Falcon Super Heavy/Starship - General Development Discussion

[mongo]

I think that Elon simply wanted a more inspirational name for the vehicle than “BFS” which started out as an internal SpaceX acronym (even though Elon hates acronyms) and stuck after it leaked out.

I am very happy with the new “Starship“ name. It fires the imagination!

BFS still fits, it is a Big Fiber Starship

 

[AudubonB]

But doesn't it use microfibers?

 

[ecarfan]

I believe @mongo was referring to the fact that the BFS/Starship will be largely built out of carbon fiber.

 

[e-FTW]

I believe @mongo was referring to the fact that the BFS/Starship will be largely built out of carbon fiber.

Naw man! Fiberglass is the future!

 

[skitown]

Naw man! Fiberglass is the future!

Fiberboard. Medium-Density Fiberboard. Or MDF if you prefer acronyms within your acronyms.

 

[Grendal]

I updated the title of the thread to the current nomenclature.

Historical names for this rocket are:
Mars Colonial Transporter
ITS: Interplanetary Transport System
BFR: Big F**king Rocket
BFR: Big Falcon Rocket
BFS: Big Falcon Ship (second stage)

And now it is:
(Falcon) Super Heavy (boosters)
Starship (second stage)

I fully expect that each Starship will have a unique individual name as well, with the first Starship named "Heart of Gold."

 

[Nikxice]

I updated the title of the thread to the current nomenclature.

Historical names for this rocket are:
Mars Colonial Transporter
ITS: Interplanetary Transport System
BFR: Big F**king Rocket
BFR: Big Falcon Rocket
BFS: Big Falcon Ship (second stage)

And now it is:
(Falcon) Super Heavy (boosters)
Starship (second stage)

I fully expect that each Starship will have a unique individual name as well, with the first Starship named "Heart of Gold."

If SpaceX was looking for safe generic name for a fleet of spacecraft, then Starship is fine. If I didn't know better, it sounds like something Boeing or NASA would come up with. (This past summer NASA decided to collaborate with Peanuts Worldwide/Snoopy to promote STEM using Space themed educational activities. Do kids even relate to those characters today?) If anyone is looking for a cooler "reaching for the stars" type name, then of course Millennium Falcon fits nicely into the SpaceX stable of raptors. Don't know if Elon is a fan of Star Wars. He might have to work that one out with George Lucas.

Thought up a name, Solship, reflecting the goal to live life in Martian days. But then I took another look at that name and realized it may not be so simple to escape today's urban dictionary. It could be quite tempting to have some word play fun. For example, a broken toilet in deep space could leave the astros SOL.

 

[favo]

Also, the first Space Shuttle test vehicle was called Enterprise, which is an example of a starship on Star Trek. Science fiction has long inspired scientists, engineers and geeks the world over to invent the future. I think it's a good trend.

 

[favo]

of course Millennium Falcon fits nicely into the SpaceX stable of raptors. Don't know if Elon is a fan of Star Wars. He might have to work that one out with George Lucas.

Pretty sure the Falcon 1 & 9 are already named after the Millennium Falcon.

 

[ecarfan]

Pretty sure the Falcon 1 & 9 are already named after the Millennium Falcon.

That is correct. Elon has stated as such in the past.

 

[Nikxice]

Pretty sure the Falcon 1 & 9 are already named after the Millennium Falcon.

That's a good point. With the use of Merlin and Raptor I guess SpaceX is looking to stick with actual birds of prey. While attempting to relate this to BFR, I looked up the largest known falcon in the world. It's called the Gyrfalcon (Jeerfalcon?). Unless your an Audubon member or ornithologist it might be too esoteric for the Falcon series. Although with Elon, guess we can never rule anything out!

 

[HVM]

Elon Musk‏Verified account @elonmusk
Replying to @Erdayastronaut @TheGledinator and

"The new design is metal"
"Fairly heavy metal, but extremely strong"

Yes, fabrics dunked in glue are for pansies. Heavy metal! That's thing for starships!

