Existing Powerwall 2s to get 50% power capacity increase with SW update?

[wwhitney]

Yes, as far as I know as well, it is a regional thing. I have only seen them in the West, though from the post by @wwhitney, there will be more of them across the country per the 2020 NEC. Personally, I always liked having the main service panel indoors, though I can see for fire safety reasons why the fire department might want it outside.

If "them" = meter/mains or meter/main/distribution panels, I'm not sure which post of mine you are referring to. The 2020 NEC has potentially two new requirements that bear on this, the first of which I mentioned recently (not sure which thread it was):

1) A panel supplied by service conductors will need to have a main breaker. So the arrangement of "meter -- MLO panel -- multiple service disconnects in one panel" will no longer be allowed. One could instead do "meter -- gutter with multiple taps -- multiple enclosures, each with a single service disconnect". Not likely to impact residential service design much, as a single service panel is typical for residential.

2) (New) residential services will be required to have an exterior "emergency" disconnect. This could be the actual service disconnect, or an additional upstream disconnect labeled "not service equipment". The hardware is the same, the question is whether the EGC-neutral bond is in the enclosure, meaning the EGC system originates there, or not.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wjgjr]

In New England every house I have every lived in and seen has the meter socket and main breakers as different enclosure. I would say all single family residences are this way but I haven’t checked them all.
My house now definitely falls into Elon’s category. When we got the whole home backup solution installed last year, what they did to our electrical setup is exactly what they are describing as their way forward. Our main 200A panel got turned into a “backup” panel but nothing actually changed in the panel. All they changed was the underground feed from the grid to the meter was left in place but they rerouted from the meter to the new gateway in the garage, which then routed to the existing now “backup” panel. Solar and PW were also fed into the gateway. Very clean setup with minimal changes to existing wiring.

That sounds very similar to what was done in our case, and they did add a 200A main breaker (in addition to the service disconnect) since we did not previously have a main breaker.

And having lived in the Midwest, New England, and Mid-Atlantic, I have never seen a house around those areas with a single enclosure for both. Meter is on the outside of the house, and the breaker box is usually in a basement/utility room. So it is definitely a regional thing. And, given that electrical issues are often associated with stormy weather, I would hate to have to go outside to check on things.

That said, I have to assume there is a plan to make the solution work in CA. CA is their home and biggest market, and the switch to requiring PWs makes the most sense for states like CA.

 

[sorka]

Elon Musk announces Tesla 'Powerwall 2 Plus' secretly went into production in November

Elon Musk announced that Tesla started production of what he has now called “Powerwall 2 Plus” back in November of...

electrek.co

Can someone explain musks comment on how this would eliminate the need for most panel upgrades? I don't see how it can possibly be true.

My combo meter / panel had to be upgraded because the TEG had to go between my meter and all backed up loads and since my main bus bar was part of the panel the meter was installed in and there was no way to run a 200 amp breaker from that to the TEG, they had to remove my panel and install a new one that didn't have a split bus bar.

How could this announcement have eliminated the need for that upgrade? The installer said my scenario was the same as 99% of the installs he does where the entire house is backed up.

The way it's worded in the article is that the powerwalls will now be directly between the utility and your main service panel eliminating the need to upgrade main service panels. This makes NO sense.

 

[h2ofun]

Elon Musk announces Tesla 'Powerwall 2 Plus' secretly went into production in November

Elon Musk announced that Tesla started production of what he has now called “Powerwall 2 Plus” back in November of...

electrek.co

Can someone explain musks comment on how this would eliminate the need for most panel upgrades? I don't see how it can possibly be true.

My combo meter / panel had to be upgraded because the TEG had to go between my meter and all backed up loads and since my main bus bar was part of the panel the meter was installed in and there was no way to run a 200 amp breaker from that to the TEG, they had to remove my panel and install a new one that didn't have a split bus bar.

How could this announcement have eliminated the need for that upgrade? The installer said my scenario was the same as 99% of the installs he does where the entire house is backed up.

The way it's worded in the article is that the powerwalls will now be directly between the utility and your main service panel eliminating the need to upgrade main service panels. This makes NO sense.

Well, this would seem to confirm that the folks who have had v2.1 pws had them installed during this time period. So, I guess most attitudes seem to be well,
you might have bought a car that can go 75 to 100 mph, but you are stuck with the car at 50 since we did not know there was a bigger engine.

 

[sorka]

Well, this would seem to confirm that the folks who have had v2.1 pws had them installed during this time period. So, I guess most attitudes seem to be well,
you might have bought a car that can go 75 to 100 mph, but you are stuck with the car at 50 since we did not know there was a bigger engine.

My poweralls were installed in mid October but still say v2.1 on them. But the question is Elon's comment seems to imply that they're going to install poweralls and TEGS between the meter and the utility in order to avoid "touching" the MSP.

 

[h2ofun]

My poweralls were installed in mid October but still say v2.1 on them.

seems v2.1 is the key. But, 99% of folks are screwed since they were installed to the tesla spec of 10 gauge wire and 30 amp breaker

 

[wjgjr]

Well, this would seem to confirm that the folks who have had v2.1 pws had them installed during this time period. So, I guess most attitudes seem to be well,
you might have bought a car that can go 75 to 100 mph, but you are stuck with the car at 50 since we did not know there was a bigger engine.

