EU Market Situation and Outlook

[evme]

Some interesting news, Tesla might already be looking for a European factory?

http://spectator.sme.sk/articles/view/55382/3/slovakia_in_talks_with_tesla_motors.html

 

[Auzie]

Link to German car registration agency, if you want to follow the monthly numbers (English version is not that detailled):
Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt - 2014

August statistics (sorted after brands and its models):
http://www.kba.de/SharedDocs/Publik...10_2014_08_pdf.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2

I have to add that my numbers (...receive more than ten cars on friday and monday) were a little conservative and not precise, i don't remember exactly, might be he talked about 15 and 17. But it sounded more like a peak situation, not that this would be daily business.

Also interesting news few days ago is that the Stuttgart regional politian Nicola Schelling earned criticism after she chose to have a Model as a business car. Other politicians found it insensitive to not choose a car from Stuttgart car makers. According to them she would have found comparable cars there. She could have chosen a Mercedes B class electric for example (ironically also Tesla tec inside i remember). But the great range convinced her to choose Model S. In the end, she chose to lease the Model S privately to avoid further discussions. Another good example where public people like her stand up for somthing they believe is simply the best solution that is available at the moment. And generate another free marketing for TESLA too

The German articles of the local Stuttgart news:

Dienstwagen nicht aus Stuttgart: Starke Frau der Region eckt mit US-Dienstauto an - Stuttgart - Stuttgarter Nachrichten
Dienstwagen: Regional-Chefin fährt Tesla statt Mercedes - Stuttgart - Stuttgarter Nachrichten

Thanks for links maxwell, very informative. For some reason, I could not open the attachment.

Tesla's sales in Germany do not appear to be going well.

It is a tough market for Tesla for many reasons. It must be very difficult for prominent locals to choose any foreign made car over domestic product, as such choice may be easily interpreted as a socio-political statement. This is likely to hamper Tesla sales in Germany.

 

[Just a Reader]

Also interesting news few days ago is that the Stuttgart regional politian Nicola Schelling earned criticism after she chose to have a Model as a business car.

It's bizarre that a public official of her rank believed that she should be entitled to procure an official car in that price class. With the huge rebates available for government procurement an E-Class would have cost half as much. If she believes in making a statement for the environment, she is kindly invited to use public transport and to use a Golf from the car pool if that isn't an option.
It's also quite reasonable for tax payers to expect officials to support local industry. You wouldn't see a mid-level public official in Michigan using a S-Class as an official car, either.

 

[evme]

It's bizarre that a public official of her rank believed that she should be entitled to procure an official car in that price class. With the huge rebates available for government procurement an E-Class would have cost half as much. If she believes in making a statement for the environment, she is kindly invited to use public transport and to use a Golf from the car pool if that isn't an option.
It's also quite reasonable for tax payers to expect officials to support local industry. You wouldn't see a mid-level public official in Michigan using a S-Class as an official car, either.

But are we not getting into a catch 22 here? You see criticism of why are politicians asking us to get electric cars if they don't drive them themselves. Now you have a politician driving one and people complain because it is not a local brand? What if the Mercedes B electric or Golf have too low range to meet their needs? The statement here is the German brand needs to catch up and make a long range electric car.

Also, I am pretty sure the government probably covers the gas cost but does not cover electricity cost of politician.

 

[maxwell]

Also, I am pretty sure the government probably covers the gas cost but does not cover electricity cost of politician.

If you make a journey use your private car for business purposes you can get a compensation. In 2014 this is 0,30 €/km for a car (not relevant if electric or ICE). Other types of transportation have different costs. It's fixed in a law that i would translate as the "Federal Law of Journey Costs", the "Bundesreisekostengesetz".

 

[Just a Reader]

Currently very few people bother about politicians driving electric cars one way or the other. Support for electric cars is hardly a very popular demand. Most big cities have made it very clear that they do not support privileges for electric cars and they don't want to have private cars mucking up their public transport lanes, whatever propulsion system they may have.
At any rate there is no justification for a rather obscure mid-level politician to waste tens of thousands of Euros of tax payer money just because she wants to make a statement on electric cars. If she is allowed to use her private car for official business she gets a fixed reimbursement irrespective of the car she drives.

 

[maxwell]

Thanks for links maxwell, very informative. For some reason, I could not open the attachment.

