Who said the OP's problem had anything to do with FSD? I was replying to DonnieNarco's post about being used as a Beta Tester, and how Tesla has people begging to be beta testers so they take advantage of that fact.
Keith
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Error rolling out of Tesla Lot with brand NEW MY
- Thread starter DonnieNarco
- Start date
Keith
MikeChicago
Member
May I ask how you've reached the conclusion that "Tesla drive trains have been remarkably problem free?" Are you saying that's the case in your vehicle or do you have access to some kind of data showing the overall fail rate?
I have experienced the same type of failure on my 2023 Model Y with several codes thrown up. Today Tesla said they replaced the rear drive train unit. It seems to be a fairly common problem if the posts here and on reddit are to be any indication. Of course, it could still be a fairly small percentage of vehicles that are affected but what is worrisome is that the failure seems to be consirstnanty the same for all of us.
I work in manufacturing. When we see something like this, it's a clear design issue. Not necessarily a QA problem. That's what I'd like to know as we now bought a second Y for my wife and I'd hate for her to experience what I have experienced. It was scary and dangerous to lose power on the highway with seconds to react and pull over to the side of the road.
MikeChicago
Member
I agree. All car makers have issues, but I will say this -- I've never owned a car that had so many build quality issues or a complete drivetrain failure at 2,000 miles. I've owned many cars including some of the "least reliable" ones like Mercedes and Audi. The most problems I've seen before were on VW Passat I had when they introduced the new refresh a few years back.
Nothing even came close to the number of issues I had with my brand new 2023 Model Y and I suspect Tesla's quality is simply subpar compared to other brands. Is it the worst one? No, probably not. It certainly isn't very good. They have work to do.
MikeChicago: Well over a million MYs sold. If it were a "fairly common problem,", the media would be all over it.
For sure, it's a manufacturing issue, not a design flaw, based on the 100s of thousands of MYs, traveling millions of miles, that haven't experienced rear drive train unit failures.
No manufacturer will ever release actual failure numbers for any given part. Standard industry practice.
No one is denying the severity of the failure, and the fact that Tesla doesn't seem to have found a way to accommodate a sudden drive unit failure.
For sure, it's a manufacturing issue, not a design flaw, based on the 100s of thousands of MYs, traveling millions of miles, that haven't experienced rear drive train unit failures.
No manufacturer will ever release actual failure numbers for any given part. Standard industry practice.
No one is denying the severity of the failure, and the fact that Tesla doesn't seem to have found a way to accommodate a sudden drive unit failure.
Nobody has that data except Tesla, but if these forums are any indication, drive failures are quite rare.
Tesla has sold almost 5 million vehicles to date, and the Model Y is the world's best selling vehicle this year, yet there are a lot more posts about range and home charging then there are about drive unit failures.
For as much engineering that goes into an EV, they're far simpler machines than ICE... regardless of the manufacturer, they're going to have less failures.
MikeChicago
Member
What I find troubling is that this is not a minor issue. It's a very dangerous failure and has been happening for a while. It's a known problem, clearly. Total power loss, in some cases the inability to steer the vehicle, and sudden vehicle deceleration and stopping in the middle of a highway is a life threatening situation whether you want to admit it or not. If you drive in a major city on a highway with heavy traffic moving at 80 miles an hour, this is a major issue.
One in 100,000 would be too high of a failure rate. We wouldn't accept it on a commercial aircraft.
If this is such a rare incident, why was the Model 3 recalled in China for that very failure with tens of thousands of vehicles taken off the road.
I'm not buying this "bad luck" and "rare" assessment from those who are desperate to defend Tesla's unacceptable quality.
Teslas knows this is an issue. Read this: Tesla Warned NHTSA of Chinese Rear Motor Inverter Recall, But Nothing Makes Sense.
Here are some more reads that will keep you up at night:
These Repair Bulletins for Tesla's Quality Problems Are Downright Embarrassing—and Serious
Two-Thirds of Earliest Tesla Drivetrains To Need Replacement In 60,000 Miles, Owner Data Suggests
With almost 100,000 on the world's roads, the Tesla Model S electric car is a remarkable achievement. It remains the longest-range electric car in volume production more than three years after it launched. But reliability issues with electric traction motors in early cars--those from the 2012...
