Tesla Model S 2015 70D slow charging - CCS upgrade

[MP3Mike]

Now, whether or not the CCS and CHAdeMO option really require Tesla NACS SuC to be enabled first, can you shed any light on that? The SM said they do, making them irrelevant. Id prefer NOT to do CHAdeMO anyway as it is being phased out and being replaced with CCS, and, admittedly I haven't researched this much myself, but what I've read is that CHAdeMO is less frequently available at non-Tesla L3 fast dc chargers, often with only 1-2 plugs available, and not always functional. So to invest even $2K for a license and used adapter would be pushing it.

Again, the point would not to be purchasing a CHAdeMO adapter and using CHAdeMO chargers. It would be getting the "other DC fast charging" option enabled on your car which would likely allow the CCS retrofit to work if it was reinstalled.

Maybe ask your service center if they are willing to enable CHAdeMO, install the CCS retrofit, and then test if CCS charging actually works. And if it does you pay the ~$2k. (~$1,500 for enabling CHAdeMO and ~$500 for the CCS retrofit) If it doesn't they could turn it back off, remove the CCS retrofit, and maybe you just pay for an hour, or two, of labor. (My guess is that they will say no, but they might have been open to trying it if you asked before they removed the CCS retrofit the first time.)

 

[scgaskill]

Now, whether or not the CCS and CHAdeMO option really require Tesla NACS SuC to be enabled first, can you shed any light on that? The SM said they do, making them irrelevant. Id prefer NOT to do CHAdeMO anyway as it is being phased out and being replaced with CCS, and, admittedly I haven't researched this much myself, but what I've read is that CHAdeMO is less frequently available at non-Tesla L3 fast dc chargers, often with only 1-2 plugs available, and not always functional. So to invest even $2K for a license and used adapter would be pushing it. I've got the money mind you, but I'd rather spend it on other activities, such as live aboard dive boats (I'm an avid scuba diver!)

I even asked the SMif maybe the only issue when I got the CCS Retrofit kit and adapter, was if the tech forgot to enable that "other DC fast charging" option. The tech told me that I was the first in the area that had bought this and so I can easily understand if it was missed or it is not well documented yet. The SM just reiterated that I needed to have SuC licensed as the root cause.

I've thought about dropping in to another SC and asking them, to see if I get the same or a different answer. The SM mentioned sending out an alert to his colleagues to be aware of this issue. I looked on Tesla.com to see if there was any easy way to get an answer from corporate directly but didn't see a "contact us" type freeform messaging capability. Any ideas?

 

[scgaskill]

Are you sure the $12k wasn’t for a refurb 85 battery that included free unlimited supercharging? That sounds more reasonable to me

 

[scgaskill]

Are you sure the $12k wasn’t for a refurb 85 battery that included free unlimited supercharging? That sounds more reasonable to me

I was thinking similarly. When they installed the CCS Retrofit kit and I tried to use it, and it didn't work, I called roadside assistance. The first thing they said was that my 40kW battery pack needed to be upgraded to 60kW.

That's not the case, and even if it was, it's not a physical pack replacement it's a license to use the full 60kW. My understanding is only the roadster actually had a 40kW battery pack, the early MS60's all had 60kW packs but some "bargain" 60's were software limited to only use 40kW.

My MS60 has a 60kW pack and is licensed to use it all. My estimated range is consistent with a 60kW pack (208 miles) vs a 40kW (139 miles). An upgrade to an 85kW pack would be a physical replacement but that not the reason the SuC license is $12K, it is because it includes lifetime free SuC which I neither want or need. I need a REASONABLY priced, limited use, pay-as-you-go subscription model that apparently doesn't exist! It's either ALL or NONE, and neither are good choices.

 

[scgaskill]

True but it’s just a flag Tesla can enable. They are probably trying to get him out of that 40kwh battery

I don't have a 40kW battery pack or a software limited 60kW batter pack, I have a fully functional 60kW battery pack. My estimated range is 208 miles which is the estimated range for a 60kW battery pack. The 40kW had a range of 139 miles and that's the EPA Estimated range which is usually optimistic.

