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Elon & Twitter

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This first round of culling at Twitter is going to cut to the bone, and it's going to just look absolutely hideous to us outsiders. People will ask "why is he firing everyone that know how things run, etc. etc.". My friend formerly at Tesla said it's simple: "if you don't buy into Elon's vision of what he wants to accomplish, you are a hinderance and not a help. He would rather cut you early and be done with it and not bother dealing with you in the future than risking future drama with you."

All this is nice and good, but the early reports are a lot of folks staying are H1B folks and anyone who can do better or are great (Elon material) left. You may or may not buy into his vision, but unlike all his other companies (Tesla/SpaceX/Boring), those were early/preIPO/low debt/different types of companies without a huge employee base (which he culled already).

I agree with you that someone would have to really sign off on Elon's vision for Twitter to want to stay, but it's clear that he doesn't know the vision yet neither unlike those other companies (and Elon has stated as much he will try stuff and keep changing as needed). That's a different bone to solve than those other places.

It's just unfair I think to assume Twitter is at any stage like those companies. Like someone else posted, he'd probably be better off building a social media company from scratch and it'd be cheaper with a tons less headache.

I think we can all agree and he agrees as well that he totally overpaid for Twitter and would've dropped out if he was able to. Similar to Tesla roof raising prices after signed contracts and Tesla backing down knowing they'd lose every single lawsuit if it went to that, Elon buying Twitter was because he was forced to buy it at the price he wanted and terms he signed off on after the lawsuit was looming.

It still boils down to the folks Elon really wants to stay, and what is their motivation to stay considering their great employment prospects and general "wealth" already with Elon overpaying for Twitter. A lot of the execs he canned had multi-hundred $$ golden parachutes and you can assume a lot of folks made out well also.
 
The most surprising thing about this thread, and I say this as a long time member of this site who has watched the "Elon Musk" thread forever, is that people really seem to think they "know" what Elon thinks or wants or intends at every turn. I see an inordinate number of posts talking about "Elon will" or "Elon believes" or whatever. I'd multi quote them but it would feel a little ad hominem. I just don't know if any of us really has that insight. Really, the posts should be "it seems like Elon.." or "I suspect Elon.." if we're all trying to be honest. And it softens the rhetoric quite a bit because it doesn't feel so cocksure.


I think the truth is Elon doesn't even know what to do. He even stated as much so what we think or what Elon believes is changing regularly this very moment as circumstances change.

He posted the ultimatum, that didn't go well, he asked folks he wanted to stay, stay. He said they'll try stuff, change things as needed and keep what works (that's just obvious life/business thinking).

I think as a general truth, very top (wealthy) people simply as an elite person doesn't respond well to threats or blackmail. Twitter is not a revolutionary company at this point (IMO).

All this Elon watch is sorta amusing though as an outsider.
 
Cry me a river. They all the freedom to leave and get a 3 months severance. The have the freedom to stay and work a ton of hours if they like and maybe make something special. I bet you love unions 😂 .
No they all don't. Majority of the employees who stayed are on H1B visas and would have had 60 days to find another sponsor (which is very very hard) or leave immediately/deported. They basically had no choice.

Funny thing is that most people virtue signaling about this situation.

Are the same people that would be leading the revolt if something similar happened at their place of work. If someone bought out the company they work at and demanded everyone work 18 hours days including weekends.

They would be the first one holding the pitch-fork.
 
The question is not whether Trump will be let back on Twitter. The only unknown is when he will be allowed back. Trump poses a problem for Musk unless Twitter clearly spells out what it feels is legal free speech. Until that written policy is firmed up, Trump won't be on. If he is allowed back without a clear policy, then whatever he tweets will set the standard for everyone else.

Musk also has to factor how this may affect what is 80-90% of Twitter's revenues. Letting him back on in a free for all platform (or less moderated because they fired everyone in that department) means he may lose the advertisers he needs to turn things around. Twitter is burning a lot of cash right now being loaded up with debt and was never really profitable.

Unlike Tesla making stuff that everyone loves and want, advertisers like Nintendo don't want their Mario avatar flipping all their customers off or say, Pikachu mooning everyone.

People call freedom of speech for everyone, but there is also consequences and other people's (companies) freedom of choice to not buy/support products of folks they think spreads hate or division.

Looking at other advanced economies, I get the feeling that our politics/business/power companies/US environment just wants to divide folks and pit everyone against everyone else so we're all too blinded to see and fix real problems.
 