Tesla Dismisses Chinese Investigation on SUA Cases By Recalling 1,104,622 BEVs
It includes all vehicles sold in the country since January 12, 2019: they do not allow the driver to select an "energy regenerative braking strategy"
www.autoevolution.com
Just because you had to get your drive unit replaced, it doesn't mean that the design has issues. Some people on this forum had issues with the drive unit, but other millions of other Tesla owners do not have any drive unit issue at all.
MikeChicago
Member
You seem to assume that everyone with a drive unit issue is posting in a forum. The reality is that you don't know how many defective units Tesla has released or how much they know about the issue. I don't either and we could speculate all day. What I do know is that Tesla is recalling Model 3 in China for this exact issue. Those were cars build in Fremont, which doesn't make sense. If it's a problem there. It should certainly a problem here.
I suspect Tesla knows this is an issue and has made a calculated decision to fix it as they come and avoid a costly recall. Again, I can only speculate.
Apparently this isn't the first time Tesla has had these issues and I'm sure when this was happening people also said "there is no design issue" and it's a "rare" problem...
Tesla Model S Drive Unit Replacement by the Numbers
An owner describes the issues around Tesla Model S drive units and his personal experience with having his drive unit replaced.
www.teslarati.com
laservet
Member
Your first link applies to 2012-2013 models, nothing manufactured within the last 10 years. The second link is to a mish mosh of things, some of which has been debunked since (like unintended acceleration and the woman that claimed brake failure). Do you have anything that supports your contention that Tesla motors fail at a rate higher than other vehicles?What I find troubling is that this is not a minor issue. It's a very dangerous failure and has been happening for a while. It's a known problem, clearly. Total power loss, in some cases the inability to steer the vehicle, and sudden vehicle deceleration and stopping in the middle of a highway is a life threatening situation whether you want to admit it or not. If you drive in a major city on a highway with heavy traffic moving at 80 miles an hour, this is a major issue.
One in 100,000 would be too high of a failure rate. We wouldn't accept it on a commercial aircraft.
If this is such a rare incident, why was the Model 3 recalled in China for that very failure with tens of thousands of vehicles taken off the road.
I'm not buying this "bad luck" and "rare" assessment from those who are desperate to defend Tesla's unacceptable quality.
Teslas knows this is an issue. Read this: Tesla Warned NHTSA of Chinese Rear Motor Inverter Recall, But Nothing Makes Sense.
Here are some more reads that will keep you up at night:
These Repair Bulletins for Tesla's Quality Problems Are Downright Embarrassing—and Serious
Two-Thirds of Earliest Tesla Drivetrains To Need Replacement In 60,000 Miles, Owner Data Suggests
With almost 100,000 on the world's roads, the Tesla Model S electric car is a remarkable achievement. It remains the longest-range electric car in volume production more than three years after it launched. But reliability issues with electric traction motors in early cars--those from the 2012...www.greencarreports.com
Tesla Dismisses Chinese Investigation on SUA Cases By Recalling 1,104,622 BEVs
It includes all vehicles sold in the country since January 12, 2019: they do not allow the driver to select an "energy regenerative braking strategy"
MikeChicago
Member
Yes, the very first link. I also didn't say it was specific to Model Y at this point in time. It is an example of the types of failures seen in the past. The fact that my brand new car experienced the same failure and there are literally countless posts all over here and reddit and even this happening to a well-known publication (Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Catastrophic Failure While Parked) while they were testing their own Model 3, it would take a blind man to ignore this problem today and pretend it's oh so "rare" and those of us with it are just "unlucky." Apparently someone on this forum was unlucky twice and was told to buy a lottery.
I understand, again, that fanboys here see Tesla as an aspirational brand and anything that shatters their reality that its reliability seems to be well below average is difficult to accept.
The minute you start insulting people ("you have to be blind not to".... "... Fanboy...." ) you start losing people, and turning the conversation into an adversarial nature.
You are also linking stuff from 2012, and 2019, for different models, in this thread in the model Y subforum. You may be frustrated that you had to get your new car repaired, thats normal, but calling others names isnt the answer (at least its not one here).
