Wiki Super Heavy/Starship - General Development Discussion

[ecarfan]

Okay, thanks. So his current position is that FH will not be used for manned flight. Which means that any lunar “tourist” flight won’t be happening any time soon.

I sure hope he is proven right in the next couple of years when he says that “BFR is morning along quickly”. Would love to see the first BFR test flight in 2020!

I think he is trying to launch BFR before New Glenn. While publicly he may be relatively polite to Bezos, if I were him I would still be irked by BO acting like they have accomplished something major by flying New Shephard to the edge of space and back down without achieving orbit.

 

[boonedocks]

"I think he is trying to launch BFR before New Glenn. While publicly he may be relatively polite to Bezos, if I were him I would still be irked by BO acting like they have accomplished something major by flying New Shephard to the edge of space and back down without achieving orbit. "

Couldn't agree more. Bezo's needs to stop bragging about anything BO until he has delivered something to space besides his own hot air!!!

 

[Grendal]

Elon quote pulled from Space.com article:

Meanwhile, SpaceX is developing a launch system even larger than the Falcon Heavy, called the BFR (or Big Falcon Rocket). That booster, Musk has said, is designed to launch hundreds of people into space at one time and could be used to transport passengers around the world quickly for point-to-point travel.

Musk said he was thinking of the BFR on Monday while visiting the Falcon Heavy at the launchpad ahead of today's launch.

"I'm looking at Falcon Heavy, and I'm thinking, 'It's a bit small,'" he said.

Wow.

Success! SpaceX Launches Falcon Heavy Rocket on Historic Maiden Voyage

 

[ecarfan]

In the post launch press conference, Elon said “I’m thinking we may be able to do short hopper flights of the spaceship part of the BFR maybe next year?”.

Wow.

But where would SpaceX do those initial test “hop” flights? The BFR — first stage or second stage “spaceship” section — is too big to move by road. So they could not use McGregor for those test flights. And they will need to build some kind of launch pad for those test flights.

Is SpaceX planning to have at least a “test” launch pad ready at Boca Chica in 2019? And then they have to get the test BFR vehicle there, which would mean building a dock nearby that a barge could berth at for unloading the vehicle.

Seems like a huge amount of work to accomplish in the next two years.

EDIT: later in the press conference Elon says the “hopper flights” will “most likely happen at our Brownsville location” (Boca Chica) but he also left open the possibility of “ship to ship” test flights. Interesting...

So no mention of McGregor. Seems like it will be at Boca Chica. So I expect some serious construction work to start there soon!

 

[jaguar36]

Seems like a huge amount of work to accomplish in the next two years.

You forget that two years in Elon time is like 4-5 years for us normal folk.

 

[ecarfan]

You forget that two years in Elon time is like 4-5 years for us normal folk.

No, I never forget that. I’ve been following Tesla and SpaceX for a long time now, I’m familiar with Elon’s optimistic timelines. But super hard challenges are not solved by telling people to accomplish something in a decade when you really want them to do it in less than half that time.

 

[Grendal]

SpaceX cant do anything at McGregor except test an engine individually. You physically can't get there hauling one of these giant rockets. The FAA isn't going to allow SpaceX to hop one of these rockets across populated areas for a long time.

Brownsville/Boca Chica makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. SpaceX owns the facility and the surrounding area. They can build the launch facility to handle BFR/BFS from the outset instead of modifying existing launch facilities, which creates a downtime as we've seen with LC-39A and LC-40. Those are currently profit making launch facilities needed for the companies desired launch cadence. So that leaves Brownsville for BFR growth and experimentation.

Good news for Brownsville.

 

[ecarfan]

Elon Musk on Instagram: “SpaceX main body tool for the BFR interplanetary spaceship”

Elon posts photo of the BFR “main body tool” with Model 3 next to it for scale. I am at a loss for words, except thinking; this is getting real.

 

[jaguar36]

Wow. Does SpaceX actually have an autoclave that big?

 

[mongo]

Wow. Does SpaceX actually have an autoclave that big?

They already made that huge carbon fiber fuel tank, so they have some have gigs-sized equipment. Would the main body need an autoclave if it is friction stir welded like the current Falcons?

 

[SpotfireY]

They already made that huge carbon fiber fuel tank, so they have some have gigs-sized equipment. Would the main body need an autoclave if it is friction stir welded like the current Falcons?

