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EVie'sDad
Member
true, the ultrasonic sensors detect and react to obstacles between 8 and 24 inches above the ground, close low curbs or high beams (or tractor trailers) fall outside that range. The technology is limited in it's capabilities, and should not be relied upon fully for safe traveling. A vigilant driver would have been paying closer attention, although I will be the first to admit that may have not been enough.
What I find surprising is that the front camera failed to determine that this was a large tractor+trailer crossing the vehicles path and did not take appropriate action to slow down. If the tesla driver had his vehicle set to anything less than a 5 in distance keeping, that would not be enough to slow the car down in time from a velocity of 65 mph. I know, I use it a lot and at 3 or 4 or less the reaction time to vehicles in front is far from safe. I for one would like to see that distance keeping setting extended from 3 or 4 to 5 to give the cars more time to avoid just such a circumstance.
wsj article states:
"The Brown family, in a statement, said the accident was “caused by a semi tractor-trailer which crossed a divided highway.”
"The police and an attorney for Mr. Baressi, however, said the cause of the accident is still under investigation.
"Mr. Brown had been previously cited by authorities numerous times for speeding offenses in several states, according to public records. “His history of driving is less relevant than a truck driver cutting across a highway,” said Jack Landskroner, a lawyer for Mr. Brown’s family, adding that the Tesla owner was on his way home to Ohio from Florida when the crash occurred."
"The Brown family, in a statement, said the accident was “caused by a semi tractor-trailer which crossed a divided highway.”
"The police and an attorney for Mr. Baressi, however, said the cause of the accident is still under investigation.
"Mr. Brown had been previously cited by authorities numerous times for speeding offenses in several states, according to public records. “His history of driving is less relevant than a truck driver cutting across a highway,” said Jack Landskroner, a lawyer for Mr. Brown’s family, adding that the Tesla owner was on his way home to Ohio from Florida when the crash occurred."
JeffK
Well-Known Member
From huffington post:
Unless autopilot changed lanes on it's own the Tesla was always in the right lane. By the truck driver's own admission he saw the Tesla and chose to gas it...
Unless autopilot changed lanes on it's own the Tesla was always in the right lane. By the truck driver's own admission he saw the Tesla and chose to gas it...
wcalvin
Member
This crash illustrates a virtue of proper freeways over those 55mph divided roads with left- and U-turn hazards which are so common in Florida.
EVie'sDad
Member
but proper vehicle operation is key to avoiding these incidents. If one does not know the limitations of their vehicle, they should refrain from relying entirely on auto-pilot. Perhaps better vehicle detection and earlier warning may have alerted the driver to the impending accident, but ultimately it was his handling (or misuse) of this new technology that killed him.
Plot thickens.
A few things to keep in mind:
1) Before the incident, this was nothing unusual for the trucker. Now he is going back and trying to remember things after a traumatic event had occurred. This can become difficult for our brains, and we can remember things inaccurately, because we really weren't worried about remembering them at the time.
2) The Tesla changing lanes really doesn't line up with the other pieces of this story. If the driver was watching a movie or otherwise preoccupied/asleep, why would he change lanes? If anything a lane change in that time period would suggest some alertness.
3) I thought I read the original comments from the truck driver was that the Model S was going so fast he didn't even see him? Now he saw him the whole time? Clearly some investigative work to be done.
4) Left-field speculation -- on a road like this in FL, if the driver did have some sort of heart attack or other medical condition that incapacitated him, it's entirely possible that AP could have kept him going for some amount of time if his hands happen to come to rest on the wheel?
Tam
Well-Known Member
According to the article, the truck driver first saw the Tesla on the left (fast) lane of the two lanes. He then saw Tesla was on the right (slow) lane by the time of the collision.
Due to the nature of AutoSteer which only faithfully keeps your car inside your lane, there must be a human input to change lane.
It could be manual steering which would disable Autosteer or AutoLane activation which would continue the full function of Autopilot suite.
If there's human input for lane changing without any brake attempt, it could be some kind of medical problems.
Tesla Autopilot crash: Images of the fatal accident’s aftermath emerge [Video]
So the footage shows a passerby recording the accident- seems pretty clear the video was taken by the driver of the car... Uhhhh, hello. Does no one learn?!
