Faraday Future

[techmaven]

Looks like cylindrical cells

Arranged in bricks, then ganged up in sets of two bricks. 4 holes... maybe two for liquid thermal management and 2 for electrical hookup.

It does appear that the design does not preclude hot swap someday.

Interesting that the shown rendering doesn't extend the battery pack up into the front of the chassis. The Model S skateboard has two more modules in front:

Since the Model S is pretty big already, volumetrically that reduces the amount of batteries you can hold dramatically.

 

[green1]

It does appear that the design does not preclude hot swap someday.

I'm not so sure, in all their renderings they show the battery packs dropping in from the top (where the actual car is in the way) Unlike the MS where the battery pack attaches from the bottom.

This may make the design phase more flexible, but it doesn't look like it will make the final product any easier to work on.

I also note that for all their acronyms, "VPA" is nothing different than what Tesla did with skateboard, which in itself is not even close to a new concept. Tesla can also design with fewer, or more, modules in their packs, they can also change a module in a pack if they want (they don't do it in the field right now, but it's easy enough once you open the pack) so I don't see anything "new" about what's being shown.

So we can argue that it doesn't need to be "new", but then what do we have left? "we'll develop something someday honest!" what's the point to a big reveal for that? it's not even worth a press-release!

 

[1208]

Are we sure this isn't Elon testing the reactions of the public with this Model 3 design concept under the project name Faraday Futures?

Are we not looking at the Model 3?

 

[doug]

Well, that presentation didn't exactly inspire confidence. I'll keep an open mind and give them a chance to show something real, but of course the odds are against them.

Btw, love "The Homer" references.

 

[Trev Page]

In all fairness, they may have very well known that what they were showing wasn't a product. My assumption is that they just weren't ready but had some hard deadlines so did what they could with what they had. After all, they hired 700+ people. Had to make it look good.

Hopefully they actually have substance in the pipeline, but it was a very 'meh' start, full of empty promise.

I hope they can pull it off but after watching that presentation I felt completely let down. They had a *perfect* opportunity to show a real car, not some fanciful concept that is rather pointless. I surely would not have wasted my time building a concept like that. I would have built and shown one of the platforms, much like Tesla has in their showrooms, and a clay model of a prototype of a possible production car.

The only interesting bit was their modular battery and drive train technology, something that Tesla should consider if they haven't already gone that road for Model 3. There's no way that FF will have their battery costs down to Tesla Gigafactory levels in 2 years so I think their rumoured "shared" or "on demand" ownership model will reflect the anticipated high costs of their cars (like Model S) so this is a way to make it "Affordable".

At least Tesla understands that showing a concept is pointless, better to show a real running prototype to get people excited. Faraday totally botched their coming out party.

Oh, well. GM is up next, let's see if they can do better with the Bolt. I, however, am wringing my hands until March...

 

[dsm363]

Are we sure this isn't Elon testing the reactions of the public with this Model 3 design concept under the project name Faraday Futures?

Are we not looking at the Model 3?

No smiley face at end so are you being serious or joking?

 

[dsm363]

They should have waited until CES 2017.

 

[WarpedOne]

The only interesting bit was their modular battery and drive train technology, something that Tesla should consider if they haven't already gone that road for Model 3.

Tesla is already doing that with Model S and X.
Battery is modular, 60kWh had 14 modules, 85kWh has 16 modules. They used same enclosure for both as both were used in same chassis. DU are modular, front unit can drive the car on its own, the rear can drive the car on its own. It just so happens tesla only had one chassis for some years. Now they introduced a second one using *same* DUs an batteries.

 

[1208]

No smiley face at end so are you being serious or joking?

At first I was joking but what if it's really the 3...

 

[ecarfan]

I can also see poking fun at them for the charade of showing a one seater car that isn't even functional. that's silly. still, they are not so silly as to believe selling what we saw last night is part of their business plan. having read a few articles since the event, apparently what we saw last night was just a very expensive prop... nothing they intend to produce and sell.

Well of course it was a "prop", obviously not functional in any way, and a vehicle design that there is no market for (outside of a handful of billionaires who are under 50 and can jump in and out of a car that has no doors). But presenting that kind of "concept" as the first FF vehicle ever shown to the public, it leaves a first and lasting impression that the company is not serious.
So FF set themselves up for massive ridicule and their VPA message (which is not particularly remarkable) got lost in a gale of laughter and derision.
This demonstrates a massive lack of leadership and clear thinking, which does not bode well for the future of FF.
FF apparently does not have anything even close to production ready. If they did, the smart thing would have been to show it and provide some basic information that people can relate to: range, acceleration times, human and cargo capacity, recharging speed, etc.
They did none of that. Which means to me that they don't have any of that nailed down yet, or even a confident approximation of what those parameters will be.
If FF has so many experienced and brilliant EV people working on creating a car, and they can't show even an early prototype of what they plan to build, then they are many years away from mass producing and selling anything. 2017? Get real. Try 2020. Mass producing a car is bloody hard, as Elon has admitted more than a few times.

 

[Johan]

I wonder if the 1000 hp is motor horse powers or battery limited horse powers?

Either way the damn thing better do 0-100 kmph under 3 seconds with 1000 hp!

 

[green1]

I wonder if the 1000 hp is motor horse powers or battery limited horse powers?

Considering it has neither batteries, nor motors I think it's "wishful thinking hp" When you have no vehicle, and no plans to even build it, it's easy to make it have any numbers you want.

