According to the story the car was in autopilot when it ran the red.
Felony charges filed in a fatal crash involving Autopilot
Felony charges filed in a fatal crash involving Autopilot
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Felony charges for autopilot crash
- Thread starter rijc99
- Start date
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
The driver is responsible when using AP. So charges make total sense.
TresLA
Member
As a note, this crash happened before red light & stop sign recognition was an available feature.
Tam
Well-Known Member
It's bad news for those other Autopilot lawsuits because the government is prosecuting the driver, not Tesla.
Terminator857
Active Member
The right and correct path is being taken. This will strengthen FSD beta driver paranoia and make the system safer.
Whaaaaaat? Someone so clearly irresponsible with the lives of strangers? Try to shift blame onto someone else? Noooooooooo ...
Gives some appreciation for the liability a company faces in deploying a system that actually owns the driving task
Tesla has never been at risk from Autopilot / FSD in terms of owning the driving task, I think the risk there is around reasonably ensuring driver attentiveness when the system is in use
Tesla has never been at risk from Autopilot / FSD in terms of owning the driving task, I think the risk there is around reasonably ensuring driver attentiveness when the system is in use
The article says:
"In the Tesla crash, police said a Model S was moving at a high speed when it left a freeway and ran a red light in the Los Angeles suburb of Gardena and struck a Honda Civic at an intersection on Dec. 29, 2019."
and
"Criminal charging documents do not mention Autopilot. But the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which sent investigators to the crash, confirmed last week that Autopilot was in use in the Tesla at the time of the crash."
When I drive with Autopilot, when I leave a freeway, Autopilot disengages BEFORE I reach any intersection and Autopilot could not, in fact, be in use at the time and place of this crash. I doubt the driver had FSD.
"In the Tesla crash, police said a Model S was moving at a high speed when it left a freeway and ran a red light in the Los Angeles suburb of Gardena and struck a Honda Civic at an intersection on Dec. 29, 2019."
and
"Criminal charging documents do not mention Autopilot. But the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which sent investigators to the crash, confirmed last week that Autopilot was in use in the Tesla at the time of the crash."
When I drive with Autopilot, when I leave a freeway, Autopilot disengages BEFORE I reach any intersection and Autopilot could not, in fact, be in use at the time and place of this crash. I doubt the driver had FSD.
Yeah, the fact that AP was used on the freeway is completely irrelevant. The driver must have re-engaged AP on a local street, and back then, AP could only go straight, and it ignored light states.
-edit-
Actually, rereading the article, what could have happened is that the car had NoA and took the exit. Then the car then auto-disengaged NoA, leaving it in AP. At which point, the car would have just plowed forward through the intersection at the base of the offramp.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Those features aren’t available in autopilot so I fail to see why it requires a mention.
Because the uninformed reader will assume that this crash was caused by a failure in the current release of FSD (or FSD beta), which does respond to traffic signals.
Essentially this driver ran a red light while using traffic aware cruise control (TACC). There are plenty of cars that offer TACC, and none of them would claim to stop at red lights.
So this is literally an "edge case". Where is the edge of the freeway? Navigate on autopilot should have given many warnings that it was about to disengage at the end of the freeway. As soon as the freeway ended navigate on autopilot should have disengaged. Was that before the intersection, at the edge of the intersection, half way through the intersection?
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Presumably they were also using Autosteer. When using only TACC you have to look at the road every once in a while otherwise you will leave the road. Hopefully while someone is looking at the road they will notice that the freeway is about to end.
True, although nothing about 'Autosteer' would suggest that it brakes for red lights. Anyone who buys a Tesla today can enable AP on most streets, and it will sail right through a red light.
That said, I do think this raises a serious issue. With different versions/levels of 'Autopilot' out there, how do you know what the car will do when you enable it? Let's say my own car has FSD Beta, so I expect it to stop for traffic lights. But I borrow a friend's Tesla with base AP, and it happily runs red lights.
Same thing once FSD Beta is released and is part of the FSD package. I subscribe to FSD and my car stops at red lights. I cancel my subscription and now it runs red lights?
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
No version will consistently stop for red lights and it will be your fault if you do. When FSD is out of beta then it will be Tesla's fault if it runs a red light.
Unless things have changed drastically in 10.9, FSD Beta also does not always respond appropriately to traffic controls and portraying it as having that capability is one thing that can lead to drivers making bad decisions and relying too much on the system.
None of these systems are 100% reliable in any of these functions and drivers need to be ready to take over in a split second
None of these systems are 100% reliable in any of these functions and drivers need to be ready to take over in a split second
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