All this is nice and good, but the early reports are a lot of folks staying are H1B folks and anyone who can do better or are great (Elon material) left. You may or may not buy into his vision, but unlike all his other companies (Tesla/SpaceX/Boring), those were early/preIPO/low debt/different types of companies without a huge employee base (which he culled already).

I agree with you that someone would have to really sign off on Elon's vision for Twitter to want to stay, but it's clear that he doesn't know the vision yet neither unlike those other companies (and Elon has stated as much he will try stuff and keep changing as needed). That's a different bone to solve than those other places.

It's just unfair I think to assume Twitter is at any stage like those companies. Like someone else posted, he'd probably be better off building a social media company from scratch and it'd be cheaper with a tons less headache.

I think we can all agree and he agrees as well that he totally overpaid for Twitter and would've dropped out if he was able to. Similar to Tesla roof raising prices after signed contracts and Tesla backing down knowing they'd lose every single lawsuit if it went to that, Elon buying Twitter was because he was forced to buy it at the price he wanted and terms he signed off on after the lawsuit was looming.

It still boils down to the folks Elon really wants to stay, and what is their motivation to stay considering their great employment prospects and general "wealth" already with Elon overpaying for Twitter. A lot of the execs he canned had multi-hundred $$ golden parachutes and you can assume a lot of folks made out well also.

Well, George Hotz wanted to come work for Twitter (for 12 weeks). Before Elon, he would have never touched the company.

And a guy like that is worth 1000 "regular" engineers.


I stand by what I said, I don't think Elon will have any problems finding people that are both talented and motivated to work for him at Twitter. Case in point - the ~50 people that came over from Tesla and SpaceX would have had a choice, they can't be forced to work for another company, and we have heard ZERO cases of anyone in that group quitting.
 
Case in point - the ~50 people that came over from Tesla and SpaceX would have had a choice, they can't be forced to work for another company, and we have heard ZERO cases of anyone in that group quitting.
Too funny!....oh....you mean that seriously..=...By the way, is Tesla (and TSLA shareholders) realizing revenues from Twitter for the labor of these "volunteers"?
 
Exactly this. You’ve echoed many of my thoughts precisely.

I don’t want Elon to fail but his actions seem to be getting less and less rational, at the very least they are costing him significant amounts of money. Howard Hughes comes to mind.

I don’t know how many people it takes to run twitter. Hopefully fewer than Elon has left. I’ve seen many people claim that you only need ‘a few good people,’ and most of Twitter was bloat and dead weight. That may be true. The more important question is who stayed. I've seen several credible reports that many of those who stayed were not people who wanted to stay but rather people who had to stay. That's not the best way to pare down your workforce and they may be quite good, but the selection criteria wasn't 'good' it was 'necessity,' clearly not the method you would prefer to use if you need to trim your workforce to the barebones core of essential 'hard core' employees.

As I wrote previously, Elon's actions in the past 3 weeks also don't do him any favors when it comes to recruiting new employees that are top tier. To be sure there are some people who will follow Elon straight into the volcano. (Just look at the posts here on TMC.) But if I were a top caliber software engineer, I probably already have a good job. Why should I risk it to go work in a boiler room environment with an erratic boss known for firing people on a whim all for a project that has a low chance of success?
The thing Elon does have with Tesla is a mission and a plan. Remember the Secret Master Plans? Evidently he’s given up on secret master plan part III.
 
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Too funny!....oh....you mean that seriously..=...By the way, is Tesla (and TSLA shareholders) realizing revenues from Twitter for the labor of these "volunteers"?

1) It's 50 out of 100,000+ employees.
2) Twitter will be paying them salary during their time at Twitter (SpaceX does the same when Tesla engineers go work over there for a few weeks, and vice versa - materials chemists, programmers, etc.)
 
