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EV parking priority
- Thread starter Picasso
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- Electric Vehicles
Policy of always plugging in, even if I don't really need to
I've adopted a policy of always plugging in, even if I don't really need to. I do that because I think it's helpful for other drivers to see that I'm using the charging facility -- the point of EV charging locations is so that EVs can charge, not because they're just privileged parking spaces for people rich enough to be able to afford a Tesla Roadster. Apple has enough EV charging locations that I'm not preventing another EV driver from charging by doing that.
Also, if I were to park in a different space on days I don't actually need to charge then in effect I'd be hogging two parking spaces -- the reserved charging location, sitting empty, unused, plus the space I've parked in, where an ICE driver could have parked if my car wasn't there. When people are circling a full car park looking for a space, I think it's natural for them to find it annoying that you're not using an empty space that you could have used, and as a result you're taking up a space they could have used. (Of course if you weren't parked there, chances are that someone else would have taken that spot already -- but human nature is to think, "If that EV were parked there instead of there, then that space would be empty and I could park there.)
I've adopted a policy of always plugging in, even if I don't really need to. I do that because I think it's helpful for other drivers to see that I'm using the charging facility -- the point of EV charging locations is so that EVs can charge, not because they're just privileged parking spaces for people rich enough to be able to afford a Tesla Roadster. Apple has enough EV charging locations that I'm not preventing another EV driver from charging by doing that.
Also, if I were to park in a different space on days I don't actually need to charge then in effect I'd be hogging two parking spaces -- the reserved charging location, sitting empty, unused, plus the space I've parked in, where an ICE driver could have parked if my car wasn't there. When people are circling a full car park looking for a space, I think it's natural for them to find it annoying that you're not using an empty space that you could have used, and as a result you're taking up a space they could have used. (Of course if you weren't parked there, chances are that someone else would have taken that spot already -- but human nature is to think, "If that EV were parked there instead of there, then that space would be empty and I could park there.)
I agree with your logic Stuart but only because of this:
That has to be the one-in-a-million location though. Your Costco's, Home Depot's, and Public park-o's may have two chargers at most and having a non charging EV is as bad as getting ICEd we you really need a boost.
Just food for thought.
That has to be the one-in-a-million location though. Your Costco's, Home Depot's, and Public park-o's may have two chargers at most and having a non charging EV is as bad as getting ICEd we you really need a boost.
Just food for thought.
i believe the addition should be made "While Charging" A volt should not be able to occupy a slot for charging all day if they only need 15 minutes to top off thier battery. The intent of the law was to make spaces available for charging, not priority parking for anyone who is able to plug in! Exceptions should be made where long term parking is expected as airports.
ljbad4life
Member
I 100% agree and I will take it a step further that anyone with a Volt/phev should yield the charger to a BEV if no other chargers are available(if the charging is free, if you pay for it, then who paid for it deserves to get their charge). The worse that will happen with a volt is you might end up burning gas, while a BEV driver might not get home.
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smorgasbord
Active Member
We live in an imperfect world of unintended consequences. HOV lanes were intended to cut down on the number of cars on the road during commute hours. But, parents get to use them when taking their kids to school. We've not taken extra measures there like counting towards a carpool only people who own a car that's not on the road because of the carpool, because enforcement is too difficult.
The Volt's built-in charger is limited to 3.3kW. That could mean it needs up to 4 hours of charging, even at 220. What can be done? Have the charging station pop up a flag when the vehicle is fully charged so that it can be ticketed for hogging the spot? What about a Tesla owner who need 90 minutes of charging but went to a 2 hour movie? And, just because the Volt has an ICE doesn't mean we don't want to encourage Volt drivers from using electricity instead.
Norbert
TSLA will win
The best solution is to have enough chargers for everyone, and I certainly think that is the case even if one includes the question of cost in the current political situation.
Aside from that, my understanding of the above was that, while PHEVs should have access to chargers, their access should be more limited than that of pure EVs. So a PHEV should use a charger only if it is able to clear the spot as soon as charging is done, while a pure EV is asked to do so as well when chargers are scarce, but not obliged to do so when it is not practical (such as when in a movie). I tend to agree. This would also motivate PHEV manufacturers (the big ones) to support a good infrastructure, instead of making life difficult for EVs which are competing with their higher-margin ICEs (as GM openly acknowledges Volts as bait for selling Cruzes).
Not necessarily agreeing with the need, but one argument GM used for leaving Volts plugged in longer than a few hours is they say they can use line power to "condition" the battery over time.
Also, Volt & Leaf can use line power to run the climate control if you use a phone smart-app to request cabin cooling or heat before you get to the car.
Modern EVs tend to like being left plugged in even if you are past being there long enough to get the battery to "full."
Also, Volt & Leaf can use line power to run the climate control if you use a phone smart-app to request cabin cooling or heat before you get to the car.
Modern EVs tend to like being left plugged in even if you are past being there long enough to get the battery to "full."
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smorgasbord
Active Member
Unenforceable. And unfair to Volt owners who need an hour charge to get home without using gas but want to see a movie while charging.
If chargers worked like parking meters and popped a flag, say 2 hours after charging was complete, then that could be enforced for both PHEV and BEV to not take a charging spot for way longer than they need. Of course, owners could simply lower the rate of charge to match how long they expect to want to take the spot. That's not the end of the world anymore than a parent with their 7 year old gets to ride in the carpool lane.
I don't believe we can, nor should, make a distinction between PHEVs and BEVs for charging. Just because a car has an energy backup doesn't mean the owner should be penalized for trying to not use that more expensive/more polluting backup. And, making things harder for PHEV owners won't do anything to make GM do more for Volts than Cruzes.
