times is highly dependent on advertising, including ads from legacy automakers. Tesla doesn't advertise, so the Times has little incentive to report on them accurately.

The term "conspiracy theory" is often used as a synonym for "crackpot theory," but commercial conspiracies are well-established in history. The tobacco industry conspired to suppress and sow doubt about the dangers of smoking. The oil industry conspired to sow doubt about climate change. The drug industry conspired to suppress and sow doubt about non-patentable health remedies. Such conspiracies are numerous and ongoing.
 
Markey has long-time campaign contributions from the UAW and is extremely pro-union. Suspicious . . . no?


Lol, definition of a 'good politician'? Once they're bought, they stay bought. :p

Cheers!
 
I mean, it hasn't, in the entire history of the internet....including twitter which had the feature used on Elon for years before Elon bought the company and it didn't help....
Strange, I never saw the Community Notes feature in Elon's Twitter feed until recently. Are you sure he did nothing to elevate it? Do you work at Twitter?

And it didn't help? Elon deleted his tweets about Paul Pelosi and click generation. Such tweets are a tiny percentage of what Elon, a very busy man, tweets daily.

Elon posted a grossly factually untrue claim about Twitters click generation stats, period end of sentence.
Yes we all, including Elon, got that now. How many more times will you repeat it?
 
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Strange, I never saw the Community Notes feature in Elon's Twitter feed until recently. Are you sure he did nothing to elevate it?


Are you sure he did?

Because it's been a feature in one form or another since at least 2018 that I know of, possibly longer.

The most recent, fact-check-focused, version was called Birdwatch-- code for that specific implementation first showed up in fall 2020. The pilot program launched in January 2021.

It HAS expanded since then certainly- but that was ALSO before Elon took over.

The only change there's any evidence of Elon making was reverting the name to Community Notes from Birdwatch (it was originally called that way back in the day, so even that isn't something Elon came up with)

He and twitters founder actually argued over which name is better here:

But as I say, BOTH names were used for it LONG before Elon bought the company.


That's from January 2021 mentioning both names for example.



Do you work at Twitter?

Nobody does except Elon anymore, hadn't you heard? :)
 
Someone here just mentioned a front-page NY Times story that smears EVs in general
I just read that article - it’s completely accurate. And yeah, I think your ‘smear campaign’ is a conspiracy theory. Just like every conspiracy is an obvious fact to the conspiracy theorists.

What’s more obvious is how Elon’s actions with twitter lack any sort of rational method.
 
Sounds like you've been reading the smear campaign in mainstream media, an industry that Elon is disrupting.

Elon's response wasn't actually to this tweet. Took me a second to figure this out, but I noticed that he was replying to @washingtonpost as well, which wasn't in the original message.

It's actually this (apologies, I don't know how to embed a tweet here).

View attachment 874189
Oh good. Let's insult more majority politicians. What could go wrong?
 
I'm sure you are right, for some percentage of readers of Elon's tweets, who are a small percentage of Tesla's market (according to anecdotes here). However, I agree with @Krugerrand that the "juvenile" or mistaken tweets actually endear Elon to other readers. They show that he is a plainspoken, brutally honest, authentic flawed human, not the usual slick salesman or politician who says what he thinks you want to hear. Some readers identify with that and appreciate it.

Is he hurting Tesla's brand? Hard to say right now, when the cars are selling like hot-crack. I think the important question is: Is the net effect of Elon's tweets negative? I see no evidence of that yet.
So what evidence would you consider valid? What about a ton of people, including a large number of people who used to support Elon, criticizing him on both Twitter and on a forum started to support Tesla? There is evidence of demand weakening, such as price drops and order dates getting moved up significantly, including my own. Do you need conclusive evidence of a result of an action before you judge that action, or can you use logical reasoning to judge that action? Further, a smart and clever response would be one that garners the support of 90% of people, rather than one that appeals to 20% but turns off 50%. People who eternally support Elon are always moving the goalpost.
 
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