Tesla is the dominant US EV manufacturer and
(1) Hasn't had the Federal tax credit for years
He doesn't want a Federal tax credit
(2) Builds its own charging infrastructure
He doesn't want subsidized charging infrastructure, especially if his company can't have any subsidies. I've written before that Dieselgate was bad for Tesla and I still think so.
Federal tax credit is unavoidable (manufacturers are required to submit data to the US DOE), but if he doesn't want subsidized charging infrastructure, all he's gotta do is not request any subsidies. Tesla's actions over the last year suggest otherwise.
(4) Had its Fremont factory shut down during COVID by a state employee in a Democrat administration.
He doesn't think that factories should have been shut down during COVID.
Then he should go at it against the government in Shanghai because their COVID restrictions are way more ridiculous and stupid given that we already have ways to manage the disease (unlike what happened in California in 2020). But I haven't heard a peep out of that hypocrite about the Shanghai factory being shut down back in April...of 2022. You know, AFTER we got vaccines for SARS-CoV-2 (and Shanghai, along with the rest of the PRC, refuses to use the best vaccines to this day).
 
1) It's 50 out of 100,000+ employees.
2) Twitter will be paying them salary during their time at Twitter (SpaceX does the same when Tesla engineers go work over there for a few weeks, and vice versa - materials chemists, programmers, etc.)
How were they chosen to "volunteer"? Was there a notice in the company bulletin or did management tap them on the shoulder? Are they unessential to Tesla?
 
He paid $54.20 per share (get it? 420. That’s witty to him) AND waived due diligence. (For no good reason. That’s like going to buy a home in this market, where there is zero competition for a particular home and you waiving your right to a home inspection first/buying as-is).

Did anyone really expect this to go well?
 
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The most surprising thing about this thread, and I say this as a long time member of this site who has watched the "Elon Musk" thread forever, is that people really seem to think they "know" what Elon thinks or wants or intends at every turn. I see an inordinate number of posts talking about "Elon will" or "Elon believes" or whatever. I'd multi quote them but it would feel a little ad hominem. I just don't know if any of us really has that insight. Really, the posts should be "it seems like Elon.." or "I suspect Elon.." if we're all trying to be honest. And it softens the rhetoric quite a bit because it doesn't feel so cocksure.
I feel like I’m going crazy because I remember when Elon *clearly* and forcefully stated, as great leaders do, what he thinks. These thoughts were distilled in the master plans. Is this correct? Because now, it’s like he’s a god: he’s unknowable but infallible. Now everyone is like “just trust him.”
 
How were they chosen to "volunteer"? Was there a notice in the company bulletin or did management tap them on the shoulder? Are they unessential to Tesla?

Raise your hand if you know a former VP at Tesla.

/me raises hand


Elon asks, he makes it clear you are under no obligation to go (i.e. no coercement).


Tesla can deal without them for a few weeks. They all work in teams on projects that are on-going.


EDIT - and they are all probably getting a bonus or something (bonus+options?) directly from Twitter for their extra work.
 
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So do I, my wife, and 2 sons. I started a consulting company and grew it to nice size, then sold it and stayed on for a decade running one of the offices. I still do independent work and even at my age I am contacted multiple times per day for opportunities. I dont think Elon would be interested in a gray hair like me. He would be after my sons. They now wouldnt even think about working for him. They were interested in working for Climate Change fighting Elon. Not this Elon. Now I am about to get people on here to tell me that my sons are liberal snowflakes. People like to point out that like 98% of Twitter employees voted/gave to Democrats. That same chart says 94% of Tesla employees did as well. Oh also my oldest did get contacted for a 2nd interview from Tesla a few years back, but Tesla recruiting was to slow and he was starting a new job the following Monday so he turned it down.
This.
If Elon is so concerned about the "bipartisanship", he should understand that he's closing himself in a right/far right bubble, especially with Twitter employees (I guess it's different for Tesla and SpaceX).
 
Federal tax credit is unavoidable (manufacturers are required to submit data to the US DOE), but if he doesn't want subsidized charging infrastructure, all he's gotta do is not request any subsidies. Tesla's actions over the last year suggest otherwise.

