Elon & Twitter

[Tiger]

We kinda have Elon's own personal tweets pushing conspiracy theories, threatening nuclear war against advertisers, and confessing that he had absolutely no idea that if he sold badges for $8 people might abuse them in the name of "free speech" which he then decided he doesn't believe in after being an absolutist on the topic as his whole reason for buying twitter in the first place.

Did I miss anything?

You are misrepresenting what Elon said. Elon said it can be better, and they are working on it. It's not like they cannot use AI to detect fake faces and fake logos etc. better than a human can. Patience, even Rome wasn't built in a day. Yes, Elon has the audacity to attempt it, but audacity is what separates doers from whiners.

Whiners do, however, have a natural born knack for quality assurance and risk management, I do give them that. So let's do this together, Elon pushing forward and us whiners assuring the quality.

 

[Dave EV]

It only requires giving everyone a chance to speak.

Well - as long as you pony up $8/mo you'll get your chance (this still completely ignores the fact that some voices on Twitter are much louder than others - and that Twitter Blue has been suspended due to huge amounts of fraud).

Like with a lot of successful people, it seems that past successes have made them overconfident, even in their opinions about subjects outside of their specialties. They spend too much time opining rather than inquiring. The way Elon has handled the current Twitter situation resembles their attitudes.

Hmm, where have I seen this before - Dunning-Kruger in effect? It's definitely an issue that Elon has surrounded himself with yes-men - both in real life and online...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1591138316862488578

 

[eisa01]

Why is he blaming the media? Most of the criticism I read is on here, other thoughtful forums, and twitter itself. Including his own tweets.

 

[Tiger]

this still completely ignores the fact that some voices on Twitter are much louder than others

What do you mean by this?

 

[Dave EV]

What do you mean by this?

The size of your voice is pretty much directly correlated with how many followers you have.

Me posting something on Twitter means a LOT less than what Elon posts, for example, simply because of the number of people who are likely to see it.

 

[eisa01]

Why is he blaming the media? Most of the criticism I read is on here, other thoughtful forums, and twitter itself. Including his own tweets.

Case in point:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1591698385824018433

 

[Tiger]

The size of your voice is pretty much directly correlated with how many followers you have.

Me posting something on Twitter means a LOT less than what Elon posts, for example, simply because of the number of people who are likely to see it.

Without that feature Twitter would be no different from the TMC forum.

 

[Knightshade]

What do you know about what he looked into and what he didn't and where he sees "first principles" potential and where not?

I know he made an easily verified (or not) claim about the company he boughts rankings among sites in driving clicks.

And that claim is grossly false

Not like "Well, sometimes it's #1 and sometimes #2...." but like "It's not even in the top 10"

If you buy something for 44 billion you ought to have some vague idea how popular it actually is, or what its actual usage stats are.

You ought to know that (since it's easy info to find in public):

Before you even make an offer
Certainly before you sign merger papers
Certainly LONG before you actually pay 44B for the the thing
And sure as hell a week or two after you're actually running the company and had access to internal #s that confirm all the externally available stats.


Instead Elon just made an hilariously ridiculous, untrue, claim about twitters use rank because EITHER:

He's dishonest (I don't think that's actually true BTW)

OR

He hasn't bothered to check anything he "believes" about twitters actual measurable performance or business (which seems to have been true throughout this entire Circus.... he personally finds twitter cool so he's sure it's the best and most used thing, despite literally all evidence he couldn't be bothered to check showing it's not)



But by all means, if you have an explanation for his claim that is not either of those- let's see it.



None of this has anything to do with the other 90% of your posts about how the media hates him or what he imagines some future might be.

HE made this claim- not "the media". And it is about twitters business right now. Not "the future"

It's not remotely true though.


Even TWITTER knows it's not remotely true as noted below, first by eisa01:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1591698385824018433

 

[ZsoZso]

I agree that Elon's track record with running companies should earn him a little benefit of the doubt. But @Knightshade claims that this company is fundamentally different from all his others (including PayPal?) because it deals with human behavior, not physics and engineering (Tesla customers are not human? No engineers at Twitter?) and human behavior has no scientific laws that Elon can use to achieve his goal (Skinner's laws are not scientific?). So there: Elon's genius has clearly vanished or turned to insanity.

Maybe it has, but I'm willing to reserve judgment for more than 2 weeks before posting that assertion over and over. Good luck getting our resident Elon-haters to do that.

Elon has a great track record of running companies, that is true. However, the fundamental reason he is so great at running Tesla and SpaceX is because he understands the underlying technology and products and not just focused on the business aspect like many other CEOs (who only have business schools and no engineering background). He can run those companies so well because he understands the core technology of them so well, thus he can make them lean because he knows what can be cut off without hurting the products and what optimizations can work.