I think the perspective is that you paid for a car that can go 50, so you have no right to expect anything more. And, furthermore, if your mechanic had no idea that anything above 50 was possible for the vehicle, it is not their fault that they fitted it with tires only rated for 50.

I do hope Tesla offers all PW v2.1 customers a path to unlock the extra power, assuming one exists, but it should not be assumed that they have a right to this upgrade for free, nor should it be expected that any non-Tesla installers would be able to divine Tesla's plans before they were announced.

 

[h2ofun]

I think the perspective is that you paid for a car that can go 50, so you have no right to expect anything more. And, furthermore, if your mechanic had no idea that anything above 50 was possible for the vehicle, it is not their fault that they fitted it with tires only rated for 50.

I do hope Tesla offers all PW v2.1 customers a path to unlock the extra power, assuming one exists, but it should not be assumed that they have a right to this upgrade for free, nor should it be expected that any non-Tesla installers would be able to divine Tesla's plans before they were announced.

we can agree to disagree.

The tesla support persons email to me said FW to do this will be coming.

 

[scubastevo80]

For all of your solar installs, are your 30amp breakers installed in your main panel or a separate panel somewhere else? I have our main and sub-panel in the basement, but I don't see any new 30amp+ breakers that would be used for supporting the 2 powerwalls I had installed. Is there an external panel perhaps that might have these? My powerwalls are also 2.1, but I'd like to understand the breakers and wiring size given my AC would not be backed up given the initial start up draw.

 

[h2ofun]

For all of your solar installs, are your 30amp breakers installed in your main panel or a separate panel somewhere else? I have our main and sub-panel in the basement, but I don't see any new 30amp+ breakers that would be used for supporting the 2 powerwalls I had installed. Is there an external panel perhaps that might have these? My powerwalls are also 2.1, but I'd like to understand the breakers and wiring size given my AC would not be backed up given the initial start up draw.

These would be in the gateway. The GW can take up to 6 PW's

 

[MorrisonHiker]

For all of your solar installs, are your 30amp breakers installed in your main panel or a separate panel somewhere else? I have our main and sub-panel in the basement, but I don't see any new 30amp+ breakers that would be used for supporting the 2 powerwalls I had installed. Is there an external panel perhaps that might have these? My powerwalls are also 2.1, but I'd like to understand the breakers and wiring size given my AC would not be backed up given the initial start up draw.

We have a subpanel just for our 4 inverters. We then have another subpanel that has breakers for our Powerwalls is between the subpanel for solar and the gateway.

 

[h2ofun]

We have a subpanel just for our 4 inverters. We then have another subpanel that has breakers for our Powerwalls is between the subpanel for solar and the gateway.
View attachment 657464

That is the generation panel. Another way to do it. I have 2 of these. The only feeds are solar and batteries

 

[h2ofun]

Those poor folks at Tesla powerwall support. They seem to know information, but cannot say anything yet.

This time I got powerwall plus is a whole new powerwall product. But I asked him what v2.1 was, silence. When I asked if a new product
what is its product number, silence. When I asked but Elon stated they have been making since Nov, silence. Just would say once
the info gets released everyone will know.

I will just keep calling daily and see what story I get.

 

[h2ofun]

Powerwall 2 peak & steady power capability is better than advertised.

Now that we have lots of operational data, Tesla can unlock higher capabilities for free via software update next month.

Depending on production date, power increase power may be >50% at 30C ambient temp.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 22, 2021

 

[scubastevo80]

These would be in the gateway. The GW can take up to 6 PW's

Thanks - I was worried for a second. I just checked and my install as the Powerwall cabling/conduit running into gateway.

 

[h2ofun]

Thanks - I was worried for a second. I just checked and my install as the Powerwall cabling/conduit running into gateway.

The gateway also takes the solar. Meaning GW2 they built in the generation panel as a feature if needed.

 

[Electrph]

Those poor folks at Tesla powerwall support. They seem to know information, but cannot say anything yet.

This time I got powerwall plus is a whole new powerwall product. But I asked him what v2.1 was, silence. When I asked if a new product
what is its product number, silence. When I asked but Elon stated they have been making since Nov, silence. Just would say once
the info gets released everyone will know.

I will just keep calling daily and see what story I get.

You must be very popular by now at their call center

 

[h2ofun]

You must be very popular by now at their call center

If folks like me did not call, they would be out of a job

 

[h2ofun]

FYI.

Elon Musk announced that Tesla started production of what he has now called “Powerwall 2 Plus” back in November of last year.

Elon Musk announces Tesla 'Powerwall 2 Plus' secretly went into production in November - Electrek

Yep, but non one can say is this the v2.1 PW or is something no one has "seen" yet. My guess it is the v2.1, but cannot prove it one way or another yet. I might be totally out to lunch I know my installer hopes so.

 

[jhn_]

Yep, but non one can say is this the v2.1 PW or is something no one has "seen" yet. My guess it is the v2.1, but cannot prove it one way or another yet. I might be totally out to lunch I know my installer hopes so.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it is not PW v2.1 that allows for the upgraded capabilities. My PW v2.1 labels for UL and other regulatory certifications shows the “maximum continuous power” and “max supply fault current” at 5.8 and 10 kW respectively.

I don’t see how Tesla could get away with essentially changing these values through software without being afoul of labeling requirements. Unless they are going to also mail a sticker to everyone that upgrades to place on top of the existing label.