Then he should go at it against the government in Shanghai because their COVID restrictions are way more ridiculous and stupid given that we already have ways to manage the disease (unlike what happened in California in 2020). But I haven't heard a peep out of that hypocrite about the Shanghai factory being shut down back in April...of 2022. You know, AFTER we got vaccines for SARS-CoV-2 (and Shanghai, along with the rest of the PRC, refuses to use the best vaccines to this day).
Th
This month, I chose to leave my position leading trust and safety at Elon Musk’s Twitter.
My teams were responsible for drafting Twitter’s rules and figuring out how to apply them consistently to hundreds of millions of tweets per day. In my more than seven years at the company, we exposed government-backed troll farms meddling in elections, introduced tools for contextualizing dangerous misinformation and, yes, banned President Donald Trump from the service. The Cornell professor Tarleton Gillespie called teams like mine the “custodians of the internet.” The work of online sanitation is unrelenting and contentious.
Enter Mr. Musk.
In a news release announcing his agreement to acquire the company, Mr. Musk laid out a simple thesis: “Free speech is the bedrock of a functioning democracy, and Twitter is the digital town square where matters vital to the future of humanity are debated.” He said he planned to revitalize Twitter by eliminating spam and drastically altering its policies to remove only illegal speech.
Since the deal closed on Oct‌. 27‌‌, many of the changes made by Mr. Musk and his team have been sudden and alarming for employees and users alike, including rapid-fire layoffs and an ill-fated foray into reinventing Twitter’s verification system. A wave of employee resignations caused the hashtag #RIPTwitter to trend on the site on Thursday — not for the first time — alongside questions about whether a skeleton crew of remaining staff members can keep the service, now 16 years old, afloat.
And yet when it comes to content moderation, much has stayed the same since Mr. Musk’s acquisition. Twitter’s rules continue to ban a wide range of lawful but awful speech. Mr. Musk has insisted publicly that the company’s practices and policies are unchanged. Are we just in the early days — or has the self-declared free speech absolutist had a change of heart?

The truth is that even Elon Musk’s brand of radical transformation has unavoidable limits.
Advertisers have played the most direct role thus far in moderating Mr. Musk’s free speech ambitions. As long as 90 percent of the company’s revenue comes from ads (as was the case when Mr. Musk bought the company), Twitter has little choice but to operate in a way that won’t imperil the revenue streams that keep the lights on. This has already proved to be challenging.
Almost immediately upon the acquisition’s close, a wave of racist and antisemitic trolling emerged on Twitter. Wary marketers, including those at General Mills, Audi and Pfizer, slowed down or paused ad spending on the platform, kicking off a crisis within the company to protect precious ad revenue.

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In response, Mr. Musk empowered my team to move more aggressively to remove hate speech across the platform — censoring more content, not less. Our actions worked: Before my departure, I shared data about Twitter’s enforcement of hateful conduct, showing that by some measures, Twitter was actually safer under Mr. Musk than it was before.
Marketers have not shied away from using the power of the purse: In the days following Mr. Musk’s acquisition, the Global Alliance for Responsible Media, a key ad industry trade group, published an open call to Twitter to adhere to existing commitments to “brand safety.” It’s perhaps for this reason that Mr. Musk has said he wants to move away from ads as Twitter’s primary revenue source: His ability to make decisions unilaterally about the site’s future is constrained by a marketing industry he neither controls nor has managed to win over.
But even if Mr. Musk is able to free Twitter from the influence of powerful advertisers, his path to unfettered speech is still not clear. Twitter remains bound by the laws and regulations of the countries in which it operates. Amid the spike in racial slurs on Twitter in the days after the acquisition, the European Union’s chief platform regulator posted on the site to remind Mr. Musk that in Europe, an unmoderated free-for-all won’t fly. In the United States, members of Congress and the Federal Trade Commission have raised concerns about the company’s recent actions. And outside the United States and the European Union, the situation becomes even more complex: Mr. Musk’s principle of keying Twitter’s policies on local laws could push the company to censor speech it was loath to restrict in the past, including political dissent.

Regulators have significant tools at their disposal to enforce their will on Twitter and on Mr. Musk. Penalties for noncompliance with Europe’s Digital Services Act could total as much as 6 percent of the company’s annual revenue. In the United States, the F.T.C. has shown an increasing willingness to exact significant fines for noncompliance with its orders (like a blockbuster $5 billion fine imposed on Facebook in 2019). In other key markets for Twitter, such as India, in-country staff members work with the looming threat of personal intimidation and arrest if their employers fail to comply with local directives. Even a Musk-led Twitter will struggle to shrug off these constraints.
There is one more source of power on the web — one that most people don’t think much about but may be the most significant check on unrestrained speech on the mainstream internet: the app stores operated by Google and Apple.
While Twitter has been publicly tight-lipped about how many people use the company’s mobile apps (rather than visit Twitter on a web browser), its 2021 annual report didn’t mince words: The company’s release of new products “is dependent upon and can be impacted by digital storefront operators” that decide the guidelines and enforce them, it reads. “Such review processes can be difficult to predict, and certain decisions may harm our business.”
“May harm our business” is an understatement. Failure to adhere to Apple’s and Google’s guidelines would be catastrophic, risking Twitter’s expulsion from their app stores and making it more difficult for billions of potential users to get Twitter’s services. This gives Apple and Google enormous power to shape the decisions Twitter makes.
Apple’s guidelines for developers are reasonable and plainly stated: They emphasize creating “a safe experience for users” and stress the importance of protecting children. The guidelines quote Justice Potter Stewart’s “I know it when I see it” quip, saying the company will ban apps that are “over the line.”
In practice, the enforcement of these rules is fraught.