On the other hand, Twitter is a social media company. The main focus is something where Elon is uniquely disadvantaged due to his Asperger's. He is simply incapable to understand the core of this business due to his medical condition. Sure, he can manage software developers, but that is not enough. He is no better (and probably worse) running this business than any pure business major CEO with no understanding of the product / technology of the company.

Sure, you can cut him slack if you look at this endeavor as a billionaire's luxury spending -- he is not buying luxury yachts and exotic islands, but spends his money on Twitter because that's his "hobby". Fine, but you guys keep pretending that this is his next 69D chess move to lead humanity to salvation after fixing climate change and making human civilization multi-planetary (nevermind that those goals have been shoved aside unsolved as he shifted focus to Twitter). And you call anyone Elon-hater who does not cheer him on this saga. IMHO, he is a genius engineer who has demonstrated that he is second to none when it comes to running technology companies such as Tesla and SpaceX, and I wish he would continue focusing on those (Boring, Neuralink, OpenAI also fits the bill) instead of turning into social media mogul and political influencer.

 

[JRP3]

Just shut up and let him kick some butt, there's going to be blood.

Some people seem to forget this is a discussion board. If we "just shut up" you'll be staring at a blank screen. Besides so far the only "butt kicking" going on is his own.

 

[PeterJA]

Well - as long as you pony up $8/mo you'll get your chance [to speak]...

This is incorrect. The plan is to charge $8 (instead of thousands) for a mark showing your identity is verified, but everyone can still use Twitter for free if desired.

It's definitely an issue that Elon has surrounded himself with yes-men - both in real life and online...

Sandy Munro did a video about his visit to SpaceX. He said he observed a meeting of Elon and his engineers. Elon suggested an idea, and others explained why it wouldn't work. Elon said okay you're right. Sandy was flabbergasted by this. In all his years of corporate experience, he'd never seen employees tell the CEO no, you're wrong. Such behavior would get them fired at most companies.

No, Elon has not surrounded himself with yes-men.

 

[Matias]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1591814408862404608

 

[Matias]

Sure its possible. But I don't know enough to agree "things are not currently going well with Twitter", for two reasons:

1) I haven't read the stories of "chaos" in mainstream media that want Elon's plan to fail. I don't trust them and don't care about early growing pains.

Ok. You're saying that you don't follow the news and you base your reasoning to it. Got it.

 

[PeterJA]

Elon has a great track record of running companies, that is true. However, the fundamental reason he is so great at running Tesla and SpaceX is because he understands the underlying technology and products and not just focused on the business aspect like many other CEOs (who only have business schools and no engineering background). He can run those companies so well because he understands the core technology of them so well, thus he can make them lean because he knows what can be cut off without hurting the products and what optimizations can work.

On the other hand, Twitter is a social media company. The main focus is something where Elon is uniquely disadvantaged due to his Asperger's. He is simply incapable to understand the core of this business due to his medical condition. Sure, he can manage software developers, but that is not enough. He is no better (and probably worse) running this business than any pure business major CEO with no understanding of the product / technology of the company.

Sure, you can cut him slack if you look at this endeavor as a billionaire's luxury spending -- he is not buying luxury yachts and exotic islands, but spends his money on Twitter because that's his "hobby". Fine, but you guys keep pretending that this is his next 69D chess move to lead humanity to salvation after fixing climate change and making human civilization multi-planetary (nevermind that those goals have been shoved aside unsolved as he shifted focus to Twitter). And you call anyone Elon-hater who does not cheer him on this saga. IMHO, he is a genius engineer who has demonstrated that he is second to none when it comes to running technology companies such as Tesla and SpaceX, and I wish he would continue focusing on those (Boring, Neuralink, OpenAI also fits the bill) instead of turning into social media mogul and political influencer.

Here again we have a critic (okay, I won't call you an Elon-hater) opining on what Elon can never do, before giving the man a reasonable chance to do it.

Elon understands very well how to manage human behavior with incentives (reward and punishment). His understanding has created corporate cultures at Tesla and SpaceX that makes them the most desired employers by young engineers and the most successful companies in their industries. The claim that Elon's understanding of employee behavior does not transfer to non-employees (customers and social media users) seems speculative and contrary to available evidence.

Clearly Elon and his Twitter team did not expect the enormous attack of fraudulent accounts in his first two weeks. But they are working on stronger verification methods. I say give them a chance.

I also think many folks underestimate the power of technology to influence human behavior. Folks here posted the Twitter fact-check of an Elon post as evidence of Elon's ineptitude. Actually, it is exactly what Elon intends to happen on Twitter. That part of the system is already working.