 

[scgaskill]

True but it’s just a flag Tesla can enable. They are probably trying to get him out of that 40kwh battery

Have either of you seen this "other DC fast charging" setting recently in current software? I'm trying to give the SC the benefit of doubt and was thinking maybe that option had been removed or changed recently and that you guys are referencing an older option no longer available. My software is 2022.8.10.16

 

[Rocky_H]

Id prefer NOT to do CHAdeMO anyway as it is being phased out and being replaced with CCS,

You keep coming back to that, but we're not saying to actually get an adapter and use CHAdeMO stations. That option is just to enable other forms of DC charging than Tesla (TM) Supercharger stations. So we think it should be viable that if that is turned on, it should enable use of both CHAdeMO and CCS (with that extra charge port board upgrade).

Have either of you seen this "other DC fast charging" setting recently in current software? I'm trying to give the SC the benefit of doubt and was thinking maybe that option had been removed or changed recently and that you guys are referencing an older option no longer available.

That is the same thing as the CHAdeMO enable switch we're referring to. You probably won't find it listed anywhere, but it can still be done if you talk to enough people at Tesla service to find someone who can look it up and find out what it is.

But again, I'm not sure if that option plus CCS upgrade can make it fully work, or if there really is some reason why it needs the official Supercharger switch.

 

[tesluv108]

Have either of you seen this "other DC fast charging" setting recently in current software? I'm trying to give the SC the benefit of doubt and was thinking maybe that option had been removed or changed recently and that you guys are referencing an older option no longer available. My software is 2022.8.10.16

How many miles on this car? How long do you want to keep it? If you want it for a long time see if Tesla will wheel and deal and give you perhaps a 90kwh refurb pack and throw in the supercharging. Or at least turn on supercharging and have it as a pay option. I bet that refurb would get you 8 year min

 

[scgaskill]

You keep coming back to that, but we're not saying to actually get an adapter and use CHAdeMO stations. That option is just to enable other forms of DC charging than Tesla (TM) Supercharger stations. So we think it should be viable that if that is turned on, it should enable use of both CHAdeMO and CCS (with that extra charge port board upgrade).

That is the same thing as the CHAdeMO enable switch we're referring to. You probably won't find it listed anywhere, but it can still be done if you talk to enough people at Tesla service to find someone who can look it up and find out what it is.

But again, I'm not sure if that option plus CCS upgrade can make it fully work, or if there really is some reason why it needs the official Supercharger switch.

I'm being told that all options first require the $12k SuC license.

I understand your suggestion that I license CHAdeMO for the sole purpose of getting "other fast dc charging" enabled w/o needing $12k SuC, and then buy the CCS Retro Kit to get the CCS adapter and minor hardware upgrade in the hopes that it will work because of the "other fast dc charging" being enabled. That would cost, according to the SM $485 for CCS Retrofit kit + $510 for the CHAdeMO license, total approx $1k with no real idea if it'll work, just your theorizing that it could/should/might work. According to the SM it won't w/o the additional $12k SuC license. I don't feel like gambling $1k for, I'm assuming, non-refundable licenses inte slim hope that that reveals a loophole! If someone else has already done it and confirm that it'll work I may feel differently.

I kept going back to actually using CHAdeMO as CHAdeMO because I'm sure I've read that it DIDNT require the underlying $12k SuC license, that the CHAdeMO license was all that was required. But the SM is saying it also requires the $12k SuC license. So, who do I believe?

 

[scgaskill]

How many miles on this car? How long do you want to keep it? If you want it for a long time see if Tesla will wheel and deal and give you perhaps a 90kwh refurb pack and throw in the supercharging. Or at least turn on supercharging and have it as a pay option. I bet that refurb would get you 8 year min

It's a 2014 MS 60. It had just under 40K miles on it when I bought it 3 months ago, now 41.7K miles. I'm coming up on 62 (April this year) and hope to retire in the next 2-4 years. I did plan on keeping this car for many years into retirement.

I love the car, it was well kept and has very low miles. I can count on one hand the number of 150+ mile road trips I've made in the last 35 years. I don't want or need SuC for that.

As I've said before, I just want it as an insurance policy against running low on battery for any number of reasons, in the suburban Chicago area, and having to spend 2-3 hours at a L2 destination charger charging at 5-6kWh rates. If I have to make a couple extra unplanned stops I'd like to be able to go to somevtypevof L3 DC Fast Charger and in 15-30 minutes, go from say 10% SOC to 30-40%, whatever is required to make it back home where I can then use my own L2 home charger at 9 kWh rate, charging up for the next trip.