In my time at Twitter, representatives of the app stores regularly raised concerns about content available on our platform. On one occasion, a member of an app review team contacted Twitter, saying with consternation that he had searched for “#boobs” in the Twitter app and was presented with … exactly what you’d expect. Another time, on the eve of a major feature release, a reviewer sent screenshots of several days-old tweets containing an English-language racial slur, asking Twitter representatives whether they should be permitted to appear on the service.
Reviewers hint that app approval could be delayed or perhaps even withheld entirely if issues are not resolved to their satisfaction — although the standards for resolution are often implied. Even as they appear to be driven largely by manual checks and anecdotes, these review procedures have the power to derail company plans and trigger all-hands-on-deck crises for weeks or months at a time.

Whose values are these companies defending when they enforce their policies? While the wide array of often conflicting global laws no doubt plays a part, the most direct explanation is that platform policies are shaped by the preferences of a small group of predominantly American tech executives. Steve Jobs didn’t believe porn should be allowed in the App Store, and so it isn’t allowed. Stripped bare, the decisions have a dismaying lack of legitimacy.

It’s this very lack of legitimacy that Mr. Musk, correctly, points to when he calls for greater free speech and for the establishment of a “content moderation council” to guide the company’s policies — an idea Google and Apple would be right to borrow for the governance of their app stores. But even as he criticizes the capriciousness of platform policies, he perpetuates the same lack of legitimacy through his impulsive changes and tweet-length pronouncements about Twitter’s rules. In appointing himself “chief twit,” Mr. Musk has made clear that at the end of the day, he’ll be the one calling the shots.
It was for this reason that I chose to leave the company: A Twitter whose policies are defined by edict has little need for a trust and safety function dedicated to its principled development.
So where will Twitter go from here? Some of the company’s decisions in the weeks and months to come, like the near certainty of allowing Mr. Trump’s account back on the service, will have an immediate, perceptible impact. But to truly understand the shape of Twitter going forward, I’d encourage looking not just at the choices the company makes but also at how Mr. Musk makes them. Should the moderation council materialize, will it represent more than just the loudest, predominantly American voices complaining about censorship — including, critically, the approximately 80 percent of Twitter users who reside outside the United States? Will the company continue to invest in features like Community Notes, which brings Twitter users into the work of platform governance? Will Mr. Musk’s tweets announcing policy changes become less frequent and abrupt?
In the longer term, the moderating influences of advertisers, regulators and, most critically of all, app stores may be welcome for those of us hoping to avoid an escalation in the volume of dangerous speech online. Twitter will have to balance its new owner’s goals against the practical realities of life on Apple’s and Google’s internet — no easy task for the employees who have chosen to remain. And as I departed the company, the calls from the app review teams had already begun.

Open in incognito window. No paywall for me.
 
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No they all don't. Majority of the employees who stayed are on H1B visas and would have had 60 days to find another sponsor (which is very very hard) or leave immediately/deported. They basically had no choice.

Funny thing is that most people virtue signaling about this situation.

Are the same people that would be leading the revolt if something similar happened at their place of work. If someone bought out the company they work at and demanded everyone work 18 hours days including weekends.

They would be the first one holding the pitch-fork.

The majority of employees have H1B visas? How did you figure that one out? People from overseas like myself have not had an easy life growing up so they are not cry babies and actually know what real work means and appreciate what they have. I thought California was very diverse but according to you most foreign looking people do not have a USA residency or citizenship. At least at company the people that H1B visas are 2% of the workforce.

The New York Times estimated that there are about 2700 employees left after the recent resignations. According to Forbes there were 8% of the work force had H1B visas so your statement is false. By the way I am a Democrat, I voted for Biden but I can't stand people that can't face a little bit of hardship.
 
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