European Model 3 CCS plug: could it be sign that US Superchargers will offer CCS plugs?

[Ulmo]

The recent announcement of CCS Model 3 for Europe and converting Europe SuperChargers to also have a CCS plug (https://electrek.co/2018/11/14/tesla-model-3-ccs-2-plug-europe-adapter-model-s-model-x/) makes me wonder if Tesla slowed local SuperCharger investment until they knew how they were going to deliver CCS to SuperChargers. Now that they've figured that out, engineered, designed, tested, and manufactured their approach, they could then have opened up SuperCharger investment again.

Even if everything I said above is 100% true (and it's likely to be less than 100% true), it's hard to know today exactly what Tesla decided (since they never tell us what they're planning). They could have decided to make the Urban SuperCharger cabinet equipment and/or the old fashioned SuperCharger equipment forward-compatible with CCS cable upgrades, or they may have decided to forego the conversion to CCS for Tesla's USA SuperChargers, or some combination thereof. Perhaps now Tesla knows that converting USA SuperChargers to all have a CCS plug (in addition to their legacy plug) is relatively inexpensive using their existing SuperCharger installed base. If all Tesla has to do to convert to dual-plug CCS&Legacy stations is put in an additional cord, plug, cord hangar, and a firmware upgrade (and a few other things such as inspection, testing), then that is relatively inexpensive, and this could be the reason, in addition to much more revenue from Model 3 and the need to keep up with SuperCharger demand, that Tesla has started building out SuperChargers again. This could explain some aspect of the pause that is not entirely explained by the need to conserve cash for cashflow and profitability.

By either reason, now there could be some more buildout. I look forward to seeing if Tesla CCS comes to America, and if so, how.

 

[miimura]

I think the only reasonable conclusion for the US market from the recent Model 3 CCS news is that we might get a CCS adapter for the Tesla proprietary charge port used in North America. However, it will probably allow a lower power than the European Type-2 CCS on the Model 3. The reason is that the high current CCS cables and connectors are actively cooled. An adapter would not have effective active cooling for the vehicle inlet unless the conductors in the adapter were very fat and very short. Therefore, the current would probably be limited to current Supercharger spec, around 320A. CCS2 can go up to 500A. The potential peak charging speed for the Model 3 with native CCS2 is 180-200kW. Model 3 only charges up to 117kW on Superchargers in US & Canada today.

 

[theredviper]

When I read the press release, it stood out to me that North American TM3s wouldn't get anything. Maybe that's my paranoia, but I'm already disappointed that we don't have a Chademo adapter.

 

[adaptabl]

I suspect Tesla is seeing the new standard and will soon change in North America also. It will be interesting if new superchargers get both charging cables.

 

[KootsChewt]

With this announcement, it got me thinking that Model 3 in North America may start shipping with a CCS inlet instead of the Tesla inlet in early 2019. However, with over 100,000 3's on the road already here, I wonder if the existing inlet could be replaced at a Service Centre with a CCS inlet? Has anyone had their car taken apart far enough to understand what barriers there would be to this?

If they did move to having just CCS cables on Superchargers in the future, I'd probably be happier paying a fee to change over my port rather than buying another adapter. Thoughts?

 

[ivan801]

The way I read it is that European Model S and X owners will be able to get CCS adapter that will work with Tesla new superchargers. It is not clear if it will work with all CCS chargers. I am not sure that CCS general standard allows for adapters period (obviously Tesla can make an adapter that would work with their supercharger CCS plug). Can anyone clarify?

 

[MP3Mike]

The way I read it is that European Model S and X owners will be able to get CCS adapter that will work with Tesla new superchargers. It is not clear if it will work with all CCS chargers. I am not sure that CCS general standard allows for adapters period (obviously Tesla can make an adapter that would work with their supercharger CCS plug). Can anyone clarify?

No, Tesla is going to add a CCS cable to existing Supercharger stalls, so every stall will have both types of cables. The CCS adapter will allow S&X cars to charge at any CCS station.

Of course that is only in Europe, no changes to North America that we are aware of. (Though I would hope that they will adapt the CCS adapter for use with the NA Tesla charge port, and that it will be available in 19Q2 like it is rumored to be available in Europe.)

 

[ivan801]

No, Tesla is going to add a CCS cable to existing Supercharger stalls, so every stall will have both types of cables. The CCS adapter will allow S&X cars to charge at any CCS station.