I'm in sales and work from home. Most of my customers are not fully back in the office and don't have on-prem meetings, but will occasionally meet for lunch. They are all over the Chicago suburbs. I'm in the far west suburbs near Aurora IL. Most of Chicagoland is within range, but the northern suburbs are pushing it. Wisconsin is out, but I don't cover WI, I have a colleague who does. But on occasion I may need to go there for joint calls.

This happened before the holidays, I had a meeting with him in Waukegan, 85 miles from home. That would use approx. 60% of my range. I don't want to get 2/3rds of the way home only to have to sit and park for 1-2 hours to get enough charge to safely make it home! This should be a once-in-a-blue-moon 15 minute stop at a L3 charger. Instead I left the Tesla home and drove my old hybrid and had no issues making the round-trip drive.

Sad that Tesla doesn't have any option for guys like me. This is my first Tesla. I didn't search out a Tesla. I was looking at used cars and not excited with the usual ICEs or hybrids. Then I found this low milage beauty. Did I know all the nuances of all this? No. I did take the car to the SC before I bought it to have it inspected. I was told that enabling SuC would cost me $2.5K not $12K.

Even for my limited use case, $2500 seemed like a lot for a feature I would rarely use, and I decided to hold off until I had some experience with the car, better understood it's actual range, etc.

At $450 plus tax, the CCS option seemed like a good one. The SC didn't do their own due diligence to confirm that my car could use the CCS option, they just sold it and installed it.

Now I'm told it doesn't, and to get it to work requires, sorry, not an additional $2500, but an additional $12,000, but hey it's Unlimited Free SuperCharging, you should be grateful we're giving you this fabulous opportunity. Thanks but no thanks Elon, not interested.

I just won't drive the MS 60 for trips that exceed the range. I'm not going to "wheel and deal" and spend, say, $8K for a feature I will rarely use. I know what my driving pattern is and what I need.

I don't have family in the Midwest that I travel to see. I don't drive cross country. My wife is native Hawaiian. We vacation in Hawaii regularly. I don't drive to there, I drive to O'Hare airport that is well within range (but I will drive the old car to leave it in the lot or take an Uber).

I don't drive to Green Bay for Bears/Packers games. I support a Sales Rep that covers MO, IN, and KY. When I need to go out of state I rent a car from Enterprise rental 5 minutes from my house. Put the wear and tear on a rental car, it's expensible.

20/20 hindsight, do I wish I had done more research and passed on this car and got something with a longer range? Maybe. This car was very clean, had very low milage, and was a very good price. Would I find a similar car and great deal with a bigger battery pack? Maybe, eventually. Sure, an 85, 90, or 100 kWh battery would be nice and would make this irrelevant due to the additional 50 or more miles. Those, even w/o SuC would meet my needs 99.99% of the time vs 95%+ of the time my 60 kWh pack does now.

 

[scgaskill]

And of course, when I retire in a couple of years my range needs will be even less than they are today, so another reason to save my money for my next trip to Hawaii or my next live aboard dive trip! I love scuba, have been a diver for 40 years. Id much rather spend my money going diving than to enable a charging feature I'll rarely use!

 

[scgaskill]

I've finally gotten around to reading the Tesla SuperCharging page. The problem is, it assumes the users car is already licensed for SuC. Because of my 60 kW battery pack, and the number of cells it has, the best I think I can achieve would be about 75 kWh (based on a post of a 75 kW pack achieving 94 kWh rate) and I would be OK with that. I'm not expecting to change physics! Anywhere in the 60-75 kWh rate would be great compared to L2 destination chargers!

This is a 10x or more increase vs the L2 destination chargers I used before installing my home L2 charger. So the tier-1 or tier-2 subscription rates would be perfectly acceptable for the few times and the short duration I would use it. I just need a reasonable SuC "right to use" license, something more in the range of $1000-1500, and if Tesla wants to limit the estimated miles or kW that I can use, Id be OK with that too.

