ZenRockGarden
Active Member
You didn't hear me. I said that Eon's 80-hour style can work IF there's an amazing goal being advanced. Owning the libs and building another WeChat ISNT motivating to the kinds of people you'd need 80 hour workweeks from
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Elon & Twitter
- Thread starter Buckminster
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You didn't hear me. I said that Eon's 80-hour style can work IF there's an amazing goal being advanced. Owning the libs and building another WeChat ISNT motivating to the kinds of people you'd need 80 hour workweeks from
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Dude, to spell it out - you do the search and see what quitting engineers are saying. I've seen tweets where they are saying almost noone is left in the team/group and fairly important teams too.
I've been in IT industry for 30 years working in top 10 companies in all sorts of positions. There is a big difference between changing the culture of an existing company and building one from scratch. If you create chaos, the first ones to leave are the best ones.
This is not to say - Twitter will shutdown (though it can have technical issues that will take more time to solve in the future). But if you want to retain the best engineers, it is obviously a bad way of doing it.
This is you, projecting your values and personal beliefs on society and nothing more.
It's not Musk's first rodeo cutting people. He has been the CEO of multiple billion dollar companies for over a decade. He has acquired multiple companies throughout the years that he did not start and did mass cutting. You make it seem like only you and these other back seat drivers fully understand the psychology of software engineers at twitter with about 0 years of CEO experience.
At the end of the day, lets not forget that it was Twitter's board and shareholders who wanted Musk's money and took him to court when he decided it he didn't want twitter anymore. Musk was pretty clear that major cuts will be coming. Could have settled for any kind of compensation but instead Twitter forced it down his throat. So the criers need to lay in the bed they made.
The board didn't have a choice. Their fiduciary duty is to the shareholders and the shareholders knew that Twitter wasn't worth anything close to $44 billion. So they'd have sued the board if the board didn't push for the entire contract to be carried out as written.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
I work in the industry. I have seen exactly ONE anti-woke engineer across hundreds of highly skilled software engineers. They are rare. That may be uncomfortable to you, but sticking your fingers in your ears and going "I don't believe it" won't change it
How can anyone know what anything is worth? In fact the board felt twitter was worth more than what Musk agreed to pay. There are bull and bear thesis for all of these companies and you couldn't find one person to agree on what is the worth for any of these publicly traded companies.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It's his first one cutting tons of people he had nothing to do with hiring in the first place.
None of his previous companies had massive layoffs of existing staff after he came in.
People keep pretending this is just like his other companies, and there's a really long list of reasons it clearly ain't. That's just one of em.
Which ones?
Not Tesla.
Not SpaceX.
Not X.com.
Not Boring.
Not Neuralink.
Not Zip2.
So which multi-billion dollar companies did he acquire, become CEO of, and then do mass cutting at before twitter?
There's "multiple" ones according to you... so name em.
Given how much Musk was overpaying the board literally had no choice but to ask for specific performance, it was their fiduciary duty and they've have been heavily liable themselves in court for failing to do so.
Sure. He just appears to be taking the dumbest, most destructive, route possible to get there.
Yes. They "forced" him to make an unsolicited, overpriced, offer to buy them. That's TOTALLY how that works.
Wow.
Not everyone goes around advertising their political opinions. Also, aren’t you a hiring manager? What are you asking your candidates and how can that be relevant to hiring engineers? How do you exactly see who is woke and who is not?
| Date | Announced | Company | Business | Value (USD) | References |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
May 8, 2015 | Yes | Riviera Tool LLC | Stamping die systems used to form sheet metal parts | Unknown | [90] |
Nov 8, 2016 | Yes | Grohmann Engineering | Engineering automation systems | 135 million | [91] |
Nov 21, 2016 | Yes | SolarCity | Provides solar energy services | 2,600 million | [92] |
Nov 7, 2017 | Yes | Perbix | Designs automated manufacturing equipment | 10.5 million (All-stock) | [93] |
Dec 1, 2017 | No | Compass Automation | Designs, develops and integrates custom automation systems that help optimize production. [1] | Unknown | [94] |
May 16, 2019 | Yes | Maxwell Technologies | Manufactures and markets energy storage and power delivery solutions for automobiles | 218 million (All-stock) | [95] |
Oct 1, 2019 | Yes | DeepScale | Develops perceptual system technologies for automated vehicles | Unknown | [96] |
Oct 2, 2019 | No | Hibar Systems | Advanced automation solutions for small cell batteries through a mechanized pump injection system | Unknown | [97] |
Feb 1, 2020 | No | SilLion Inc. | Specializes in anodes and electrodes for cylindrical batteries | Unknown | |
Sep 25, 2020 | No | German ATW Automation | Assembling battery modules and packs for the auto industry | Unknown |
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
I've been in the industry for over 3 decades, across many companies. I've known hundreds of engineers very well.
