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Faraday Future
- Thread starter hockeythug
- Start date
Formula Student Germany - FSG TV 2013 - Episode 3 - YouTube
But completely agree. Not useful for production cars at all.
Agreed. That presentation did not advance the EV revolution, it set it back. It invites ridicule. It deserves ridicule. Why show a non-functional mockup of a design that will never ever go into production? There is no significant market for an expensive, single seat, no cargo space, completely impractical 4 wheel vehicle.
It appears that FF's thinking was that if they show a vehicle completely unlike anything that has ever been produced, and use it to vaguely discuss their untested technologies, that it will attract attention and favorable press. But the presentation backfired and had the opposite effect.
This shows that FF management is disconnected from reality. They have created their own "reality distortion field" that exceeds Steve Jobs by an order of magnitude. And Jobs never revealed a new product until it was ready for production, even if the software was still evolving (because of course software is in constant evolution) and not quite ready.
What FF showed was not a product, nothing about it was real, it was just a fantasy.
The VPA approach is interesting but not revolutionary. It will be years (at least 3) before FF is actually producing a real car that is available for sale.
FF appears to be an extension of a Chinese billionaires ego, someone who is not grounded in reality.
I hope FF makes it. But what they did last night does not inspire confidence.
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Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Yeah this is my first post. I have been lurking for about a month reading up on the Model S and test driving, in anticipation of coming out of my Leaf this year. I am a fan as Tesla, although not quite the fanbois I see mostly here. I watched the unveiling with an unbiased view and saw something compelling in the VPA. That is the interesting part. In fact Road and Track nailed it in this article:
Faraday Future CES reveal
[FONT=Georgia, Times, serif]Here's the best quote: "If vehicles do eventually come off of that assembly line, they won't look like the FFZero1. And that's okay—despite the concept car's novel comic-book aesthetic, it's the platform underneath that's the most intriguing part of Faraday Future so far."
The VPA approach alone, will allow them to succeed in my view. A long way to go for sure, but thank Elon and sharing secrets/patents. Competition is good.
Severum[/FONT]
Faraday Future CES reveal
[FONT=Georgia, Times, serif]Here's the best quote: "If vehicles do eventually come off of that assembly line, they won't look like the FFZero1. And that's okay—despite the concept car's novel comic-book aesthetic, it's the platform underneath that's the most intriguing part of Faraday Future so far."
The VPA approach alone, will allow them to succeed in my view. A long way to go for sure, but thank Elon and sharing secrets/patents. Competition is good.
Severum[/FONT]
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Yes
But I'm not sure he could fit his phone to the steering wheel - an extremely avant garde feature.
Again, the focus should be on this video - FFs Variable Platform Architecture - YouTube - not the (concept PR stunt) "Batmobile".
Let's give them about 5 years (I doubt they can ship before 2019-2020 in real numbers, that is beyond a very limited sports car) and wait for the results.
Let's give them about 5 years (I doubt they can ship before 2019-2020 in real numbers, that is beyond a very limited sports car) and wait for the results.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
I'm willing to give them as much time as they say they require. Which is considerably less than that. Their reveal made absolutely no practical sense, when that's what they needed.
They are either completely directionless, or they're putting the cart before the horse. I guess we'll find out in a few years.
eye.surgeon
Active Member
FF, in their current state, without a factory, prototype, or even design apparently for a new car, is at LEAST 5 years away from delivering a product to a customer. I'm shocked that a company so far from a saleable product has over 700 employees. Shocked. They must be burning through SO much capital right now it's frightening.
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Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
This 'variable' might look good but in the end it renders the end product MORE and not less expensive.
Variable means much more interconnects and much higher variation count that hide unforeseen problems. Devil is in details. Variable == higher detail count.
Variable is good for small production runs of a few different products.
When one is building a lot of products, he wants them to be as simple as possible. One distinct battery module with well defined properties.