I thought of a good(?) Analogy... When gas was $4 a gallon in the burbs where I live, in downtown Chicago it was like $5.50. If I ended up downtown and low on gas I wouldn't fill the tank at those rates, Id put $10-20 worth of gas in the tank, enough to get back out to the burbs where gas was relatively at least, cheaper. That's kind of how I would use the SuC, just enough to get home w/o a huge delay sloooowly charging!

 

[scgaskill]

Ok, last post for the night!

I guess what really bothers me about this is that Tesla just doesn't care, and seems to have no interest in helping me with this. It feels like I'm getting a big middle finger. It's like they're saying "sucks to be YOU! You should have bought a NEW Tesla rather than a used car that we don't really want to deal with. Its YOUR fault that you didn't do tons of research to figure all this out in advance, and you actually believed us when we mistakenly told you that SuC could be added for $2500". Bahahahaha! Go away kid, you're bothering me!

The fact is it would cost Tesla next to nothing to let me use SuC like the rest of the cars they've sold in the past several years after all these licensing schemes used to meet specific price points for their cars were dropped. Implementing some type of limited use license like I've proposed could be easily implemented for the relatively small number of customers like me that have these older models. These are the kinds of stories that keep skeptical ICE car buyers from considering an EV and are slowing EV adoption. Range anxiety is real.

How can I contact Tesla Corporate to 1) confirm what my SC is telling me is true, and 2) floating my idea of a limited use license? I have no illusions that I can get them to change this for me, but I'd at least like to give it a try!

Like they said in Dumb and Dumber.... 1:1,000,000.... So you say I have a chance!

 

[MP3Mike]

How can I contact Tesla Corporate to 1) confirm what my SC is telling me is true, and 2) floating my idea of a limited use license? I have no illusions that I can get them to change this for me, but I'd at least like to give it a try!

There have been many people that have tried to get pay-per-use Supercharging on these older Model Ss and Tesla has never budged. Up until recently it was only $2,500 to enable, but it sounds like they may have upped the price because they don't want any additional FUSC vehicles out there. (There are actively trying to eliminate them.)

Here are some of the past threads:

Supercharging for an Early Model S - Can't Tesla do the right thing?

I was an early investor in Tesla (pre IPO). On April 17 of 2014, I purchased a Model S for $80k+. I currently have 31k miles on the car. When I purchased the car, I decided to not pay the $2.5k for unlimited Supercharging (SC) since I installed a home charger and was planning on only using the...

teslamotorsclub.com

Tesla, please enable pay-per-use supercharging for original 40/60kWh cars

Original 60kWh buyers were given an option to purchase unlimited supercharging for $2,000, while 40kWh were not given the option at all. All of the cars that did not purchase supercharging actually have the necessary hardware. Now that pay-per-use is implemented, it would be a great gift for the...

teslamotorsclub.com

Would like pay-per-use Supercharger access for 2014 Model S

I've had my Model S 60 since 2014, and did not pay for the unlimited Supercharger access since I don't take enough road trips to justify the $2000 up-front cost. Now that the pay-per-use option has been made available to newer owners, that seems like the ideal solution for me since it costs...

teslamotorsclub.com

Supercharging Eligible 2013 Model S

I recently brought a 2013 Tesla Model S with only about 80K miles, one owner from a non tesla dealership. When I brought the car I saw the message that said to add payment to use supercharging. Did that and when I went to supercharge, it would not work. I call tesla and they said I have to pay...

teslamotorsclub.com

Current owners of 40 kWh configuration

…I just slid the charge bar all the way to the right and it went to 100%… Did the bar not previously go to 100%? Any chance the software just changed so that 100% is now 40kWh, instead of 60kWh?

teslamotorsclub.com

As far as contacting Tesla your best bet is to post on X at Elon, but I really don't think you will get anywhere. There just aren't enough of those vehicles around for them to bother. (I personally think they should just enable pay-per-use on all of them, but that would add slow charging vehicles to the network which is another thing they don't want to do.)

 

[scgaskill]

There have been many people that have tried to get pay-per-use Supercharging on these older Model Ss and Tesla has never budged. Up until recently it was only $2,500 to enable, but it sounds like they may have upped the price because they don't want any additional FUSC vehicles out there. (There are actively trying to eliminate them.)

Here are some of the past threads:

Supercharging for an Early Model S - Can't Tesla do the right thing?

