Elon & Twitter

[advocate8]

Is Twitter profitable?

Better questions:
1) Did Elon know it wasn’t when he bought it, and that it had little chance of becoming so? Everyone else seemed to.
2) Should everyone there -- after something like 3/4 are already gone in a matter of weeks, and after the remainder signed up for working “hardcore” thanks to his manufactured crisis -- continue to pay for his incompetence and lack of impulse control?
3) Did these latest layoffs sign up for every arbitrary thing he demanded, just weeks ago? Yes.
4) Is Twitter now following employment law, paying agreed-upon severance and paying contractors, subcontractors, landlords etc?
5) Does Elon have the resources to cover all the above obligations and pay this handful of engineers for at least a few more days without even noticing the impact on his checkbook? Yes.
6) Is this demonstrated level of concern for people the sacred spark of humanity we need to save by colonizing Mars?
7) Is Elon soulless?

 

[mspohr]

Better questions:
1) Did Elon know it wasn’t when he bought it, and that it had little chance of becoming so? Everyone else seemed to.
2) Should everyone there -- after something like 3/4 are already gone in a matter of weeks, and after the remainder signed up for working “hardcore” thanks to his manufactured crisis -- continue to pay for his incompetence and lack of impulse control?
3) Did these latest layoffs sign up for every arbitrary thing he demanded, just weeks ago? Yes.
4) Is Twitter now following employment law, paying agreed-upon severance and paying contractors, subcontractors, landlords etc?
5) Does Elon have the resources to cover all the above obligations and pay this handful of engineers for at least a few more days without even noticing the impact on his checkbook? Yes.
6) Is this demonstrated level of concern for people the sacred spark of humanity we need to save by colonizing Mars?
7) Is Elon soulless?

As people get richer, they seem to lose empathy. Elon, with his autism, probably didn't have much to start with and we are now seeing this play out.

 

[advocate8]

As people get richer, they seem to lose empathy. Elon, with his autism, probably didn't have much to start with and we are now seeing this play out.

yes. And I’d posit the stated desire to colonize Mars is solely a rationalization for a personal interest in space/rockets etc, much as the stated desire to foster a global free-speech platform at Twitter was a rationalization to cover his Tweet addiction-triggered $44 billion purchase.
And BOTH of these and his current friendliness with climate deniers cast serious doubt on whether he is (and maybe ever was) honestly committed to the mission of fighting climate change.
You want to save humanity? You focus all your prodigious intellect on saving the planet humanity exists on and is adapted to. Salmon and all.

 

[SouthFLGuy]

They're having trouble moving inventory:

Tesla (TSLA) increases discount on cars delivered this month

Tesla (TSLA) is increasing the discount to $7,500 on all Model 3 and Model Y vehicles delivered this month.

electrek.co

 

[Knightshade]

You want to save humanity? You focus all your prodigious intellect on saving the planet humanity exists on and is adapted to. Salmon and all.

FWIW from an engineering perspective, and especially a software/data preservation one, having an off-site backup strategy is pretty critical-- so there at least his intent regarding Mars makes entirely rational sense. Which is in stark contrast to this twitter stuff where nothing does.

 

[advocate8]

They're having trouble moving inventory:

Tesla (TSLA) increases discount on cars delivered this month

Tesla (TSLA) is increasing the discount to $7,500 on all Model 3 and Model Y vehicles delivered this month.

electrek.co

Jury still out on why. I still think tax credit is a fair amount of the issue, Twitter maybe 2nd place. But we’ll have a better sense of it next month...
Obviously seems like $7,500 would be enough to overcome reason number one, as most buyers are prob unaware of the camera/radar thing, but this is showing up so late game in prob won’t have major effect except for just a few days.
That still doesn’t feel like a huge bargain in that market segment, its about what I paid for a car delivered just 5 months ago and ordered earlier before price hikes. The economy is going to be part of lowered demand, given the cars aren’t cheap.
Mind you, I think my Y is worth every bit of that. Car is terrific. Just saying there def will be more headwinds in that market segment than say a year ago.