 

[JRP3]

That part of the system is already working.

Which was in place before Elon bought it.

 

[Ipcress]

I guess what troubles me the most about Elon’s alignment with the far right wing—the election deniers & MAGA, the Pelosi, Hitler and other unhinged tweets and re-tweets; the chaotic purchase of Twitter and callous, possibly illegal firing of half the staff; the pro-Russian diplomatic tweets and flip-flop over Ukraine, is that it has forced me to face the fact that Elon Musk is not the person I thought he was.

What happened to the thoughtful, informed person who warned the world against the dangers of AI; who wrote successful “Secret Plans 1 & 2” to decarbonize and save the planet? The scrappy, determined engineer who built Tesla and pushed the world irreversibly past the tipping point to adopt EVs and launched practical mass scale energy storage systems, not to mention the perseverance and genius of the SpaceX achievements? He is so thoughtful a speaker when interviewed and during Tesla events—what dark thing happens to him when he tweets? Is he Twitter addicted (which was reasonably suggested in the Times today by Jaron Lanier)?

FSD, self-driving taxis and semis, when successful, will result in massive dislocation of national and global workforces—unless reasonable economic and political solutions are developed. I had trusted Elon to help muster the political creativity and leadership to help solve the problems. It is now clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that this will not happen. The one-half of all Twitter employees he carelessly, brutally, fired can now testify to this.

If the Twitter purchase and other fiasco episodes represents his political skills and forethought, I fear for the future of his other initiatives. The ethical implications of Neuralink’s brain implants are profound, not just for our country but in those with more repressive governments. Twitter, Starlink, Starship—these are all world-changing technologies at the command of a thin-skinned personality who angers easily and lashes out at personal slights. He is throwing away the trust and goodwill of people he will need in the future to achieve these goals—when lost it is difficult to earn back. Does He think that the politicians he supports at the moment will always be in power?

Mixed into all this is, of course, my own investment concerns. Like many of us, as an early Tesla investor, TSLA has been important for me and my family. I thrilled to all the advances and successes over the years and held fast during many difficult periods. I recently bought a Tesla Model Y—my first new car. I am sad that now, Elon, at the beginning of brilliant success in so many areas and whom I have admired for so long, seems to be losing hold of his humanity. He is turning people, future customers, investors, and politicians who’s support he will need now and in the future into Tesla haters--needlessly.

I don’t have any answers, and I’m not sure what I will do. Watchful waiting? The polarization of Elon’s political involvements has sadly affected TMC and makes it harder to read the forums—a real lifeline during the dark days of Covid. This is a tough post to write. Very tough.

 

[Knightshade]

Here again we have a critic (okay, I won't call you an Elon-hater) opining on what Elon can never do, before giving the man a reasonable chance to do it.

Here again we have...you... opining on things somebody never said and then knocking down the strawman of your own creation.

The word "never" does not appear in the post to which you are replying, for example.

Instead he's pointing out (and he's hardly the first, even in this thread) that Elon is, unlike his other engineer-tech focused companies, NOT uniquely suited to excel at this particular task as he is with those- so using them as "evidence" he'll be awesome here makes little sense.

I also think many folks underestimate the power of technology to influence human behavior. Folks here posted the Twitter fact-check of an Elon post as evidence of Elon's ineptitude. Actually, it is exactly what Elon intends to happen on Twitter. That part of the system is already working.

So your theory is he's intentionally (ie "intends") posting grossly untrue things as fact as some kind of 69D chess move to prove fact checking (using a system that was there before Elon bought the company) works?

Wow. Rose don't begin to describe the color of your glasses!

 

[sleepydoc]

44B impulse-buy? I think Elon put a whole lot of thought into it, but he's going to be stretched a bit thinner for a while. I think that may have been the root of his 'second thoughts', though that could have been a price-reduction ruse too.

4D Chess. Don't forget what he's accomplished. Twitter is EasyMode™ for Elon but there's real utility there too, as explained.

I'd love to hear a different explanation of his actions. He claims Twitter's overrun by bots and he and fix it. Makes an offer without doing due diligence then immediately tries to back out based on other claims but is unable to because he put no conditions in the contract he signed. Any rational businessman would have taken the time to do due diligence and/or written language into the contract allowing for cancellation. Seems more like 1D chess

 

[Matias]

Case in point:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1591698385824018433

I don't see that fact check in my twitter. Maybe it's only in U.S.?

 

[PeterJA]

...The one-half of all Twitter employees he carelessly, brutally, fired can now testify to this.

Sounds like you've been reading the smear campaign in mainstream media, an industry that Elon is disrupting.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1588671155766194176