I suppose it depends on what you would consider qualifies as "have their network up". EA already has 66 sites online and only 3 of them are in California. By this Summer I think they will have a serviceable national network. While I don't expect EA to hit their "Mid 2019" goal of 900 sites with 5000 connectors, that is their claim for the first 30 month segment of their plan. It took Tesla 3 years to get to 250 Supercharger sites in the USA.
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European Model 3 CCS plug: could it be sign that US Superchargers will offer CCS plugs?
- Thread starter Ulmo
- Start date
My understanding is that Electrify America will have around 500+ sites up this year, covering much of the US Interstate highway system.
We visited one of the new EA sites in the Denver metro area. It's 15 minutes from the closest interstate, has 6 charging cables (5 CCS/1 CHAdeMO) but only 3 can be used at once. They were all a measly 50 kW. It would be fine for around-town charging but you wouldn't want to use it for a road trip unless there was no other choice. The J1772 at the site was out of order, of course. They have a ways to go. Oh, and there's an incorrectly placed handicapped parking sign which means you can't even use the CHAdeMO plug unless you are handicapped.
TT97
Active Member
Will believe that when I see it.
Will you be driving to all 500 sites?
USA dual ports would make sense to me. The amount of Tesla chargers/Superchargers and CCS chargers combined is always higher than that of Tesla chargers/Superchargers alone and now that CHAdeMO is seemingly diminishing into a niche CCS is bound to grow even more and the risk of being stuck on the losing side of a charger connector war is less than it used to be.
If there is a queue at the Supercharger those CCS stalls might look mighty tempting too. As a bonus a second port would allow AC charging without adapters in more places.
If there is a queue at the Supercharger those CCS stalls might look mighty tempting too.
As a bonus a second port would allow AC charging without adapters in more places.
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The EA chargers being built in TN along I-40 are 350 kW, as shown in this attached photo:
@swegman and @AnxietyRanger
Would definitely be nice to plug into that natively. CCS adapter would probably not handle that kWh as it could probably not be cooled enough. The mocked dual port system in a Tesla would seem like a working solution for this unless Tesla were to move entirely to CCS in the USA.
Would definitely be nice to plug into that natively. CCS adapter would probably not handle that kWh as it could probably not be cooled enough. The mocked dual port system in a Tesla would seem like a working solution for this unless Tesla were to move entirely to CCS in the USA.
I made a mock-up recently what a U.S. Model 3 would look like with both Tesla and U.S. CCS connectors. They should fit similar to China where Model 3 gets dual connectors underneath the same flap.
Rumor summary: Blind-spot cameras, Rain sensing, Level 3, Big battery, Interior/HUD
Charging connector page, translated for us German challenged people:
S&X cars delivered on/after February 1, 2019 will come with the adapter, at least in Germany.
From the FAQ:
So it sounds like the S&X are limited to 120kW because of the car, at least at this time, and the adapter might support more from how they worded it.
I hope this means that a CCS adapter will be coming to North America soon.
S&X cars delivered on/after February 1, 2019 will come with the adapter, at least in Germany.
From the FAQ:
So it sounds like the S&X are limited to 120kW because of the car, at least at this time, and the adapter might support more from how they worded it.
I hope this means that a CCS adapter will be coming to North America soon.
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I would probably only use CCS a couple of times per year, but those two times would really save my bacon because the only alternative would be to wait for hours on an L2 charger. I just hope Tesla starts to see this need most of us have and will finally make a CCS (or at least CHAdeMO) adapter.
I'm not sure if you changed the colors but your post shows as white text on gray and I had to select the text the read it.
Eno Deb
Active Member
If true, even 120kW would actually be pretty amazing. So far I had assumed the CCS adapter would be limited to some lower power like the Chademo one (which is limited to 50kW).
Can't wait to see pictures of the Euro CCS adapter. Hopefully it isn't quite as huge and unwieldy as the Chademo adapter ...
I'm sure it will be similar in size to the CHAdeMO one, it has to have the big CCS Type 2 inlet on one end, some electronics, and a Tesla Type 2 on the other end. Not much you can do to shrink that.
What I wonder is how many charging stations will suffer failures from the high demands that a Tesla will put on them that most other cars don't. (We saw that initially even with the 50kW limited CHAdeMO adapter, hopefully they learned from that and improved.)
theredviper
Member
120kW Superchargers (and the highest CCS speeds being hyped) are more marketing than anything. I have a LR Model 3 and hit ~115kW speed for maybe 5 minutes when I supercharge. The average when I charge up to 80% or so is probably 50-60kW. But there's nothing wrong with that. Assuming I can get a sustained 50kW charge from a Chademo station, I really want that adapter.
Eno Deb
Active Member
It's true that >100kW will only be sustained for a short time, but you can gain a lot of energy in that short time when the battery has a low SoC. And according to multiple tests the charge power will stay above 50kW up until you reach about 40-50% charge, so I think limiting the adapter to 50kW would make a significant difference on road trips that are planned to arrive at the chargers with a low SoC.
I agree with @theredviper in that a lot of legacy manufactures like Porsche waive 350kw as some soft of holy grail. In reality, I would much rather have a 100kw or even 50kw charger readily accessible on every major road I might drive on for a road trip. Peak charge rate can only be reached for a short period of time, provided that you start below 15% SOC and after the battery has been warmed up. Those are hard conditions to meet every time, or even very often.
On a related note, I would trade high-output charger in the middle of nowhere (like some superchargers in Idaho) for a 50kw charger next to my favorite restaurant chain. I can totally take an hour or more to eat lunch (or dinner) while waiting to receive 50kwh. And I would choose 50kw charger every 10 miles over 350kw charger every 100 miles.
I think Tesla is starting to see this with their mobile superchargers (usually used to supplement very overworked locations with normal superchargers). These mobile superchargers are easy to permit and to connect, they peak at 75kw, and are way better option than waiting in line for 30 minutes while your pack cools down).
On a related note, I would trade high-output charger in the middle of nowhere (like some superchargers in Idaho) for a 50kw charger next to my favorite restaurant chain. I can totally take an hour or more to eat lunch (or dinner) while waiting to receive 50kwh. And I would choose 50kw charger every 10 miles over 350kw charger every 100 miles.
I think Tesla is starting to see this with their mobile superchargers (usually used to supplement very overworked locations with normal superchargers). These mobile superchargers are easy to permit and to connect, they peak at 75kw, and are way better option than waiting in line for 30 minutes while your pack cools down).
Eno Deb
Active Member
Well, that is true for Teslas, but in first tests the Audi e-Tron appeared to be able to sustain close to 150kW up to 80% SoC. We don't know yet how cars with 800V charging like the Porsche will do.
Sure, but I don't have three lunches per day. On longer trips the charging wait times can really get annoying in my experience.
Right, but I am not suggesting that we stop using superchargers and start using 50kw CCS or CHAdeMO. I am saying that having more options would be great and would allow me to better manage my charging while on the trip. I may choose to make one of my stops at a restaurant for lunch and charge at 50kw, then make my next stop at a supercharger, and then the following stop can be at another restaurant for dinner, again using 50kw charger.
The problem is that some superchargers are located in some really inconvenient locations. For example, Baker, CA has like 40 stalls, but DQ is the only option within short walking distance. But if I stop at CCS charger down the street within a short walk I can reach Mad Greek, Subway, or Denny's. I know, none of them have Michelin stars, but my point is that either supercharger OR 50kw CCS will provide me with sufficient charge while I eat, but stopping at CCS would allow me better selection of dining options.
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