 

[advocate8]

FWIW from an engineering perspective, and especially a software/data preservation one, having an off-site backup strategy is pretty critical-- so there at least his intent regarding Mars makes entirely rational sense. Which is in stark contrast to this twitter stuff where nothing does.

That’s reasonable, totally makes sense.
My view, and just my view? I’d def argue the time and energy would be better spent on solutions here, and the link to his personal interest in space travel makes the rationality that went into the choice to pursue that ... .suspect.
And gymnastics it took to try to rationalize the Twitter purchase vs the obvious real reason also brings his other major decisions into question. Rationalizing personal bias/hobbies as an M.O.

 

[sunwarriors]

There’s no defending it.

This is engineers at Twitter I’m talking about btw….not the scads at Tesla ……We all know his resources, and the fact these were among the workers who accepted his ultimatum etc. and the fact that Twitter wasn’t in financial crises until Mr. Resources came along and overpaid.
No decent human does this given circumstances that clearly make it entirely optional.

Tech giants are laying off thousands of people. Here's how their severance packages stack up.

Google is paying laid off employees 16 weeks of salary at minimum, and six months of healthcare, while Salesforce promised five months of pay.

www.businessinsider.com

An article about layoff comparisons. Twitter is the only company I've seen with lawsuits trying to get what was promised. Whether there are execs or regular staff, I don't see articles about other tech firms having this issue.

There's always been a history of layoffs during the holidays I've noticed. I'm not sure why, but sucks to be Twitter Infra folks who were sticking around to go extreme hard-core, but just get axed as a thank you Christmas present now. I still go back to why anyone wants to even work at Twitter with low job stability, high turnover (even that great tech millenia guy left after 5 weeks in his 12 week internship) and everyone probably looking over their shoulder who will get axed next.

My guess is Musk may just take this company to bankruptcy and renegotiate all the debt then. It's a valid strategy, but like some other posters here mentioned, Musk will never be forced to work or put food on the table, pay health insurance, etc. He's sorta screwing over people's lives and that's sorta sick, disappointing for someone who was bullied I think when he was young.

As people get richer, they seem to lose empathy. Elon, with his autism, probably didn't have much to start with and we are now seeing this play out.

Just need even more failures in life, disappointments, failures to wake him up further. He's surrounded by only fans and anyone who disagrees with him has been fired/axed already.

I honestly think the should I stay poll surprised him that people even wanted him to leave, but he's been in a bubble I think and he views anyone with a different opinion of him as idiots and woke, etc..

The first to mid part of 2023 will be interesting times for EV pricing, Twitter, CA NEM3.0 results and everything else. Grab big batches of popcorn and hold on.

 

[sunwarriors]

Jury still out on why. I still think tax credit is a fair amount of the issue, Twitter maybe 2nd place. But we’ll have a better sense of it next month...
Obviously seems like $7,500 would be enough to overcome reason number one, as most buyers are prob unaware of the camera/radar thing, but this is showing up so late game in prob won’t have major effect except for just a few days.
That still doesn’t feel like a huge bargain in that market segment, its about what I paid for a car delivered just 5 months ago and ordered earlier before price hikes. The economy is going to be part of lowered demand, given the cars aren’t cheap.
Mind you, I think my Y is worth every bit of that. Car is terrific. Just saying there def will be more headwinds in that market segment than say a year ago.

There is concern in some of the other Model Y/3 threads that Tesla may cut prices further. Remember, prices were raised like $17k or so for the MY from 2020 to now I think (I'm sure someone here who follows it can post that). Tesla has the most room for price cuts/margins and they either cut prices to move inventory or cut production. Some new plants are coming online and some concern from some of your fellow Tesla owners is used prices will be massively tanked as this plays out.

Inventory isn't scarce currently and new is $7500 lower than everyone else who bought before December and 2023 moving forward. With no delays in taking delivery, used pricing of all Tesla Model 3/Y is guaranteed to take a hit I'm guessing by $7,500 at least. UNLESS, Tesla decides to RAISE prices in 2023.

I think raising prices will be a hard sell, but that's all market dependent so we'll see.