I was an early investor in Tesla (pre IPO). On April 17 of 2014, I purchased a Model S for $80k+. I currently have 31k miles on the car. When I purchased the car, I decided to not pay the $2.5k for unlimited Supercharging (SC) since I installed a home charger and was planning on only using the...

teslamotorsclub.com

Tesla, please enable pay-per-use supercharging for original 40/60kWh cars

Original 60kWh buyers were given an option to purchase unlimited supercharging for $2,000, while 40kWh were not given the option at all. All of the cars that did not purchase supercharging actually have the necessary hardware. Now that pay-per-use is implemented, it would be a great gift for the...

teslamotorsclub.com

Would like pay-per-use Supercharger access for 2014 Model S

I've had my Model S 60 since 2014, and did not pay for the unlimited Supercharger access since I don't take enough road trips to justify the $2000 up-front cost. Now that the pay-per-use option has been made available to newer owners, that seems like the ideal solution for me since it costs...

teslamotorsclub.com

Supercharging Eligible 2013 Model S

I recently brought a 2013 Tesla Model S with only about 80K miles, one owner from a non tesla dealership. When I brought the car I saw the message that said to add payment to use supercharging. Did that and when I went to supercharge, it would not work. I call tesla and they said I have to pay...

teslamotorsclub.com

Current owners of 40 kWh configuration

…I just slid the charge bar all the way to the right and it went to 100%… Did the bar not previously go to 100%? Any chance the software just changed so that 100% is now 40kWh, instead of 60kWh?

teslamotorsclub.com

As far as contacting Tesla your best bet is to post on X at Elon, but I really don't think you will get anywhere. There just aren't enough of those vehicles around for them to bother. (I personally think they should just enable pay-per-use on all of them, but that would add slow charging vehicles to the network which is another thing they don't want to do.)

Thanks Mike. I'll read through the past threads tomorrow night, gotta get to sleep now. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that I'm not the first to run into this. And like I say, it doesn't really affect me much in my normal day-to-day driving. It's just that "safety net" concept that I don't have. I've still got a safety net with destination chargers, it's just that they're so ungodly slow! L2 is fine for home / overnight, but not for those emergency situations when the best laid plans of mice and men fail leaving you stranded and wanting to get home!

 

[scgaskill]

You mention two things that caught my attention
1- that enabling SuC has been $2500 until recently, which is what I was initially told
2 - that Tesla wants to get rid of the FUSC cars, which I've also read. So odd that that is the only option they are giving me, FUSC whether I want/need it or not! I thought they wanted to do away with that, so why offer it to me then, if I cough up $12 grand?!?!?

 

[scgaskill]

This is why I want to talk to SOMEBODY at Tesla other than my local SC to confirm that the SC isn't incorrect in what they've been telling me! Maybe it really IS still just $2500. Still more than I want to pay, but over time I may come around and grudgingly agree to cough it up.

 

[tesluv108]

You mention two things that caught my attention
1- that enabling SuC has been $2500 until recently, which is what I was initially told
2 - that Tesla wants to get rid of the FUSC cars, which I've also read. So odd that that is the only option they are giving me, FUSC whether I want/need it or not! I thought they wanted to do away with that, so why offer it to me then, if I cough up $12 grand?!?!?

Sounds like you only have two options here.
One of them (option 2) is at the mercy of Tesla.
1. Sell your car and get a new model 3. It might be 17-20k, but you will have a newer car that will supercharge at around 130kwh. Also a bumper to bumper warranty for 4 full years and 8 years of battery warranty. You may even get free supercharging for 6 months. You will also get 272 miles of range on the base 3 and from my experience with a newer late 2023 build that car is extremely efficient compared to the older S cars.
2. Ask Tesla if a 90kwh refurb battery will get you the license. This will cost 12k+ but you then get 295 rated range and supercharger enabled. If they didn’t enable supercharging with this I’d dump the car.

 

[Rocky_H]

I don't feel like gambling $1k for, I'm assuming, non-refundable licenses inte slim hope that that reveals a loophole! If someone else has already done it and confirm that it'll work I may feel differently.

Agree. I wouldn't bet that money on my theory either. Not worth that.

