EU Model 3: AC charging speed?

[Arvoreen]

Sorry for the delay.
I switched off the fuse of ohase 2 & 3 to off.

Regarding km/h charging. Also 3 Phase charging showed only 47km/h Could be that the car was heating and so on.

 

[Arvoreen]

48A In europe will not be easy to find as most houses have only 3x40A and also the charging cables are for 3x32A max and so on...

 

[Moppie]

Appologies if already answered but I could not find it back clearly in this post.

Recently had 3phase home charger installed able to handle 20A max.
I know Model3 has limit today of AC 11kW (16A charge limit).

Main question I have is if anyone knows if the 11kW model3 AC charging limitation in the car is HW or SW based?
Just wondering if future SW update is possible to raise the ceiling and increase AC charging speeds.

 

[Rocky_H]

Main question I have is if anyone knows if the 11kW model3 AC charging limitation in the car is HW or SW based?
Just wondering if future SW update is possible to raise the ceiling and increase AC charging speeds.

Hardware. They do not have any software limited onboard chargers any more. There was only a very tiny group of Model X vehicles when that was first introduced that had software locked chargers. The Model 3 does not have that at all.

 

[user212_nr]

That seems to be the trend that Tesla is going toward: medium speed capability in the cars for AC charging, but relying on more locations of fast DC charging. This makes decent sense so they don't need to keep including such expensive high power chargers in every single car.

Agree, why pay for the charger if you don't need it. Tesla has been keeping things simple and removing what they determine to be unnecessary.

If you consider that in Europe the vast majority of Type 2 charging points delivers 22 kW, and if you take the position of someone who cannot charge at home and has to use every opportunity he can get to top up I would not say 11 kW makes perfect sense. It is much more a missed opportunity to cover the needs of these people. Supercharging is not acceptable for this use case because it does not scale; if you have 500 Model 3's in a city you cant supercharge all of them. If home charging is not an option you charge at the supermarket, you charge at the train station, you charge near someones house you visit. Each time you don't have 7 hours, but only one, or possibly three. This is sufficient with 22 kW. It is not worth connecting the cable with 11 kW for an hour. 16.5 would still have been a nice compromise.

But we will see. The problem might disappear once cities learn that widespread charging infrastructure in the streets is important, so you can "home charge" near to your house. There 3 kW is enough.

I don't really see this location -> location charging being a thing, especially with Teslas. For people who don't have home or work charging, there is supercharging. A large number of people who have on-street parking simply don't buy car and there is still enough demand for now.

Also, just because Tesla included a 22kw charger doesn't mean that L2 stations capable of 22kw would popup in any meaningful number at retail locations. The most reasonable solution to the on-street parking issue short-term is work charging.

 

[Rocky_H]

Agree, why pay for the charger if you don't need it. Tesla has been keeping things simple and removing what they determine to be unnecessary.

I don't think I actually agree with it, though. I do wish higher powered chargers were still an option.

I don't really see this location -> location charging being a thing, especially with Teslas. For people who don't have home or work charging, there is supercharging.

...except where there isn't. This is the part that is still bugging me. Installation costs are inversely related to available quantity. It is not all that big of an expense or trouble for a place to put an AC wall connector of some kind on an 80 or 100A circuit. You get a few of those around because it's not a lot of work or expense to get them added. But what business is going to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a DC fast charging station? Basically none, so that is left up to the charging network companies, who have the double edged sword. It's really expensive to put them in, so they have to charge horrible amounts for the electricity in order to basically not lose quite as much money.

 

[user212_nr]

I don't think I actually agree with it, though. I do wish higher powered chargers were still an option.

...except where there isn't. This is the part that is still bugging me. Installation costs are inversely related to available quantity. It is not all that big of an expense or trouble for a place to put an AC wall connector of some kind on an 80 or 100A circuit. You get a few of those around because it's not a lot of work or expense to get them added. But what business is going to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a DC fast charging station? Basically none, so that is left up to the charging network companies, who have the double edged sword. It's really expensive to put them in, so they have to charge horrible amounts for the electricity in order to basically not lose quite as much money.

With the range of cars having reached 200+, you don't need to charge up to do your errands. In the off-chance that you do, there will be a supercharger somewhere. The SC capacity will also be there for others who are taking trips, so there is no wasted charger being built for the needs for 0-1 people. Tesla doesn't even pay for any L2 charging installs anymore.

What we really need is a massive public-works project to install chargers on every street, apartment, and workplace.Its a massive problem because it is cheaper to wire an entire garage, parking lot, or street than to wire each space individually, yet its also a waste to overbuild and then find that EV adoption takes longer than expected. Its not happening, but maybe it is because there are still not enough electric vehicles being sold. Plenty of people who either have L2 at home or can make do with supercharging. The number of people with garages far exceeds the number of EVs being sold, and probably will for the next 10-20 years.