Case in point: number of battery modules affect vehicle weight. Suspension must be designed with some target weight. Different battery, different suspension or it must be designed with maximum possible weight. Meaning it will be suboptimal for configurations with less weight.
As for presentation, it should end with this video.
Interesting insight, Warped. Thank you.
Regarding the number of employees and cash burn - I believe the number given was 750. They are not all going to be pulling the salaries that Nick Sampson and Richard Kim command. Has anyone the faintest idea what a 23-year old techie out of LETV in Beijing is going to be paid? I don't, but at least salary cash burn is going to be immensely slower in China than in Silicon Valley.
Regarding the number of employees and cash burn - I believe the number given was 750. They are not all going to be pulling the salaries that Nick Sampson and Richard Kim command. Has anyone the faintest idea what a 23-year old techie out of LETV in Beijing is going to be paid? I don't, but at least salary cash burn is going to be immensely slower in China than in Silicon Valley.
green1
Active Member
Didn't they keep saying they were fast?
it was obvious they weren't talking about their car, so I figured they were referring to their cash burn...
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I agree, they made the presentation in a way that told us to focus on this concept car. If they wanted us to focus on the platform, they should have shown a skeleton of the flexible platform instead of the concept car and focused most of the time on the platform. Someone pointed out if they were able to show this concept and then swap the body in real time that would have driven home the point much better.
gimmicky presentation last night, but I don't think the billionaire backing the company got this going as a gimmick. I can see big skepticism as to whether they have the right operational leadership... but Tesla was on its fourth CEO when it delivered its first vehicle. they may be heading for the rocks but they may get out of them.
I can understand why the silliness of the presentation is getting a lot of poking here.
that said, yes they're not a "Tesla Killer." That's just an absurd concept from sensationalist media, and maybe some intellectually dishonest shorts (the group that brought you the nonsense that everything from the Dodge Hellcat to a big Audi diesel was a "Tesla Killer"). Apple can't even be a "Tesla Killer", someone else with a battery with double the energy density at the same cost is nearly impossible to be a "Tesla Killer." That concept is media silliness like their goofy reaction to the fires. I'm not aware of FF ever presenting themselves as this fantasy of a "Tesla Killer." Maybe they did at some point and I missed it... but FF looking like an absurd joke of a "Tesla Killer" is about the media and would be market manipulators offering ridiculous expectations... as far as I know they themselves did not create this goofy expectation.
I can also see poking fun at them for the charade of showing a one seater car that isn't even functional. that's silly. still, they are not so silly as to believe selling what we saw last night is part of their business plan. having read a few articles since the event, apparently what we saw last night was just a very expensive prop... nothing they intend to produce and sell.
I can understand why the silliness of the presentation is getting a lot of poking here.
that said, yes they're not a "Tesla Killer." That's just an absurd concept from sensationalist media, and maybe some intellectually dishonest shorts (the group that brought you the nonsense that everything from the Dodge Hellcat to a big Audi diesel was a "Tesla Killer"). Apple can't even be a "Tesla Killer", someone else with a battery with double the energy density at the same cost is nearly impossible to be a "Tesla Killer." That concept is media silliness like their goofy reaction to the fires. I'm not aware of FF ever presenting themselves as this fantasy of a "Tesla Killer." Maybe they did at some point and I missed it... but FF looking like an absurd joke of a "Tesla Killer" is about the media and would be market manipulators offering ridiculous expectations... as far as I know they themselves did not create this goofy expectation.
I can also see poking fun at them for the charade of showing a one seater car that isn't even functional. that's silly. still, they are not so silly as to believe selling what we saw last night is part of their business plan. having read a few articles since the event, apparently what we saw last night was just a very expensive prop... nothing they intend to produce and sell.
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Funny how Rimac haven't needed $1 billion and 750 staff to produce an actual working "1000bhp" car. Buying these guys might have been a Better Place for FF to start
^ This. I was thinking the same thing reading about the unveil.
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