Falcon Wings - Must have them, will absolutely hate them

[AnxietyRanger]

That "opening in a tighter space" for the wings is cool, but it seems to me it's 100% offset by the fact that most front doors always need to be opened.

Depends on the use scenario of course. One case where the Falcon Wings can help in a tight spot is third row access and baby seats: An adult from the front row can squeeze out from a tight door opening (hence won't need as wide a parking space), but third row access and adjusting baby seats on the back seat would require opening traditional doors further open - something where Falcon Wings help.

I get your concerns about Falcon Wings, though. They are cool, but far from problem-free as a concept.

 

[AlMc]

My thought has been that TM could make everyone (OK you can't make everyone) happy as they have the engineering skill to make a door that could open 'Falcon' and 'Van' style.
You could use firmware to give the driver a choice of how it would open and IF the car senses a 'roof rack' that the doors would only open 'van' style. This allows for full use of the X for skis/kayaks on the roof but still gives EM his signature Falcon doors.

 

[gavine]

My thought has been that TM could make everyone (OK you can't make everyone) happy as they have the engineering skill to make a door that could open 'Falcon' and 'Van' style.
You could use firmware to give the driver a choice of how it would open and IF the car senses a 'roof rack' that the doors would only open 'van' style. This allows for full use of the X for skis/kayaks on the roof but still gives EM his signature Falcon doors.

Sounds good on paper but how many years would that delay shipment?

 

[DITB]

Tip: simple search works best. I just did a search for "height doors Model X" and got these two results both on the first page...

For-those-worried-about-the-height-of-the-doors-(like-me!)-I-did-some-math

Model-X-Garage-Measurement-Requirements

Note that you can search in individual sections or even within an individual thread using the secondary search button on the right side of the light grey bar just above the threads/posts.

Thanks, NigelM. That shows 85 inches with doors open, pretty much the same I swagged.

I can understand AnxietyRanger, wanting the car and the falcon doors are even more of a special signature of that car than the pano sunroof is/was for the Model S, yet the sunroof was an option you could elect not to have.

Sliding doors seem to work fine for many cars, not sure why it wasn't used on the MX. Sliding doors neither extend up not (very much) out, but they do require a rail of sorts and maybe only suitable for longer cars.

If I had the Model X I would feel in a similar way - cutting edge tech that goes beyond the usual thinking, out of the box literally. It will be interesting to hear feedback, once the cars start to deliver.

 

[AlMc]

Sounds good on paper but how many years would that delay shipment?

TM has known for months (years?) that the Falcon doors have had detractors, especially people who like to travel with 'stuff' on a roof rack. This is just my speculation. If it is not already 'done', it is my opinion that it is too late to think about it now. The hold up on production has been rumored to be the Falcon doors. It could be all about getting them 'right' but 'right' might include an alternative opening solution.

 

[100thMonkey]

as a parent of a 3.5 and 5.5 year old and a previous owner of a three row hybrid limited edition highlander, it's impressive how fast these little ones grow. for a family of 4, we rarely had the need to use the third row even with car seats. it was great to have for the occasional time we had guests, but getting the kids in and out of the car seats just was not a big deal and we have swiftly moved on to booster seats that the kids buckle in themselves. On the occasion we had to use the third row, it was OK that it was more trouble to get in and out of, we were just happy to even have it and be able to so easily fold it down flat for more storage. also, when the kids needed to be in car seats, it was best to have them in the middle row, because at that age, they needed attention of one kind or another and it was much easier to mitigate an issue when they were within reach. I really have yet to hear of a scenario where such open access to the third row is such a high priority as to eliminate the ability to use a roof rack, it feels like a solution to a non-problem, that takes away real functionality. to give up functionality for the life of the car just to improve a functionality that is only a need during the first few years of a child's life and then only with large families, especially when most families these days are 2.6 persons, seems like a poor decision process that departs drastically with the Tesla's flagship car, the S, which improves functionality with essentially no draw backs, on pretty much every front. The X is close enough to an SUV in virtually every other respects that it would fit the bill if not for the falcon doors. As for those who say we should wait before casting judgement, I say no, it is up to Tesla to hear the concerns and offer up whatever solution they are planning. in the absence of a solution being presented by Tesla this late in the game, we are left to assume that they are not planning on a solution. obviously this is a big concern for more than just a few. from the looks of this thread, the percent of folks worried about the falcon doors has only grown, with no real assurance from Tesla that they are addressing the concerns. it feels a bit like brand suicide to ignore the issue at this point. offering a option to accommodate regular access to the roof would surely improve the market draw enough to at least say the option is "coming soon". suicide doors would suit us just fine, or falcon doors that were convertible would be fine.