The tanks and fuselage of the BFR will be completely made from composites, so friction stir welding is not a possibility. The process of winding the tanks from carbon fiber pre-pregs will probably look something like this. I also believe that there has been some talk about using an out-of-autoclave process, so I guess they specifically worked on eliminating the needed massive autoclave from the process.

 

[AudubonB]

That tool:

Is the fuselage created by forming it around that?

 

[ecarfan]

That tool:

Is the fuselage created by forming it around that?

I know nothing about how rocket fuselages (is that the correct term?) are built but that would be my guess based on the post by @SpotfireY. I am pretty sure that the BFR body will be made from composites, not metal.

 

[dhanson865]

Elon Musk on Instagram: “SpaceX main body tool for the BFR interplanetary spaceship”

Elon posts photo of the BFR “main body tool” with Model 3 next to it for scale. I am at a loss for words, except thinking; this is getting real.

itshappening.gif

as happy as I am to see BFR construction underway I'm not going to post that eyesore directly in the message, you can click if you want to see elon's head on ron pauls body.

 

[AudubonB]

I know nothing about how rocket fuselages (is that the correct term?) are built but that would be my guess based on the post by @SpotfireY. I am pretty sure that the BFR body will be made from composites, not metal.

Yes, apparently: Teslarati has a reasonable explanation of the process and this tool's role in it: SpaceX Mars rocket tooling dwarfs Tesla Model 3 in new Elon Musk teaser

 

[ecarfan]

Here is a reasonable piece on the latest BFR news from Elon.

Elon Musk shows off a new tooling for the BFR spaceship

Quote: “Musk shared a photo of a tooling that will be used to make carbon-fiber composites for the rocket's upper stage, the spaceship. This appears to be a mandrel, or mold, around which carbon fiber is wound for the main body of the spaceship”
—————————————-

It is very nuclear to my how the writer of that piece can determine that the tooling piece shown is for the spaceship section (upper stage) as opposed to the rocket section (lower stage).

 

[PhantomX]

The tanks and fuselage of the BFR will be completely made from composites, so friction stir welding is not a possibility. The process of winding the tanks from carbon fiber pre-pregs will probably look something like this. I also believe that there has been some talk about using an out-of-autoclave process, so I guess they specifically worked on eliminating the needed massive autoclave from the process.

Could be out-of-autoclave materials. Much cheaper and easier to use a giant oven that's not pressurized, as long as they can get the properties comparable to prepreg.

 

[ecarfan]

Some discussion on twitter about the BFR video that Gywnne showed at TED a few days ago. @Eric Cleven tweeted Elon: “Has the BFR/BFS been stretched in height? The video Gwynne showed at Ted Talks looks taller than the one in the E2E video”

Elon replied: “Maybe a little “

Twitter

And then a big discussion about that on reddit/spacex. The video of Gywnne at TED hasn’t been posted online yet as far as I know, but some people posted a few images of what Gywnne showed and the BFR and BFS stages do appear to be longer than what Elon showed at the 2017 IAC.

 

[Grendal]

Here is a new picture someone created to showcase the change in BFR:

To compare the payload to orbit for each of the rockets:
Comparison of orbital launch systems - Wikipedia

Space Shuttle LEO - 24,400 kg
Falcon 9 LEO - 16,000 kg (R)
Falcon Heavy LEO - 30,000 kg (R all 3)
New Glenn LEO - 45,000 kg (R)
Saturn V LEO - 140,000 kg
SLS B2 LEO - 130,000 kg
BFR LEO - 150,000 kg
ITS LEO -

 

[Nikxice]

Some discussion on twitter about the BFR video that Gywnne showed at TED a few days ago. @Eric Cleven tweeted Elon: “Has the BFR/BFS been stretched in height? The video Gwynne showed at Ted Talks looks taller than the one in the E2E video”

Elon replied: “Maybe a little “

Twitter

And then a big discussion about that on reddit/spacex. The video of Gywnne at TED hasn’t been posted online yet as far as I know, but some people posted a few images of what Gywnne showed and the BFR and BFS stages do appear to be longer than what Elon showed at the 2017 IAC.

It doesn't surprise me to see SpaceX tweak the height of BFR. Call it brash, but if you're gonna build it, make it big or go home. Otherwise all Elon's gonna hear in the future is how his stick is a few inches shorter than the iconic Saturn V. He's keenly aware of this and won't let it happen.