Thank you Auzie, it's fun to contribute. I try to post that picture again:

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Currently very few people bother about politicians driving electric cars one way or the other. Support for electric cars is hardly a very popular demand. Most big cities have made it very clear that they do not support privileges for electric cars and they don't want to have private cars mucking up their public transport lanes, whatever propulsion system they may have.
At any rate there is no justification for a rather obscure mid-level politician to waste tens of thousands of Euros of tax payer money just because she wants to make a statement on electric cars. If she is allowed to use her private car for official business she gets a fixed reimbursement irrespective of the car she drives.

Sure it's a regional mid-level politics topic, not country shaking news. At least the Stuttgart News reported a lot of positive feedback on saturday from it's readers for the courageously politician.

Stuttgart News Article:
http://www.stuttgarter-nachrichten.de/inhalt.us-dienstwagen-stoesst-auf-beifall-regional-chefin-mit-zivilcourage.0a30c66b-0c28-4da3-9c24-d9120d74325b.html

 

[evme]

Currently very few people bother about politicians driving electric cars one way or the other. Support for electric cars is hardly a very popular demand. Most big cities have made it very clear that they do not support privileges for electric cars and they don't want to have private cars mucking up their public transport lanes, whatever propulsion system they may have.
At any rate there is no justification for a rather obscure mid-level politician to waste tens of thousands of Euros of tax payer money just because she wants to make a statement on electric cars. If she is allowed to use her private car for official business she gets a fixed reimbursement irrespective of the car she drives.

If she is using a private car, how is she using tens of thousands of Euros of tax payer money?

The point is, if she is using a private car, that is her business what she drives. If she is buying it as an official car, then she still ends up saving tax payer's money on gas and maintenance.

 

[Auzie]

Rego sticker?

Thank you Auzie, it's fun to contribute. I try to post that picture again:

View attachment 60306

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Sure it's a regional mid-level politics topic, not country shaking news. At least the Stuttgart News reported a lot of positive feedback on saturday from it's readers for the courageously politician.

Stuttgart News Article:
US-Dienstwagen stößt auf Beifall: Regional-Chefin „mit Zivilcourage“ - Stuttgart - Stuttgarter Nachrichten

Is that registration sticker in the right top corner?

We do not use these any more in Ozland. Feels like great progress, abolishing these

 

[Johann Koeber]

Is that registration sticker in the right top corner?

We do not use these any more in Ozland. Feels like great progress, abolishing these

It is the green badge indicating the low pollution level of the car.

In some cities only green badged cars may enter.

I got a ticket in Berlin for not having this sticker. I challenged the ticket, let's see if they let me go.

 

[Just a Reader]

If she is using a private car, how is she using tens of thousands of Euros of tax payer money?

The point is, if she is using a private car, that is her business what she drives. If she is buying it as an official car, then she still ends up saving tax payer's money on gas and maintenance.

She wanted to buy it as an official car first. She only switched to buying it as a private car after encountering massive criticism. There is absolutely no way she would have saved the public anything if she had bought it as an official car, as government procurement receives huge rebates from Mercedes/BMW/Audi in Germany. Additionally, electricity is quite expensive in Germany.

 

[Auzie]

It is the green badge indicating the low pollution level of the car.

In some cities only green badged cars may enter.

I got a ticket in Berlin for not having this sticker. I challenged the ticket, let's see if they let me go.

Ooo I really like that, green badged cars!!! How cool!

Now I see Germany in a different light. Less polluted:biggrin: light.

Hopefully you will resolve your ticket situation. I am curious how big is the fine for polluting? How does one get a green badge for a car?

For pollution lovers, pollution seems to be free here, unless someone dobs you in. Dobbing in is unlikely, judging by the exhausts fumes:crying: that I see every day around me. Maybe polluting engine gets picked up during registration checks, not sure, as I have not done registration checks for many years.

