Another concern would be that CHAdeMO seems to be being phased out with CCS replacing it for non-Tesla's, and NACS starting to be the adapter for non-Tesla cars in the future. Would I be investing in an obsolete tech that will be phased out in a short period of time? I'm sure there are a significant number of CHAdeMo cars out there so hopefully it'd be supported for at least the next 5+ years as these cars are out and leave the road.
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Tesla Model S 2015 70D slow charging - CCS upgrade
- Thread starter SiebePaess
- Start date
Again, the intent was not for you to use CHAdeMO, it was that enabling CHAdeMO would likely enable CCS at the same time. (CCS retrofit still necessary.)
But I'm not aware of anyone that has tested that configuration. (There just aren't that many people that could test it.)
Well. Tesla is saying my cars hardware isn't capable of either CCS or NACS Supercharging, so CHAdeMO is probably out too, unless it's at a low enough voltage/current to be compatible with my car. I've ping'd the Tesla Service Manager asking what HW/SW/license etc is required for CHAdeMO specifically for MY car and what those costs are, stay tuned. My guess is CHAdeMO is probably incompatible with my car as it currently sits without a hardware upgrade, but that's just a guess at this point.
The hardware in your car is absolutely capable. (Every single Model S they have made has the hardware to support Supercharging and CHAdeMO.)
The options are just turned off. There are two flags in the configuration, one for Supercharging and another for "Other DC fast charging" which used to be just for CHAdeMO, but I am guessing is for CCS as well now. (I am guessing that because when Tesla disables Supercharging on salvage vehicles, they don't turn off the "Other DC fast charging" flag, and the vehicles are still capable of charging via CHAdeMO and CCS.)
I appreciate the response and the confidence and I don't mean to be skeptical, but when the cost went from $2500, which certainly sounds like just a software license, to $12,000, that sounds a lot more like a hardware upgrade.
I asked the Service Manager if that meant I needed a new battery pack but he said no, that it was something else. I was sitting at a destination charger fuming as my new CCS feature had failed miserably, and wasn't too interested in a $12K upgrade so didn't ask for details.
When I first called roadside assistance yesterday the initial person told me I needed to replace my 40kW battery pack for a 60kW battery pack, which I already have, so excuse me for questioning their info! They've lost a lot of credibility with me now.
Previously when Id been to the service center I casually asked about Supercharging and have gotten conflicting answers, that it was just a license, to my DC charging gear may need to be replaced to handle the higher current needed for Supercharging, which at $12K makes a lot more sense, maybe $9.5K for the DC HW plus $2.5K for the software license?
The problem is that I have never had it formally quoted out to see exactly what it is that I would be buying and what each piece costs, assuming they give line item pricing. I don't need to know the cost of every nut and bolt mind you, but for $12K I'd like to know what that includes, particularly if it's a major hardware upgrade and not just a license.
The SM hasn't yet responded to my questions about CHAdeMO charging, if my car is compatible, and what I would need to purchase.
I asked the Service Manager if that meant I needed a new battery pack but he said no, that it was something else. I was sitting at a destination charger fuming as my new CCS feature had failed miserably, and wasn't too interested in a $12K upgrade so didn't ask for details.
When I first called roadside assistance yesterday the initial person told me I needed to replace my 40kW battery pack for a 60kW battery pack, which I already have, so excuse me for questioning their info! They've lost a lot of credibility with me now.
Previously when Id been to the service center I casually asked about Supercharging and have gotten conflicting answers, that it was just a license, to my DC charging gear may need to be replaced to handle the higher current needed for Supercharging, which at $12K makes a lot more sense, maybe $9.5K for the DC HW plus $2.5K for the software license?
The problem is that I have never had it formally quoted out to see exactly what it is that I would be buying and what each piece costs, assuming they give line item pricing. I don't need to know the cost of every nut and bolt mind you, but for $12K I'd like to know what that includes, particularly if it's a major hardware upgrade and not just a license.
The SM hasn't yet responded to my questions about CHAdeMO charging, if my car is compatible, and what I would need to purchase.
cousin_IT
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Not defending Tesla here, I think you shouldn’t be so upset about something you knew probably would not work. If it’s too good to be true it probably is.