As a hiring manager I would never ever ask any political question of anyone I have a work relationship with - this is basic HR. However I am perfectly free to listen.
If you feel there are a very large number of passionately anti-woke software engineers out there who would sacrifice their family time and personal lives to forward the cause of owning-the-libs, by all means - bring your evidence or experience.
Sounds like Musk chewed 'em up and spit 'em out as expected.
Hopefully anyone remaining is deserving and rewarded with IPO stock options.
Hopefully anyone remaining is deserving and rewarded with IPO stock options.
You need to get out in the real world.
that may have been what you meant, but it definitely is not what you said which was Elon was asking everyone to take a per hour pay cut and that folks were missing is ("...didn't seem to notice..."). And that is incorrect. No one is missing it; everyone recognizes that is exactly Elon's point. (And the press hates it bcos their favorite communication medium is no longer family-friendly).
Good that you clarified. Sounded very sketchy how you put it.
Are you taking into account the people that maybe hide their true opinions because otherwise they will be labeled as white supremacists based on completely arbitrary criteria? I certainly kept quiet when I started to question some of the BS going on at the company I worked for.
So it looks like George Hotz has indeed joined Twitter. This is bullish for Twitter which is in turn bullish for Tesla.
Even more than Elon, Hotz will attract the best of the best software developers. Hotz was limited in what he could accomplish on a shoestring budget at CommaAI. At Twitter, he will be unchained.
This is Elon again attracting the top talent that attracts the top talent.
Even more than Elon, Hotz will attract the best of the best software developers. Hotz was limited in what he could accomplish on a shoestring budget at CommaAI. At Twitter, he will be unchained.
This is Elon again attracting the top talent that attracts the top talent.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
You should try reading the entire post you respond to. Here is the full context of what I said, and it's quite clear.
Folks didn't seem to notice that the demand of 80 hour workweeks for engineers and managers is really just a 50% hourly paycut.
Elon is able to get people to work that hard at Tesla and Space-X, but they signed up for it when hired, they tend to burn out and eventually quit, but since Tesla and Space-X are doing amazing things there's a supply for more young talent willing to replace the burned out ones.
Twitter is not doing anything amazing to draw in all that young no-family-life work-all-day, burn-out, step-and-repeat talent.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
.... none of which appears to have had mass firings after they were purchased.
Hell, NONE of which are even ONE billion dollar companies, let alone "multi billion" as you said.
The first one on the list had 100 total employees when purchased, most of which remained with the company after. No mass culling.
The second one had ~700 employees when they announced they were buying it, and then INCREASED the number later, no culling at all.
Solar city was a bailout-- one Tesla ended up sued over repeatedly.
Same as you go down the list... mostly just tiny companies Tesla bought as suppliers or for battery/automation tech- and no mass cullings by Elon to be seen.
It looks like you just googled a list of 'any company Tesla ever acquired' without doing any actual research to support your claim. Which it fails utterly to do.
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ZenRockGarden
Active Member
You are free to believe in the hidden-unicorn fleet of secret anti-woke super talented software engineers. I see no evidence for them and it kinda feels like unrealistic wishful thinking on your part.
Ok. This whole idea that the entire appeal of Twitter going forward is to be some kind of "Anti-Woke" platform is just complete nonsense.
This is your narrative based again on your personal biases.
I've been a left leaning voter for quite some time, and still vote mostly party-line Democrat. But I don't remotely see how you consider this an "anti-woke" move. Unless I guess you consider free speech and "Woke" to be diametrically opposed. If so, I'm not sure when that happened.
People will take jobs at Twitter because they find the idea of rebuilding one of the major internet services appealing. It's a technical challenge. If you don't think there is appeal to that, then you aren't much of a developer.
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