Of course that is only in Europe, no changes to North America that we are aware of. (Though I would hope that they will adapt the CCS adapter for use with the NA Tesla charge port, and that it will be available in 19Q2 like it is rumored to be available in Europe.)

Right, but will European S/X be able to on ANY CCS charger or just Tesla's new plugs at supercharger stations?

 

[SW2Fiddler]

No

As per Betteridge’s Law O’Headlines ?

 

[MP3Mike]

Right, but will European S/X be able to on ANY CCS charger or just Tesla's new plugs at supercharger stations?

There would be no point in having a CCS to Tesla adapter if it only worked on the Superchargers, as the Superchargers will have a Tesla plug and a CCS plug.

 

[Chuq]

Replying to a post in another thread:

An off-topic thought occurred to me while viewing the photos of the urban chargers though... how are they going to retrofit these units to have two charging cords per the recent news in relation to CCS for EU? (My guess is something similar happens in NA next year.) Maybe they swap all the cords to CCS, and all of us "Tesla inlet" cars get an adapter?

Given that there aren't any 72kW chargers outside North America, I don't think it will be an issue.

It also may be a hint as to Tesla's plans for North America. (i.e. maybe they are sticking with their proprietary connector?)

 

[KJD]

Superchargers with dual connectors is now a thing in Europe.

First look at Tesla’s new dual connector CCS Supercharger

 

[KJD]

Superchargers with dual connectors is now a thing in Europe.

First look at Tesla’s new dual connector CCS Supercharger

I do think that CCS will show up here in USA, but not until they convert all of Europe superchargers over to dual connectors.

 

[diamond.g]

I wonder if they would do it after redesigning the S/X charge port to accept CCS2 sized plug. Seems better than having to do adapters (which supposedly is against CCS spec). I think they are able to bend the rules in Europe due to the cars already using type 2 plug (NA uses type 1 plug). In any case it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[eladts]

I do think that CCS will show up here in USA, but not until they convert all of Europe superchargers over to dual connectors.

Tesla has much larger installed base with the existing connector in the US than in Europe. Furthermore if they switch to CCS 1 in NA, it will require to switch the AC charging to J1722. In Europe AC charging remains the same.

 

[J1mbo]

I wonder if the CCS install also includes the rumoured higher-power "V3" supercharger hardware. Would be nice to see 200-250kw charging on both stalls at the same time.

I guess we will need to wait until the European M3s start arriving to find out.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I wonder if the CCS install also includes the rumoured higher-power "V3" supercharger hardware. Would be nice to see 200-250kw charging on both stalls at the same time.

I guess we will need to wait until the European M3s start arriving to find out.

I've been wondering the same thing. V3 might be tied to CCS. Hopefully we'll find out more in the coming months.

 

[RDoc]

While a CCS adapter would be nice, I don't really see any reason for Tesla to do anything with CCS in the US anytime soon. The CCS chargers here are mostly single connector low powered ornaments and none of the other companies are going to pay Tesla for Supercharger access.

If EA actually builds out a high power system, an adapter might be a bit useful, but the Supercharger system is already so large and getting larger, it's hardly a critical need. They already sell all the cars they can build anyway.

 

[Eno Deb]

While a CCS adapter would be nice, I don't really see any reason for Tesla to do anything with CCS in the US anytime soon. The CCS chargers here are mostly single connector low powered ornaments

That is changing rapidly. The image below is borrowed from this thread. All of the chargers are faster than Tesla superchargers (two of them more than twice as fast):

 

[TT97]

While a CCS adapter would be nice, I don't really see any reason for Tesla to do anything with CCS in the US anytime soon. The CCS chargers here are mostly single connector low powered ornaments and none of the other companies are going to pay Tesla for Supercharger access.

If EA actually builds out a high power system, an adapter might be a bit useful, but the Supercharger system is already so large and getting larger, it's hardly a critical need. They already sell all the cars they can build anyway.

The fact that they are selling all the cars they are building is even more reason they need to add a CCS adapter. They are adding cars to the fleet much faster than Supercharger capacity. There are already more 3s on the roads than Xs; they are less than 2 months away of having more 3s than Ss; and will likely have more 3s than Ss & Xs combined by the end of 2019. And then they will add the Y & pickup truck.

They either need to add massive amounts of superchargers or expand Level 3 charging options.