Why would I know it probably wouldn't work? I've had my car about 3 months and am learning as I go. Tesla should have known it wouldn't work and they should have told me so, and what is needed to make it work. The Tesla tech should have known it wouldn't work before he installed it. Tesla should have known my car has a 60kW battery pack but they first tried to tell me it was 40kW and needed to be upgraded. Tesla f'd this up, not me. Minutes after the tech de-installed the kit I got several BMS alerts saying my car now needs service. I've got an appointment tomorrow. I hope they didn't f@@k up my car due to their incompetence.
I had my SC appt because of the BMS alerts. Initially they quoted me $2900 to replace my OBC1 with an OBC2. Since these only occured when the mobile tech removed the CCS Retrofit kit (within minutes of me giving him the key fob!), I was pretty certain that they were false alarms.
When I dropped off the car two days ago I said as much, and asked them to just check out the alerts to be sure it was OK. After getting the flurry of alerts that morning I have charged and driven the car with no further alerts reported.
Speaking with the SM, I mentioned some of the info I've gotten on these forums and he then had the nerve to tell me that my issue with the failed CCS Retrofit was self inflicted and my fault for not researching the upgrade more! WTF?!?!?! Read my prior posts on how I feel Tesla should have done their due diligence and not installed the kit.
Anyway, I stated that I wasn't convinced that I needed a new OBC.
A day later, the estimate changed to me needing a battery heater pump because of one of the BMS alerts. When I asked when that alert occured I was told that on 12/20 (before the CCS Retrofit install on 12/27) there was an "isolation alert" and then the alerts ("false alarms") on 12/29 when the tech removed the CCS Retrofit.
I asked to see the 12/20 "isolation alert" since it doesn't show in my Notifications, but i was told he couldn't show it to me due to company policy.
That leaves the alerts on 12/29, the "false alarms" I'm not convinced are relevant. I'm not paying $820 to replace a battery heater pump on that dubious evidence! If there's a legitimate error it should pop up pretty quickly. I can charge and preheat and it doesn't trigger additional alerts!
The SM did not charge me for the inspection and I didn't have anything replaced at this point. They also programmed a key fob I brought in and didn't charge me, which I appreciated after this whole fiasco.
I had asked for written estimates to enable Tesla NACS SuperCharging, CCS DC Fast charging, and CHAdeMO DC Fast charging. What I got was a brief message in the service appt on the mobile app saying that enabling SuperCharging would cost $12k but that would include lifetime free supercharging.
I was also told that CCS and CHAdeMO require this $12K SuperCharging license first, then $450 for the CCS Retrofit (includes the CCS Adapter) and/or $510 to enable CHAdeMO - not sure if the $510 is for just the license or for the license and an adapter - if I have to spend $12k first, it's irrelevant.
Does this sound right? $12K is an INSANE amount of money. When I had casually inquired about licensing SuperCharging previously during other service visits I was told it was $2500. I wasn't crazy about that let alone $12 grand!
What I'd like as an option would be a limited use SuC option for say $1000 for the "right to use" software license where I could use maybe 500 or 1000 miles per year, to just "top off" the battery if/when circumstances lead to being far from home (and by "far" I only mean 50-100 miles, not 1000 miles) to go from say 10% SOC to 30-50% relatively quickly (20-30 mins vs 2-3 hrs @ L2 charging rates) so I can relatively quickly get back home to my L2 home charger. I'd be happy to pay for the time charging. I just need "an insurance policy" for times like this - I'm not trying to do cross country trips!
When I dropped off the car two days ago I said as much, and asked them to just check out the alerts to be sure it was OK. After getting the flurry of alerts that morning I have charged and driven the car with no further alerts reported.
Speaking with the SM, I mentioned some of the info I've gotten on these forums and he then had the nerve to tell me that my issue with the failed CCS Retrofit was self inflicted and my fault for not researching the upgrade more! WTF?!?!?! Read my prior posts on how I feel Tesla should have done their due diligence and not installed the kit.
Anyway, I stated that I wasn't convinced that I needed a new OBC.
A day later, the estimate changed to me needing a battery heater pump because of one of the BMS alerts. When I asked when that alert occured I was told that on 12/20 (before the CCS Retrofit install on 12/27) there was an "isolation alert" and then the alerts ("false alarms") on 12/29 when the tech removed the CCS Retrofit.
I asked to see the 12/20 "isolation alert" since it doesn't show in my Notifications, but i was told he couldn't show it to me due to company policy.