 

[robby]

as a parent of a 3.5 and 5.5 year old and a previous owner of a three row hybrid limited edition highlander, it's impressive how fast these little ones grow. for a family of 4, we rarely had the need to use the third row even with car seats. it was great to have for the occasional time we had guests, but getting the kids in and out of the car seats just was not a big deal and we have swiftly moved on to booster seats that the kids buckle in themselves. On the occasion we had to use the third row, it was OK that it was more trouble to get in and out of, we were just happy to even have it and be able to so easily fold it down flat for more storage. also, when the kids needed to be in car seats, it was best to have them in the middle row, because at that age, they needed attention of one kind or another and it was much easier to mitigate an issue when they were within reach. I really have yet to hear of a scenario where such open access to the third row is such a high priority as to eliminate the ability to use a roof rack, it feels like a solution to a non-problem, that takes away real functionality. to give up functionality for the life of the car just to improve a functionality that is only a need during the first few years of a child's life and then only with large families, especially when most families these days are 2.6 persons, seems like a poor decision process that departs drastically with the Tesla's flagship car, the S, which improves functionality with essentially no draw backs, on pretty much every front. The X is close enough to an SUV in virtually every other respects that it would fit the bill if not for the falcon doors. As for those who say we should wait before casting judgement, I say no, it is up to Tesla to hear the concerns and offer up whatever solution they are planning. in the absence of a solution being presented by Tesla this late in the game, we are left to assume that they are not planning on a solution. obviously this is a big concern for more than just a few. from the looks of this thread, the percent of folks worried about the falcon doors has only grown, with no real assurance from Tesla that they are addressing the concerns. it feels a bit like brand suicide to ignore the issue at this point. offering a option to accommodate regular access to the roof would surely improve the market draw enough to at least say the option is "coming soon". suicide doors would suit us just fine, or falcon doors that were convertible would be fine.

What concern do you have that has not been addressed? Tesla's head of product design said the falcon doors were no-sacrifice, that they had a second hinge for when they lacked vertical clearance, and that they had a roof rack workaround.

 

[100thMonkey]

What concern do you have that has not been addressed? Tesla's head of product design said the falcon doors were no-sacrifice, that they had a second hinge for when they lacked vertical clearance, and that they had a roof rack workaround.

that's news to me, can you post a link to the reference. a second hinge and a full work around would do the trick. I would still want full assurance that the work around for the roof rack is not crazy complex or limited... quite surprised that we are not being shown the solutions by now or that any official stance is not being put more front and center considering the level of prospective owner concern!

 

[Johan]

The second hinge has been mentioned since day one. It's why they are "Falcon" doors and not gull wings.

The roof rack solution has only been hinted to, never officially mentioned.

 

[bonnie]

that's news to me, can you post a link to the reference. a second hinge and a full work around would do the trick. I would still want full assurance that the work around for the roof rack is not crazy complex or limited... quite surprised that we are not being shown the solutions by now or that any official stance is not being put more front and center considering the level of prospective owner concern!

Hinge:

Model X | Tesla Motors Scroll down to this pic and you can watch the second hinge in action (where the windows meet the roof):

 

[100thMonkey]

The second hinge has been mentioned since day one. It's why they are "Falcon" doors and not gull wings.

The roof rack solution has only been hinted to, never officially mentioned.

oh, I was thinking the reference was to a hinge that allowed the doors to swing horizontally (must have been fantasizing), that would take care of the issue, but sigh, the second hinge as we have seen it does not appear to solve the issues. I have not seen anything in the presentations that addresses the kind of concerns that folks are mentioning about access in low overhead or roof rack applications. the initial reveal of the beta was quite a while ago and it's hard to imagine they have not finalized things by now; assuming so, it's hard to understand why they are not coming forth with the final rendition. using mystery in marketing works, as long as you don't drag it out too long and create frustration to the point that folks start making other plans.