 

[KarenRei]

I was thrilled when he wrote this. I've long been concerned with the notion of pure CF tanks (brittle, limited heat tolerance, capable of severe reactions with LOX, and tons of other things), and I've long been a big supporter of titanium in rocketry, which is what I believe he's referring to. Aerospace titanium alloys have superb specific strengths, retain strength at high temperatures (e.g. reentry), suffer little from fatigue, etc - they're perfect for a long-term-reusable spacecraft. As an added bonus, the rainbow-coloured oxidation they'll get on reentry will be stunning

Titanium is expensive and difficult to work - no question about that. But for a craft that they plan to have reused a thousand times, you'll amortize that investment quickly.

The Shuttle was initially supposed to be titanium, but budget cutbacks during development ruled that out. Had it been titanium, the TPS would have been much simpler, and allowed for far cheaper turnaround between flights and far greater reliability. With titanium you can let the frame run hot; you can't do this with alumium. They wouldn't have needed the problematic ceramic tile system, they could have gone with a simpler TPS.

Again, Musk hasn't confirmed titanium, but it's the obvious choice for a metal that's heavier than alumium.

 

[e-FTW]

Wonder what that all does to weight.

 

[e-FTW]

I was thrilled when he wrote this. I've long been concerned with the notion of pure CF tanks (brittle, limited heat tolerance, capable of severe reactions with LOX, and tons of other things), and I've long been a big supporter of titanium in rocketry, which is what I believe he's referring to. Aerospace titanium alloys have superb specific strengths, retain strength at high temperatures (e.g. reentry), suffer little from fatigue, etc - they're perfect for a long-term-reusable spacecraft. As an added bonus, the rainbow-coloured oxidation they'll get on reentry will be stunning

Titanium is expensive and difficult to work - no question about that. But for a craft that they plan to have reused a thousand times, you'll amortize that investment quickly.

The Shuttle was initially supposed to be titanium, but budget cutbacks during development ruled that out. Had it been titanium, the TPS would have been much simpler, and allowed for far cheaper turnaround between flights and far greater reliability. With titanium you can let the frame run hot; you can't do this with alumium. They wouldn't have needed the problematic ceramic tile system, they could have gone with a simpler TPS.

Again, Musk hasn't confirmed titanium, but it's the obvious choice for a metal that's heavier than alumium.

A decent example of using titanium, my favorite plane of all time, the SR-71 Blackbird:

 

[Cosmacelf]

Elon Musk‏Verified account @elonmusk
Replying to @Erdayastronaut @TheGledinator and

"The new design is metal"
"Fairly heavy metal, but extremely strong"

Yes, fabrics dunked in glue are for pansies. Heavy metal! That's thing for starships!

What the hell was that? Too funny!

 

[AudubonB]

Back to the General Development discussion -

Elsewhere, there has been what for me is a very interesting discusion suggesting the use of ablative steam as a fundamental part of the re-entry heat solution. Very simply, at the appropriate time a pump projects small amounts of water through holes in the reentry shield; the resultant steam both envelops the craft as well as uses the magnificent heat capacity of water to transfer heat away.


Now, if this works and is what SpaceX will be doing, I've come up with a magnificent, appropriate, very space-y name for the starship. But you'll have to go to my next post.....

 

[AudubonB]

 

[Grendal]

Moved a bunch of posts to a separate thread and tried to keep the posts related to the subject at hand here. I tried to not ruin the humor here though.

 

[RDoc]

I've been wondering if SpaceX is going to develop a Starship "3rd stage" system for direct to GEO launches without refueling. Moving the Starship all the way to GEO and back just to get a satellite up there seems pretty wasteful compared to a relatively small expendable "stage" to move from LEO to GEO. I suppose some kind of tug might work with an on-orbit transfer of the satellite and enough fuel for a round trip to GEO, but that seems pretty complex.

I'm not sure if there is any demand for direct to GEO these days other than US Government, and if that market alone is worth the effort. If it were cheap enough, communications satellite companies might be customers since it would get them on station faster so they could earn more money.