That leaves the alerts on 12/29, the "false alarms" I'm not convinced are relevant. I'm not paying $820 to replace a battery heater pump on that dubious evidence! If there's a legitimate error it should pop up pretty quickly. I can charge and preheat and it doesn't trigger additional alerts!
The SM did not charge me for the inspection and I didn't have anything replaced at this point. They also programmed a key fob I brought in and didn't charge me, which I appreciated after this whole fiasco.
I had asked for written estimates to enable Tesla NACS SuperCharging, CCS DC Fast charging, and CHAdeMO DC Fast charging. What I got was a brief message in the service appt on the mobile app saying that enabling SuperCharging would cost $12k but that would include lifetime free supercharging.
I was also told that CCS and CHAdeMO require this $12K SuperCharging license first, then $450 for the CCS Retrofit (includes the CCS Adapter) and/or $510 to enable CHAdeMO - not sure if the $510 is for just the license or for the license and an adapter - if I have to spend $12k first, it's irrelevant.
Does this sound right? $12K is an INSANE amount of money. When I had casually inquired about licensing SuperCharging previously during other service visits I was told it was $2500. I wasn't crazy about that let alone $12 grand!
What I'd like as an option would be a limited use SuC option for say $1000 for the "right to use" software license where I could use maybe 500 or 1000 miles per year, to just "top off" the battery if/when circumstances lead to being far from home (and by "far" I only mean 50-100 miles, not 1000 miles) to go from say 10% SOC to 30-50% relatively quickly (20-30 mins vs 2-3 hrs @ L2 charging rates) so I can relatively quickly get back home to my L2 home charger. I'd be happy to pay for the time charging. I just need "an insurance policy" for times like this - I'm not trying to do cross country trips!
Quick note on that "isolation alert" supposedly on 12/20/23 that I couldn't be shown. Last night I read the TeslaTap post about Service Mode. So imagine my surprise and delight when I left the SC and got in my car, in the parking lot charging, to find that they accidently left my car in service mode!
Armed with the knowledge I got last night I looked through the alerts and guess what... They only go back to 1/2/24, NOT 12/20/23. Maybe that's the real reason they couldn't show it to me, it doesn't appear to exist! Is it any wonder I have so little trust in what they tell me?
Armed with the knowledge I got last night I looked through the alerts and guess what... They only go back to 1/2/24, NOT 12/20/23. Maybe that's the real reason they couldn't show it to me, it doesn't appear to exist! Is it any wonder I have so little trust in what they tell me?
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When I was at my SC appt today I talked to the SM about this setting "Other DC Fast Charging" and asked if maybe that had gotten missed and was the real reason the CCS Retro kit had not worked. He seemed to not know what I was talking about.
He was adamant that the CCS Kit requires Tesla NACS SuperCharging to be enabled first and that it really is $12K but it was just a software license and NOT any hardware upgrade, other than the CCS Retrofit. It does include lifetime free SuC but I don't want or need that and won't pay $12 grand just to have an option that I may use very little. There's got to be some "happy medium" between No SuC at all and lifetime unlimited at an absurd $12 grand!
Ditto for CHAdeMO, also requires the $12K SuC license first. Very hard to believe.
And that may be, I'll concede that, this was my first use of Service Mode. But if I blindly listened to them I would have replaced both my OBC and my Battery Heater pump at a cost of $3700+ when neither of them may need to be replaced, all because of alerts that very likely were false alarms triggered by their tech removing the CCS Retrofit kit that they never should have installed in the first place!
@scgaskill I am sorry you've been getting some wrong information from the guy at the service center. I am genuinely trying to help you, and so I am telling you that you need to listen to folks like @MP3Mike and myself who have been in this stuff for a decade. We can't necessarily know exactly how this new CCS retrofit works with it, as that is new, but the old part we do know. The technician you've been talking with is also probably new--most Tesla employees have only been there a few years.
Here is the old stuff that we can give you real accurate information on.
It was named CHAdeMO capability, because that's the only other alternative that existed, but that $2500 option is more generically for "Other DC fast charging other than Superchargers". It just enables that capability.