 

[omarsultan]

And why produce a working (driving) concept when they don't plan to release that car anyway? You are asking for too much imho after just 18 months, this is still the car sector (no matter how many times they repeat that they work/iterate "very fast".

FF is driving the narrative around spend of execution, so its only fair to judge them on it. They also tout their brain trust and bankroll but seem to have little to show for it.

 

[SuperDragon]

Well of course it was a "prop", obviously not functional in any way, and a vehicle design that there is no market for (outside of a handful of billionaires who are under 50 and can jump in and out of a car that has no doors). But presenting that kind of "concept" as the first FF vehicle ever shown to the public, it leaves a first and lasting impression that the company is not serious.
So FF set themselves up for massive ridicule and their VPA message (which is not particularly remarkable) got lost in a gale of laughter and derision.
This demonstrates a massive lack of leadership and clear thinking, which does not bode well for the future of FF.
FF apparently does not have anything even close to production ready. If they did, the smart thing would have been to show it and provide some basic information that people can relate to: range, acceleration times, human and cargo capacity, recharging speed, etc.
They did none of that. Which means to me that they don't have any of that nailed down yet, or even a confident approximation of what those parameters will be.
If FF has so many experienced and brilliant EV people working on creating a car, and they can't show even an early prototype of what they plan to build, then they are many years away from mass producing and selling anything. 2017? Get real. Try 2020. Mass producing a car is bloody hard, as Elon has admitted more than a few times.

This is 100% spot on

It seemed like the main focus was to introduce Chinese netflix to ces with a electric "prototype" car to create buzz. Not one of the important questions that consumers have about FF were addressed. Im glad I didnt stay up last night to watch the debacle of a presentation. The whole thing is cringe worthy at best, EVs and their consumers are far too smart now days to fall for this kind of smoke and mirror "demonstration"

If FF plans to circumvent the large amount of negative reaction I suggest they come out with a much more reasonable electric vehicle for the masses (soon) but unfortunately this whole thing feels like a bunch of rich car guys that pulled the wool over some foreign investors eyes so they could go onstage and compare them selfs with Elon and Jobs without putting in the actual work.

They said they can work fast.... I guess we will see

 

[granjour]

Can I get a teleprompter..

 

[Yggdrasill]

I watched the presentation just now, and I have to say my impression of Faraday Future was improved somewhat.

From the presentation, I very much got the impression that the concept car is just that, a concept car that they haven't even contemplated producing. And there were a couple of mentions of "production vehicles" like they were completely different from the concept car. I think they went the entirely wrong route with the presentation. They should have had information about the actual production vehicles, but it could be explained by working on several vehicles at once. Instead of saying "we'll be making these vehicles", they opted to distill their philosophy into a concept car. This was a PR blunder, but they're inexperienced, so they might have learned something until the next presentation.

Maybe we'll see something more concrete at CES 2017.

 

[ecarfan]

Faraday Future Loses Battery Designer Before Electric Car Debut - Bloomberg Business
QUOTE: "Faraday Future Inc., the electric-car startup backed by Chinese Internet billionaire Jia Yueting, lost its chief battery architect ahead of introducing its concept vehicle at this week’s Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.
Porter Harris left the company this month and lists his current employer as Lotus Research and Development LLC on his LinkedIn Page. His e-mail address is listed as the primary contact on Lotus R&D’s website. Harris was responsible for engineering and designing Faraday’s battery packs."
--------------
Note: Porter Harris used to work for SpaceX.

 

[Alan Hyndman]

So here's what has been published locally online:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/shows/75644541/faraday-reveals-sleek-sporty-concept-car-in-vegas

Sure it's a concept car (or, ho ho ho, a "car of concepts") but (to me) it looks so seriously impractical that Faraday Futures may have trouble being taken seriously by car buyers.

 

[hockeythug]

Alex Roy claims he saw the real thing:

How did I come to see the real Faraday? Sadly, I can’t explain, but let’s just say that I got a glimpse of a car.A big car. Almost minivan-size. Bigger than a Mercedes-Benz F 015 Concept. Something that could fit five to seven people. Something like aModel X, but bigger and cooler and more futuristic. You can see its rear in the bottom pic, and its silhouette in the top pic, where it’s the larger of the two concepts in shadow.

The real Faraday is some kind of insane offspring of a minivan and aCitroën XM. Like a bloated Ford Scorpio or Renault Avantime. Think… a megapod family transporter, or a Megavan—fully electrified and autonomous—like something out of Sleeper or the original Judge Dreddcomics. It is far more daring and revolutionary than anything from anyoneelse, although the F 015 is its spiritual brethren.

It’s the first car truly designed for Luxury Autonomous Mobility.

http://www.thedrive.com/article/1513/ive-seen-the-real-faraday-do-you-want-to-see-it

 

[ColinA]

So here's what has been published locally online:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/shows/75644541/faraday-reveals-sleek-sporty-concept-car-in-vegas

Sure it's a concept car (or, ho ho ho, a "car of concepts") but (to me) it looks so seriously impractical that Faraday Futures may have trouble being taken seriously by car buyers.

Yes, that was one of Elon Musk's big things - what Tesla showed first must look like a "real" car, be practical, and draw people into the vision of mass market electric cars. But then, if you can believe them, Faraday are cashed up and dont need to attract investors in the way Tesla did at the time. You have to ask though, what was the point in showing the concept car. They would have got a lot more excitement showing something that looked like a real car. The applause they got sounded like someone had to hold up an "applaud now" card to generate.