We all agree we need more charging spots, and those spots need to not be in particularly desirable locations except that they have the chargers. That way ICE owners won't resent the chargers. I also think it's fine to make owners pay a nominal fee for charging. A $0.10/kWh rate is fair, but many states won't let non-utility companies charge per kWh - that's a legal thing that needs to get fixed.
The Volt has a meaningful EV only range and speed capability.
It is going to more questionable when less "electrified" plug-in vehicles start parking long term in front of the charging stations.
Plug-in Prius will be one step less, and I bet we see even more "mildly electrified" vehicles become available with plugs.
Everyone who has a hybrid in production will be tempted to add a plug to get a little more MPGe even if they don't have much battery in it.
It is going to more questionable when less "electrified" plug-in vehicles start parking long term in front of the charging stations.
Plug-in Prius will be one step less, and I bet we see even more "mildly electrified" vehicles become available with plugs.
Everyone who has a hybrid in production will be tempted to add a plug to get a little more MPGe even if they don't have much battery in it.
Norbert
TSLA will win
As far as I am concerned, I haven't been talking about a "law", enforceable or not, but am discussing what would be fair use in a situation where there aren't enough chargers for every car.
And in such a situation, I really think that EVs should have priority. Unless there are enough chargers for everyone, the Volt really shouldn't hog the charger, but instead use a bit of gasoline... after all, that's why you would buy a Volt instead of an EV, so that you can use gas once in a while.
Why no distinction? I'd rather see a Volt use gas, than see an EV stranded or having to wait hours. That's the point of a Volt in the first place: being able to use gas instead of being limited by battery charging.
That's up to GM. When you buy a Volt, you'll need to consider who you are buying it from. GM has enough money to invest some in public chargers. Compared to the billion(s) invested in developing their PHEVs, chargers are not very expensive. But the point here is to keep PHEVs from making life unacceptable for pure EVs, to keep vehicles which don't necessarily need a charger from destroying usability for vehicles which in many use cases may really depend on a charger.
Agreed as long as pricing is not used to make more profit while allowing supply to remain limited, postponing investments in more chargers. $0.10/kWh does seem fair.
How about parking meters that have a cost per minute when someone is parked there NOT charging, but as long as you are charging the meter stops counting.
Another incentive to "move on" once you are done charging.
Instead of "tow when not plugged in" you have "pay when not charging."
Sortof backwards from the usual thought of "pay something while charging to cover the power costs."
Instead, the free power would be subsidized by the people who park in the spot and don't charge.
(Including the plug-in vehicles that linger too long.)
Another incentive to "move on" once you are done charging.
Instead of "tow when not plugged in" you have "pay when not charging."
Sortof backwards from the usual thought of "pay something while charging to cover the power costs."
Instead, the free power would be subsidized by the people who park in the spot and don't charge.
(Including the plug-in vehicles that linger too long.)
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strider
Active Member
But again, go back to the movie theater or dinner idea. Am I supposed to get up in the middle of the movie or dinner if I get a text that my car is done charging? That's ridiculous.
So park in a lot with tickets that can be validated (by the theater) instead of at a meter on the street.
The EVSE in the lot could also spit out a validation code (based on how long you charged) that would work similarly - it takes a time deduction off of your payment to get your exit ticket.
Just thinking out loud, but I think it could work.
The EVSE in the lot could also spit out a validation code (based on how long you charged) that would work similarly - it takes a time deduction off of your payment to get your exit ticket.
Just thinking out loud, but I think it could work.
Norbert
TSLA will win
What makes it any different than 90 minute metered street parking?
I agree with with the proposition that you should be able to pay a nominal amount for the amount of time that you anticipate parking at that location!
Norbert
TSLA will win
But what is wrong with free parking as a perk for buying an EV? The usual situation should be that there are enough chargers (and spots) for both PHEVS and pure EVs. I think we shouldn't design around the assumption that there aren't enough chargers, and make life difficult for everyone. Still, we can think about what we do in case there aren't.
PHEV vs EV... Doesn't distinguish. Conditioning would involve occasionally turning on power, so you would get billed for the other time not actively using it.
(Perhaps only if it draws at least 3kW does it qualify to be considered 'while charging.')
...Free parking for EVs _while_charging_... Free parking for moviegoers with validation... ICE or non-charging EV in a charge spot is being charged by the hour to sit there, so encouraged to get out. If we are to get enough EV parking spaces then they need to be sharable by non-EVs too. So have them pay a bit for the privilege of taking up the spot and use that money to pay for the power and free parking when EVs make better us of it... And use some of that revenue to add more EVSEs and convert more parking spaces until they are all like that...
Better incentives for EVs with bigger batteries, and a tax (of sorts) on non-charging vehicles that insist on using the charge spots.
Resorting to towing is an extreme, so hopefully there can be something a bit more subtle, but still effective in encouraging transition.
I wonder how many ICE vehicles have ever been towed from charging stations? Anyone ever seen it happen?
(Perhaps only if it draws at least 3kW does it qualify to be considered 'while charging.')
...Free parking for EVs _while_charging_... Free parking for moviegoers with validation... ICE or non-charging EV in a charge spot is being charged by the hour to sit there, so encouraged to get out. If we are to get enough EV parking spaces then they need to be sharable by non-EVs too. So have them pay a bit for the privilege of taking up the spot and use that money to pay for the power and free parking when EVs make better us of it... And use some of that revenue to add more EVSEs and convert more parking spaces until they are all like that...
Better incentives for EVs with bigger batteries, and a tax (of sorts) on non-charging vehicles that insist on using the charge spots.
Resorting to towing is an extreme, so hopefully there can be something a bit more subtle, but still effective in encouraging transition.
I wonder how many ICE vehicles have ever been towed from charging stations? Anyone ever seen it happen?
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