The Supercharger option included the CHAdeMO capability PLUS Superchargers too. The reason the $12,000 cost for Supercharging is so much more is that Supercharging was all or nothing back then. They didn't have pay as you go. Turning it on was adding the permanent lifetime free unlimited use, so it had a very expensive price tag that was paying for a lot of usage. The S85's came with that, which was part of that larger price difference above the S60. I don't even know how that would work now, since they have been trying to get rid of the permanent free Supercharging users. Would they activate that? Or do they have some cheaper thing they could do to enable pay-go Supercharging?
So thing we know, and thing we don't:
1. Since your car doesn't have either of the DC fast charging settings enabled, yes, that makes sense why just the CCS capability isn't a standalone that can work.
2. Enabling just the "other DC charging" I thought might also let it work with the CCS upgrade, but maybe there's some real technical reason why it does need to have the actual Supercharger setting turned on too.
Here is the old stuff that we can give you real accurate information on.
No, that is not true. ALL of those old S60 cars DO have all of the hardware necessary in them already. There is nothing that physically needs to be added. It is literally just a software configuration switch. There was never any danger to you or your car. Here's the reason for the price difference:
It was named CHAdeMO capability, because that's the only other alternative that existed, but that $2500 option is more generically for "Other DC fast charging other than Superchargers". It just enables that capability.
The Supercharger option included the CHAdeMO capability PLUS Superchargers too. The reason the $12,000 cost for Supercharging is so much more is that Supercharging was all or nothing back then. They didn't have pay as you go. Turning it on was adding the permanent lifetime free unlimited use, so it had a very expensive price tag that was paying for a lot of usage. The S85's came with that, which was part of that larger price difference above the S60. I don't even know how that would work now, since they have been trying to get rid of the permanent free Supercharging users. Would they activate that? Or do they have some cheaper thing they could do to enable pay-go Supercharging?
So thing we know, and thing we don't:
1. Since your car doesn't have either of the DC fast charging settings enabled, yes, that makes sense why just the CCS capability isn't a standalone that can work.
2. Enabling just the "other DC charging" I thought might also let it work with the CCS upgrade, but maybe there's some real technical reason why it does need to have the actual Supercharger setting turned on too.
A battery itself doesn't contain the Supercharging status. It's a software switch in the car's computer. So a refurbished battery can't contain or not contain free unlimited Supercharging.
Thanks Rocky! Yeah, although I don't know you or MP3Mike personally I trust your advice infinitely more than I do the Tesla SM or techs at this point.
They have been pretty open with me saying this that you guys have also noted, that Tesla didn't sell a lot of the early MS60's with limited "bare bones / base model only" options like mine and they may be making assumptions that my car has licenses for features that 95% of the other cars they deal with.
And the SM did confirm that the $12K really is just for the license but it includes unlimited lifetime SuC which is great if you want or need it, I personally don't and am not inclined to spend a lot to get it. As I explained earlier, Id be quite happy with a limited use subscription and a reasonably priced "right to use" license.
I've been trying to learn about my car and the various licenses as quickly as possible. I watched a great YouTube video from a professor at a tech college that teaches EVs. He had the high voltage components all out on a bench and methodically walked the viewer through the whole system, starting at the charging port to the onboard charger to the "splitter" where the DC bypass goes directly to the battery and to the front of the car for the front motor if equipped and the heater, battery heat pump, etc. it was enlightening and it was clear that there should not be any new hardware required, except for the small module added with the CCS retrofit kit.
Despite what the roadside assistance "level 1" person told me, I DONT have a 40kW (60kW sw limited) battery pack, so there's no need for anything there. I'm sure you are correct that the bulk of the $12K was Tesla deciding how much "free SuC" that included so they didn't take it in the shorts too badly! I asked specifically if there was a need to replace my battery pack and they said no. So I'm slowly getting to the truth of the matter!
Now, whete
Now, whether or not the CCS and CHAdeMO option really require Tesla NACS SuC to be enabled first, can you shed any light on that? The SM said they do, making them irrelevant. Id prefer NOT to do CHAdeMO anyway as it is being phased out and being replaced with CCS, and, admittedly I haven't researched this much myself, but what I've read is that CHAdeMO is less frequently available at non-Tesla L3 fast dc chargers, often with only 1-2 plugs available, and not always functional. So to invest even $2K for a license and used adapter would be pushing it. I've got the money mind you, but I'd rather spend it on other activities, such as live aboard dive boats (I'm an avid scuba diver!)
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