 

[Just a Reader]

I’m no expert on Zelensky, but I felt your post had a bit too much of “damning with faint praise” so I did a little light internet searching. His bio on Britannica doesn’t indicate the negatives you’ve stated. It doesn’t portray him as a perfect person, and the way he gained popularity to be elected president was certainly unorthodox, but nothing that screams out bad, evil, or corrupt.

While Zelensky did manage to jump-start his political agenda with the passage of a law intended to curb the influence of oligarchs, the Russian-backed insurgency in the Donbas soon devolved into the largest threat to European stability since World War II.

Well, I suggest you look at things like Zelensky and the Pandora papers. I'm not interested in justifying the Russian aggression in any way, I just dislike to be taken for a mug by our own media, as if I couldn't recall their own highly critical reporting on Ukraine and Zelensky prior to the Russian attack. Apparently our own media don't judge the maturity and judgement of their own readers too highly.

 

[SouthFLGuy]

Pretty certain that they have been given a "target" to hit for sales, and it's all hands on deck for that. Expect that the "wave" cancellation has also been postponed. My gut tells me someone wants to shut up the WS bobbleheads.

There's a lot of evidence both anecdotal and actual that Elon's Twitter rantings are playing a big role. Stock has dropped again today. Lowest since 2020.

 

[SouthFLGuy]

You need to look at other stocks and their performance YTD.

YES, Elon has had some impact, both through his sales and alienating the political left, but if you want to tell them that in the worst bear market since 2008 that TSLA being down similar to NVDA, AMZN, etc. is abnormal, then you are flat out wrong.

This is a FED-driven recession, plain and simple. The the FED will NOT stop until the labor market cracks. Today's unemployment numbers are the macro driver (not enough people have lost their jobs - how sad is that?), and the people with "sense" are selling stocks and moving into bonds, etc. that are giving defined risk.

Tesla has been down nearly 50% in the past 6 months. NVDA - 6% down, AMZN, 26% down, MSFT 8% down. GM up nearly 2%, shall I go on? This is not similar to Tesla.

 

[BitJam]

Tesla has been down nearly 50% in the past 6 months. NVDA - 6% down, AMZN, 26% down, MSFT 8% down. GM up nearly 2%, shall I go on? This is not similar to Tesla.

You know it's bad when Dave Lee starts suggesting that Elon shut up.

Many years ago I was told by a prominent anti-war activist that the Vietnam war was finally ended when the families of the generals joined the anti-war movement. Perhaps this current madness will end when most of the people closest to Musk urge him to #EMSTFU.

IMO Dave still has a very pro-Musk bias but this is a step in the right direction. I took a break from Dave's channel when he was saying Musk was playing 4-D Chess and his buying Twitter would create a world full of rainbows and unicorns even after Musk dropped his law suit. There was so much to correct and all you got for making obvious corrections was a bunch of grief from the True Believers. IMO Musk dropping the law suit instead of mopping the floor with the Twitter execs and getting Twitter for a song should have been a big clue but the people who had been horribly wrong did not seem to learn from their mistakes.

How to Fix the Elon Musk Twitter Drama Problem​

Can Elon Musk separate his role as referee and player at Twitter? Does he need to in order to create a fair place for those who disagree with his views? ​

 

[Raisin45567]

Margin Call is a great movie. Think I’m going to be forced to watch it again.

 

[SouthFLGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1605976501072973824

 

[Bouba]

I know people are upset that the share price is going down...but did anyone seriously think that the company was really worth that much?

 

[bkp_duke]

I know people are upset that the share price is going down...but did anyone seriously think that the company was really worth that much?

Considering that Tesla makes as much on ONE SALE as Toyota does on 8 sales, yes, it was not overvalued.

That doesn't include any pie-in-the-sky stuff like robotaxi, FSD Level 5, etc.



Have you read the financials? Tesla is literally a money-printing machine. 30% margins, cash in the bank, no debt, etc.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I know people are upset that the share price is going down...but did anyone seriously think that the company was really worth that much?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256239815256797184

 

[Crutonius]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256239815256797184

Well then. Mission accomplished.

 

[advocate8]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256239815256797184

Guy’s a genius. Who are we to argue with him?