So best to save a few hundred dollar per car where you can and get more cars sold.

 

[Rocky_H]

...except where there isn't.

With the range of cars having reached 200+, you don't need to charge up to do your errands. In the off-chance that you do, there will be a supercharger somewhere. The SC capacity will also be there for others who are taking trips, so there is no wasted charger being built for the needs for 0-1 people.

Perhaps my message wasn't clear. You are still thinking locally, talking about "running errands", and I'm talking about travel routes. There are still several routes near me that are the only direct reasonable path to somewhere, but it happens to be a U.S. federal highway or a state highway, but is not an interstate, and Tesla seems very tunnel-vision about only putting Superchargers on the interstates for the most part.

So for these travel routes, the cost is very reasonable for businesses to put in a 70-80 amp AC wall connector to meet that need where there is not a Supercharger to use to travel there. And it is unfortunate that Tesla is removing the capability from the cars to make use of that extra available charging power.

 

[user212_nr]

Perhaps my message wasn't clear. You are still thinking locally, talking about "running errands", and I'm talking about travel routes. There are still several routes near me that are the only direct reasonable path to somewhere, but it happens to be a U.S. federal highway or a state highway, but is not an interstate, and Tesla seems very tunnel-vision about only putting Superchargers on the interstates for the most part.

So for these travel routes, the cost is very reasonable for businesses to put in a 70-80 amp AC wall connector to meet that need where there is not a Supercharger to use to travel there. And it is unfortunate that Tesla is removing the capability from the cars to make use of that extra available charging power.

It is easy to disagree with all the places where Tesla chose to save $100 on the car and say "its only $20 or $100 on a 40k purchase".

For example, Tesla Model 3 did not come with a key, and someone could have said "I wanted one".

For example, they only have 3 variants (SR+, AWD, P) when they could have offered more skews.

Just examples - we know that Tesla deliberately went through their car and products to make cheaper whatever they could reasonably do.

Apple is very similar, removing the CD drive, headphone jack, changing ports, etc.

It all seems objectionable when you consider "that one person" or worrying about "inconveniencing" millions of people, but it seems to me that they are making the right decisions. All the little savings add up to keep their margins healthy and push the industry forward.

 

[Rocky_H]

It is easy to disagree with all the places where Tesla chose to save $100 on the car and say "its only $20 or $100 on a 40k purchase".

For example, Tesla Model 3 did not come with a key, and someone could have said "I wanted one".

For example, they only have 3 variants (SR+, AWD, P) when they could have offered more skews.

Do you really not see that you are arguing against yourself with this very example? They could save even more money by only making the short range version of the car and not offering any extra-cost bigger battery version. That would save them so much more money by not offering anything better as an option!!!

That's why your protests don't really make much sense. As an extra cost option, they could leave it out of most of the cars and have that savings, but still make extra money by selling it as an add-on to people who want it.

 

[user212_nr]

Do you really not see that you are arguing against yourself with this very example? They could save even more money by only making the short range version of the car and not offering any extra-cost bigger battery version. That would save them so much more money by not offering anything better as an option!!!

That's why your protests don't really make much sense. As an extra cost option, they could leave it out of most of the cars and have that savings, but still make extra money by selling it as an add-on to people who want it.

This is sarcasm. Not offering the larger battery version and making only 1 version would mean that all customers pay the same amount no matter how much they are willing to pay. That is different than making a custom car for a few people.

 

[Rocky_H]

This is sarcasm. Not offering the larger battery version and making only 1 version would mean that all customers pay the same amount no matter how much they are willing to pay. That is different than making a custom car for a few people.

How is that any different in any way whatsoever?! You are suggesting making the less capable car as the only one available and not offering the more capable version as an option to anyone. It's exactly the same thing.

 

[davewill]

OP would get more help in the UK and Ireland subforum. I know that EU cars have three 16a modules in their chargers, allowing 3*16a=11kW charging on three phase power. That would imply that the best it could do on one phase is 16a (3.6kW), however I know that some of the older cars were able to connect two of the modules to the one phase and get 32a charging on single phase (7.4kW). I also know that some wall connectors were wired to put the single phase on multiple power pins, but this was dangerous and could damage non-Teslas and I think people stopped doing that.

I don't know for sure what the state of things are for Model 3 right now.

 

[mat1990dj]

Last posts are not great....
Following on the discussion, I've got an european Model 3 SR+, and can charge at 3x16 => 11kW or at 1x32 => 7.4kW
It's obvious that it's bridging two internal OBC to get the 32Ams.
Even though 1x48A is totally unknown for me to find in europe (in fact, 1x32 is the maximum that I can find anywhere in EU), this could explain the "software" limitation

 

[Vette]

In UK it is possible to have 48 amps single phase.
Most newer domestic properties have 100 amp incomer.
DB could be easily accommodate a 50A MCB.