I guess what really bothers me about this is that Tesla just doesn't care, and seems to have no interest in helping me with this. It feels like I'm getting a big middle finger. It's like they're saying "sucks to be YOU! You should have bought a NEW Tesla rather than a used car that we don't really want to deal with. Its YOUR fault that you didn't do tons of research to figure all this out in advance, and you actually believed us when we mistakenly told you that SuC could be added for $2500". Bahahahaha! Go away kid, you're bothering me!

Well, you're couching this as petty and malicious. I think it's more about inexperienced. All of their cars for about the past 8 years have always included Supercharger ability, so I've seen plenty of reports here on the forum from employees in Tesla sales and service who had no clue that Tesla EVER sold any cars that COULDN'T Supercharge. So this is obscure edge cases for a lot of them where there is some lack of knowledge of what to do with them. And most of the people you are dealing with aren't authorized to just create a policy that they don't have.

These are the kinds of stories that keep skeptical ICE car buyers from considering an EV and are slowing EV adoption. Range anxiety is real.

Not really relevant or applicable because of this previous sentence:

for the relatively small number of customers like me that have these older models.

It's not just because it's an older model. It's because there were hardly any buyers who chose to not buy the Supercharger option. There are very few cars in this situation. All of the 85 battery size cars included it, and that was the very large majority of the Teslas sold back then. And then of the small percentage that were 60 size ones, still most people bought the Supercharger option with it. So this is the small end of the tail of the distribution.

And so this doesn't really affect about ICE car buyers being scared away from EVs because DC fast charging has been (almost) standard and included on (almost) every EV that has been made for the past decade. This just doesn't come up because it's a vanishingly small percentage that almost no one runs into from a very long ago time period. Yes, it's frustrating for you, but is extremely rare.

This is why I want to talk to SOMEBODY at Tesla other than my local SC to confirm that the SC isn't incorrect in what they've been telling me! Maybe it really IS still just $2500. Still more than I want to pay, but over time I may come around and grudgingly agree to cough it up.

Yeah, that might be the best option. It originally was about that price during original purchase configuration when placing an order. Maybe you can find a service manager at another service center who can find a way to work that out.

Ask Tesla if a 90kwh refurb battery will get you the license. This will cost 12k+ but you then get 295 rated range and supercharger enabled. If they didn’t enable supercharging with this I’d dump the car.

I already told you--the battery doesn't affect the Supercharging status.

 

[scgaskill]

Sounds like you only have two options here.
One of them (option 2) is at the mercy of Tesla.
1. Sell your car and get a new model 3. It might be 17-20k, but you will have a newer car that will supercharge at around 130kwh. Also a bumper to bumper warranty for 4 full years and 8 years of battery warranty. You may even get free supercharging for 6 months. You will also get 272 miles of range on the base 3 and from my experience with a newer late 2023 build that car is extremely efficient compared to the older S cars.
2. Ask Tesla if a 90kwh refurb battery will get you the license. This will cost 12k+ but you then get 295 rated range and supercharger enabled. If they didn’t enable supercharging with this I’d dump the car.

Wrong. Like I thought I made pretty clear, I'm very happy with the car just frustrated that there's no reasonably priced option to add SuC. Like I said earlier, my 60kW battery meets my needs 95% of the time, and when I retire in a few years it'll meet my needs almost 100% of the time.

I do not value FUSC as I would never use it much. Sorry but I'm just not obsessed with FUSC. That's not because "I just don't understand the benefit" it's because I DO fully understand my driving patterns and needs 99% of the time and I really don't need FUSC. I need minimal SuC as a "safety net" against getting stuck at a L2 destination charger for hours if circumstances cause me to run my battery low despite my best effort to estimate my range need for any particular day. I'm not going to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to:
1) negotiate FUSC at a discounted cost of what, like $5-8K?
2) swap out the battery pack to get get longer range and maybe FUSC
3) selling this car and spending thousands and thousands of dollars more to get get longer range and maybe FUSC

MY Option - I'll do what I've already said I'll do, I'll drive the MS 60 90%+ of the time and on those rare occasions when I need longer range I'll drive my old car I already own. And if I get rid of it at some point, my wife works part time now (3 days a week) and is thinking of retiring, so I can either switch cars with her for the day and she'll drive the MS 60 that day, or I'll just drive her car while she stays home that day. None of that requires me to spend thousands of dollars more. That is money better spent on trips to Hawaii and Aggressor Fleet dive trips!