 

[maxwell]

There is an european emission standard: European emission standards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fine is 40 € according to this page: Environmental badge - Environmental badge

Depending on the EU emission standard of your vehicle the badge can be red, yellow or green: Umweltplakette/Feinstaubplakette - Informationen und Bestellmöglichkeit

 

[RobStark]

Europe Aug 2014 % '13Pl

1 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 1.144 12.114 20 3

2 Nissan Leaf 1.038 9.206 15 1

3 BMW i3 672 6.428 11 12

4 Tesla Model S 460 6.302 11 7

5 Renault Zoe 454 4.742 8 2

6 Volkswagen e-Up! 495 4.572 8 11

7 Volvo V60 Plug-In 244 3.930 7 4

8 Renault Kangoo ZE 295 2.495 4 5

9 Renault Twizy 208 1.565 3 10

10 Smart Fortwo ED 81 1.456 2​

 

[32no]

Europe Aug 2014 % '13Pl

1 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 1.144 12.114 20 3

2 Nissan Leaf 1.038 9.206 15 1

3 BMW i3 672 6.428 11 12

4 Tesla Model S 460 6.302 11 7

5 Renault Zoe 454 4.742 8 2

6 Volkswagen e-Up! 495 4.572 8 11

7 Volvo V60 Plug-In 244 3.930 7 4

8 Renault Kangoo ZE 295 2.495 4 5

9 Renault Twizy 208 1.565 3 10

10 Smart Fortwo ED 81 1.456 2​

The 460 number excludes UK, while the 398 number for Model S in July includes UK.

 

[Auzie]

There is an european emission standard: European emission standards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fine is 40 € according to this page: Environmental badge - Environmental badge

Depending on the EU emission standard of your vehicle the badge can be red, yellow or green: Umweltplakette/Feinstaubplakette - Informationen und Bestellmöglichkeit

Thanks for links. After reading about the system, I realize it is different to what I thought it was. It seems to be almost like a toll for entering certain zones, providing vehicle qualifies for the zone.

40 € fine for non compliance seems to be low. Also badge seems to last as long as car registration. These seem to be symbolic measures, but I think they are still powerful.

High density population areas must deal with pollution in a more aggressive manner than low density areas. Hence EU has these regulations whilst in my country we have a freedom to pollute by unrestricted driving. There are some restricted areas where cars are not allowed, but the restriction is in place to ensure less traffic congestion, not less pollution.

I would not mind paying for a green badge, I like the message that such regulation conveys.

 

[StapleGun]

If I'm reading this webpage correctly it suggests 104 sales in Norway in September.

 

[uselesslogin]

If I'm reading this webpage correctly it suggests 104 sales in Norway in September.

I can't open it but it wouldn't be terribly surprising. It seems that many overseas customers that were built shortly after the line opened had their delivery slip into October. Others slipped even further because they presumably started making NA cars once they knew they would be unable to reach their destinations overseas before the end of the quarter.

 

[RobStark]

I got this from ev sales blogspot. Is it correct?

Germany

Electric vehicles and plug-ins in Germany are exempt from the annual circulation tax for a period of five years from the date of their first registration.

The private use of a company car is treated as taxable income in Germany and measured at a flat monthly rate of 1% of the vehicle's gross list price. So plug-in electric cars have been at a disadvantage since their price tag can be as much as double that of a car using a conventional internal combustion engine due to the high cost of the battery. In June 2013 German legislators approved a law that ends the tax disadvantage for corporate plug-in electric cars. The law allows private users to offset the list price with €500 per unit of battery size, expressed in kWh. The maximum offset was set at €10,000 corresponding to a 20 kWh battery.


In August 2014, the federal government announced its plan to introduce non-monetary incentives through new legislation to be effective by 1 February 2015. The proposed user benefits include measures to privilege battery-powered cars, fuel cell vehicles and some plug-in hybrids, just like Norway does, by granting local governments the authority to allow these vehicles into bus lanes, and to offer free parking and reserved parking spaces in locations with charging points. Not all plug-in hybrids will qualify for the benefits, only those with CO 2 emissions of no more than 50 g/km or with electric range of over 30 km (19 mi) are eligible.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

If I'm reading this webpage correctly it suggests 104 sales in Norway in September.

Some good news from The Netherlands though: 289 Model S delivered in September! There were 70 in August and 31 in July, so 390 go towards Q3.

Source for September: http://www.bovag.nl/data/sitemanagement/media/20141001%20personenautoverkopen%20september%202014.pdf
Source for August: http://www.bovag.nl/data/sitemanagement/media/20140904%20personenautoverkopen%20augustus%202014.pdf
Source for July: http://www.bovag.nl/data/sitemanagement/media/20140801%20personenautoverkopen%20juli%202014(1).pdf