There is a report of a witness claiming our Tesla guy was driving at a high rate of speed, over 85 mph. There are also reports of safety violations by the truck driver. Also reports of portable DVD player from Josh. At this point who really can say who is at fault? But there are indications both drivers may have made mistakes and have a history of them too.
There is absolutely no logic to autopilot being responsible, as has been repeatedly said. Say the guy who recorded the video played in the newscast got into an accident. Blaming autopilot is like blaming an accident on a mobile phone (let's say in the newscast the guy recording the accident scene got into a wreck while recording and sued Verizon for it).
So the footage shows a passerby recording the accident- seems pretty clear the video was taken by the driver of the car... Uhhhh, hello. Does no one learn?!
There is a report of a witness claiming our Tesla guy was driving at a high rate of speed, over 85 mph. There are also reports of safety violations by the truck driver. Also reports of portable DVD player from Josh. At this point who really can say who is at fault? But there are indications both drivers may have made mistakes and have a history of them too.
There is absolutely no logic to autopilot being responsible, as has been repeatedly said. Say the guy who recorded the video played in the newscast got into an accident. Blaming autopilot is like blaming an accident on a mobile phone (let's say in the newscast the guy recording the accident scene got into a wreck while recording and sued Verizon for it).
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Police confirm DVD player found in Tesla Autopilot wreck
Also has the mobileeye statement.
And regarding that, I don't understand why the blog talks about the sun and white truck. This implies the system should have seen the trailer when, in fact, the system is not designed to do so.
Also has the mobileeye statement.
And regarding that, I don't understand why the blog talks about the sun and white truck. This implies the system should have seen the trailer when, in fact, the system is not designed to do so.
EVie'sDad
Member
the system may have seen the trailer, but what settings were configured in the vehicle by the driver, obviously autopilot was enabled and active, but what else? Was he holding the steering wheel, did he use the lane changer to try and avoid the trailer, or did he have his collision detection set to something wrecklessly passive and unresponsive at such a high velocity?(even at 35-40mph following ranges below 5 may not react in sufficient time to attempt to avoid the accident).
alseTrick
Active Member
I've never seen an overhead highway sign that is 8-12' above the road. They're all substantially higher, because, you know, semi trucks have to fit beneath them.
Many of the fanboys on here are trying to give Tesla both ways.
If the sensors see an object in the road that is at windshield level height, Tesla should not create software that tells the vehicle to ignore what it sees. Plain and simple.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Not a lawyer, but I would expect his lawyer to tell him to shut up to the media. He has made multiple conflicting statements to the media, which can be potentially self incriminating. Perhaps he is not in much danger of a successful criminal charge (given there didn't appear to be any other direct witnesses to the crash), but the barrier for a civil charge is much lower.
Quote from the tesla blog:
"Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied".
Like for others to provide their thoughts on that statement. If AP didn't "notice" the side of the truck against a brightly lit sky, is tesla implying it should have?
No of course not. It was already mentioned MobilEye came out with a statement in regards to lateral movement not an ability for the system to account for. Current hardware/software for any collision/semi autonomous is unable to prevent an accident like this. The Tesla blog could have been written better.
EVie'sDad
Member
it's all a matter of perspective, a far away overhead sign may initially appear to be close to road. It's all a matter of perspective, what did the Autopilot camera think it saw is the real question.
Ok. Now can someone explain what function does teslas in-house software has in conjunction to the mobileeye chip? I'm not knowledgeable enough to know. Does their software enhance mobileeyes capability to be able to "notice" this type of situation?
Gilzo,
I've heard Tesla controls the software for the hardware and it is not straight mobile eye. But haven't read or heard anything very specific about tesla software differences vs a straight mobile eye for this kind of situation. Tesla uses its own fleet leaning approach and may be one main difference with other automakers using mobile eye tech.
I imagine the brains of the system and its software so to speak are relatively crude. The future mobile eye tech is supposed to be more capable and smarter. Others have mentioned more advanced chips than the current ones. Q4 or something.
I've heard Tesla controls the software for the hardware and it is not straight mobile eye. But haven't read or heard anything very specific about tesla software differences vs a straight mobile eye for this kind of situation. Tesla uses its own fleet leaning approach and may be one main difference with other automakers using mobile eye tech.
I imagine the brains of the system and its software so to speak are relatively crude. The future mobile eye tech is supposed to be more capable and smarter. Others have mentioned more advanced chips than the current ones. Q4 or something.
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