 

[Johan]

oh, I was thinking the reference was to a hinge that allowed the doors to swing horizontally (must have been fantasizing), that would take care of the issue, but sigh, the second hinge as we have seen it does not appear to solve the issues. I have not seen anything in the presentations that addresses the kind of concerns that folks are mentioning about access in low overhead or roof rack applications. the initial reveal of the beta was quite a while ago and it's hard to imagine they have not finalized things by now; assuming so, it's hard to understand why they are not coming forth with the final rendition. using mystery in marketing works, as long as you don't drag it out too long and create frustration to the point that folks start making other plans.

Who knows what opening modes there could be with two hinges? For very low ceilinsg the door could open less up but more out, for situations with tight clearance to the side it could open very little out but a lot up. What it can't do is disappear! It's still better than a regular door. If I'm unclear I'll make a sketch when I get home.

 

[primetime]

I have to say I really am intrigued and looking forward to the Falcon doors, while I only have two kids myself, whenever relatives or in laws come to town I find that invariably I need the third row, even without them my kids like to sit in the back roow sometimes. So having said all that, I can understand the frustration but I have a feeling when they come out they will be more loved than hated.

Can't wait for it to arrive.

Sig X#911

 

[JohnQ]

Who knows what opening modes there could be with two hinges? For very low ceilinsg the door could open less up but more out, for situations with tight clearance to the side it could open very little out but a lot up. What it can't do is disappear! It's still better than a regular door. If I'm unclear I'll make a sketch when I get home.

Yes, provided the hinge can articulate in both directions then it's possible. Honestly, not the most elegant solution in the world, though. How do you "tell" the door what behavior you want? Two buttons ... long hold vs. short hold ... single vs. double press ... any of these are kind of irritating.

For the roof rack it would work since a sensor could determine which mode to use, bit harder when talking about overhead clearance though I suppose the sensors could work there too. Just wouldn't be user selectable.

 

[gavine]

Why are the falcon doors only for the rear? They brag about being able to exit tight parking spots but the only seat that gets used 100% of the time is the driver's seat so what good it is if you can't get out of the front anyway? They should make one big falcon door on each side for the front and back to use simultaneously. In my opinion, it should be all or nothing. Either make it for both front and back or neither.

 

[Johan]

Why are the falcon doors only for the rear? They brag about being able to exit tight parking spots but the only seat that gets used 100% of the time is the driver's seat so what good it is if you can't get out of the front anyway? They should make one big falcon door on each side for the front and back to use simultaneously. In my opinion, it should be all or nothing. Either make it for both front and back or neither.

This I agree with. The "you're able to exit when parked very close to another vehicle" statement does not hold water. But getting in and out of 3rd row, putting kids in the back easier etc. are all true. I would also prefer the all-or-nothing approach I think, but I don't want to say that I think it very strongly since I haven't experienced living with the Model X yet.

 

[AudubonB]

I also agree with Gavine and Johan; my reaction now long back was disappointment at the vehicle having both kinds of doors. I decided that the reason for no front wing doors had to be because the severely sloped A-pillar precluded a hinge there.

 

[robby]

that's news to me, can you post a link to the reference. a second hinge and a full work around would do the trick. I would still want full assurance that the work around for the roof rack is not crazy complex or limited... quite surprised that we are not being shown the solutions by now or that any official stance is not being put more front and center considering the level of prospective owner concern!

I don't have any details beyond what I already mentioned, you can see the quote here at 41:10 Tesla Model S Head of Product Design (Behind the Scenes) - YouTube

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I don't have any details beyond what I already mentioned, you can see the quote here at 41:10 Tesla Model S Head of Product Design (Behind the Scenes) - YouTube

robby, wonderful link! Thank you very much. That really offers hope for the low-ceiling situation and the roof-rack workaround sounds interesting too, although I guess it may not be a roof-rack in the traditional sense?

 

[Lump]

Why are the falcon doors only for the rear? They brag about being able to exit tight parking spots but the only seat that gets used 100% of the time is the driver's seat so what good it is if you can't get out of the front anyway? They should make one big falcon door on each side for the front and back to use simultaneously. In my opinion, it should be all or nothing. Either make it for both front and back or neither.

I didn't need AWD & didn't want the third row but when I realized the falcon doors were only for the rears I ordered my S, for selfish reasons I wanted the falcon doors as the driver & didn't want to hear "comments" from the kids every time they got to use the "awesome doors" & I still had the "20th Century doors", the pessimist in me saw tons of mechanical problems & warranty expenses for Tesla as well.