@MikeChicago if you’re looking for genuine conversation which remembers that we’re all just human beings, this is a great spot. If you’re just looking to insult owners and reinforce your every negative opinion, can I suggest Reddit - Dive into anything - you will love it.
MikeChicago
Member
I had no intention to offend anyone. Just making a point. Perhaps wording it differently would have come across better. I also understand that this is a Model Y sub forum and the info I shared was meant to highlight two things. Tesla has had the exact same type of failure on other models, including Model 3, which shares drivetrain with the Y, and that they attempted to hide it or at least play it down before.
I dont "do reddit" at all, but its just as valid a source for discussion as this website is. A lot of the traditional car media seems to have a bias against EVs, or Tesla in particular, but that doesnt mean everything they say is wrong, either.
Tesla definitely has had some teething pains as it relates to their silicon valley style "move fast and break things" apparent mindset. Sometimes this mindset works for customers ( new features implemented fast, lots of updates, new features on existing fleet without paying for them) and sometimes it doesnt (sometimes buggy updates, needing to re design stuff, etc).
Tesla definitely has had some teething pains as it relates to their silicon valley style "move fast and break things" apparent mindset. Sometimes this mindset works for customers ( new features implemented fast, lots of updates, new features on existing fleet without paying for them) and sometimes it doesnt (sometimes buggy updates, needing to re design stuff, etc).
MikeChicago
Member
I don't think that's entirely true, but probably close.
I just learned that Costco vendors PAY to have their products placed on the fence "cage" wall right at the entrance, so the product is immediately visible as the customer walks in. That's why it's a jumble of products without any placement logic.
All signs of healthy capitalism, like it or not!
laservet
Member
So, you really have no data at all to support your contention that drive motor failures are common in today's new Teslas. That makes you really no different from those "fanboys" you deride. "Literally countless posts" doesn't constitute evidence, just hyperbole.
What I find troubling is that this is not a minor issue. It's a very dangerous failure and has been happening for a while. It's a known problem, clearly. Total power loss, in some cases the inability to steer the vehicle, and sudden vehicle deceleration and stopping in the middle of a highway is a life threatening situation whether you want to admit it or not. If you drive in a major city on a highway with heavy traffic moving at 80 miles an hour, this is a major issue.
One in 100,000 would be too high of a failure rate. We wouldn't accept it on a commercial aircraft.
If this is such a rare incident, why was the Model 3 recalled in China for that very failure with tens of thousands of vehicles taken off the road.
I'm not buying this "bad luck" and "rare" assessment from those who are desperate to defend Tesla's unacceptable quality.
Teslas knows this is an issue. Read this: Tesla Warned NHTSA of Chinese Rear Motor Inverter Recall, But Nothing Makes Sense.
Here are some more reads that will keep you up at night:
These Repair Bulletins for Tesla's Quality Problems Are Downright Embarrassing—and Serious
Two-Thirds of Earliest Tesla Drivetrains To Need Replacement In 60,000 Miles, Owner Data Suggests
With almost 100,000 on the world's roads, the Tesla Model S electric car is a remarkable achievement. It remains the longest-range electric car in volume production more than three years after it launched. But reliability issues with electric traction motors in early cars--those from the 2012...
Tesla Dismisses Chinese Investigation on SUA Cases By Recalling 1,104,622 BEVs
It includes all vehicles sold in the country since January 12, 2019: they do not allow the driver to select an "energy regenerative braking strategy"
I agree with everything you have said. I experienced the same failure with my $100K Model S. I am a car nut, and no way are these types of failures with Tesla's normal for the car industry. It's almost unheard of for new ICE cars to have these types of catastrophic failures so soon and with such low mileage. And not only did my car lose all propulsion and coast to a stop, but within 15 mins all power to the car was lost and I couldn't even put on the safety hazards.
Did you open a case with the NHTSA? If not, please do. Fanboys are going to defend Tesla to the death, but if we all report these failures to NHTSA, they can bring awareness to these unusually large number of failures that are a major safety issue and put pressure on Tesla to improve their crappy engineering designs that save them a few pennies at the expense of the safety of the families driving in their cars and others that may ram into one of these dead Tesla's.
Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.
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