Female engineer sues Tesla, describing a culture of 'pervasive harassment

[longshadows]

If it's true, Tesla needs to address it. It's already had a few bumps over Elon's involvement with President Trump. Liberals are a significant market for EVs and Teslas in particular. If too much of this "old corporate thinking and behavior" comes out, Tesla's sales may suffer.

 

[Pollux]

Did you catch the part where she pointed out QC issues with cars coming off the line and nothing was done? Fits with what gets reported here regarding the lack of QC coming out of the factory.

Obviously, I'm not in a position to have any insightful opinion about her claims.

But what she reports of missed meal breaks, lack of overtime pay, and quality control and/or manufacturing issues, certainly has a resonance. Field observations of product and staff certainly support those contentions. And if she's credible on those claims, might she not also be credible on the sexual harassment claims.

I'm surprised this thread is spending so little time on that aspect of her claims.

Alan

 

[Canuck]

This is unacceptable to me:

Currently, all chief executive positions are held by men at Tesla, and out of more than 30 vice-presidents, only two are women, she added.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that there's a pool of 50 candidates to select from, who will all make good VPs, and Tesla selected the top 30 (28 males and 2 females -- were all better than the remaining 20) but within that last 20, there are 10 females. In my view, the company MUST select all or the majority of those 10 females over 10 males in the top 30 and make them VP's. Call it what you like: affirmative action, promoting someone based on gender, or whatever. That's not only fine by me, it's mandatory if we want to live in a fair and just society. Tesla better quickly realise this and make changes. No one will ever convince me that of all the potential candidates to fill 30 VP position, only 2 females met the criteria. But if that's their position, then they need to promote females over males. Period. It doesn't need to be an even number but it does need to be fair. It's called levelling the playing field and that playing field of Tesla's VP's clearly needs levelling.

We had a similar problem in the legal profession. So law schools accepted more female students than males, the government appointed more female judges, and we reversed the trend significantly in that nearly 40% of practicing lawyers in BC are females today as opposed to only 21% 25 years ago. Did qualified males not get accepted because less qualified females were needed to fill positions? I doubt it but so be it if that happened. The legal profession had to actively select females over males to even out the playing field. Tesla must do the same and in all departments. Those numbers are shocking.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I found @bonnie's and @Az_Rael's stories of supportive colleagues very helpful and inspiring. May that trend continue.

As for the potential issues at Tesla, I agree with those saying they need to be identified and fixed.

 

[mikevbf]

From Fred over at electrek

A Tesla spokesperson sent us the following statement:

“Tesla is committed to creating a positive workplace environment that is free of discrimination for all our employees. Ms. Vandermeyden joined Tesla in a sales position in 2013, and since then, despite having no formal engineering degree, she has sought and moved into successive engineering roles, beginning with her work in Tesla’s paint shop and eventually another role in General Assembly. Even after she made her complaints of alleged discrimination, she sought and was advanced into at least one other new role, evidence of the fact that Tesla is committed to rewarding hard work and talent, regardless of background. When Ms. Vandermeyden first brought her concerns to us over a year ago, we immediately retained a neutral third party, Anne Hilbert of EMC2Law, to investigate her claims so that, if warranted, we could take appropriate action to address the issues she raised. After an exhaustive review of the facts, the independent investigator determined that Ms. Vandermeyden’s “claims of gender discrimination, harassment, and retaliation have not been substantiated.” Without this context, the story presented in the original article is misleading.”

 

[renim]

According to the Tesla statement, Ms. Vandermeyden has no formal engineering degree.

In a fields dominated by statutory qualified professionals, (like engineers), when non degree qualified engineers place the title engineer next to their name, well, the assumption will be that qualities other than brains assisted their career rise.

Its similar to calling a nurse a doctor.

(there will be a glass ceiling, it get through it, get the right degree)

 

[Az_Rael]

According to the Tesla statement, Ms. Vandermeyden has no formal engineering degree

Thats a tough row to hoe for anyone. In my field we have quite a few men who don't have formal engineering degrees, but are perfectly qualified for their engineering jobs. They mostly come out of the military, where they get lots of direct experience, but no formal degree. This does tend to hurt them in the long run as they get passed over for positions that increasingly require the degree.

 

[Shock-On-T]

1 - i stand corrected

2 - i agree with you completely. the problem is everywhere of course. but isn't the problem WORSE in Silicon Valley because of the predominance of men there?

I think you deserve an award for being the first person on this forum to ever change

This is unacceptable to me:



Let's assume for the sake of argument that there's a pool of 50 candidates to select from, who will all make good VPs, and Tesla selected the top 30 (28 males and 2 females -- were all better than the remaining 20) but within that last 20, there are 10 females. In my view, the company MUST select all or the majority of those 10 females over 10 males in the top 30 and make them VP's. Call it what you like: affirmative action, promoting someone based on gender, or whatever. That's not only fine by me, it's mandatory if we want to live in a fair and just society. Tesla better quickly realise this and make changes. No one will ever convince me that of all the potential candidates to fill 30 VP position, only 2 females met the criteria. But if that's their position, then they need to promote females over males. Period. It doesn't need to be an even number but it does need to be fair. It's called levelling the playing field and that playing field of Tesla's VP's clearly needs levelling.

We had a similar problem in the legal profession. So law schools accepted more female students than males, the government appointed more female judges, and we reversed the trend significantly in that nearly 40% of practicing lawyers in BC are females today as opposed to only 21% 25 years ago. Did qualified males not get accepted because less qualified females were needed to fill positions? I doubt it but so be it if that happened. The legal profession had to actively select females over males to even out the playing field. Tesla must do the same and in all departments. Those numbers are shocking.

I agree with you, although an even better reason is that on-paper qualifications can often rank candidates incorrectly, and to go with the 28 males means you miss out on a broader range of experience and skills.
And the worst thing is they don't even know what they're missing, because if they did it wouldn't be missing.

 

[Bet TSLA]

“.... Ms. Vandermeyden joined Tesla in a sales position in 2013, and since then, despite having no formal engineering degree, she has sought and moved into successive engineering roles, beginning with her work in Tesla’s paint shop and eventually another role in General Assembly..... After an exhaustive review of the facts, the independent investigator determined that Ms. Vandermeyden’s “claims of gender discrimination, harassment, and retaliation have not been substantiated.”

Whatever else may be the merits of this case, it's clear to me that she has been an "engineer" as opposed to an engineer, meaning her title contained the word "engineer" but that it didn't mean much. So while this doesn't mean anything one way or the other regarding the lawsuit, it's worth keeping in mind that we're not talking about real engineering jobs here, at least not in a traditional sense. It means that the required qualifications for the job are murkier.

 

[Canuck]

When Ms. Vandermeyden first brought her concerns to us over a year ago, we immediately retained a neutral third party, Anne Hilbert of EMC2Law, to investigate her claims so that, if warranted, we could take appropriate action to address the issues she raised. After an exhaustive review of the facts, the independent investigator determined that Ms. Vandermeyden’s “claims of gender discrimination, harassment, and retaliation have not been substantiated.” Without this context, the story presented in the original article is misleading.”

Interesting. I looked up Ms. Hilbert's credentials:

Anne M. Hilbert | Employment Matters Counseling & Consulting | EMC2

It looks like Tesla took the correct approach in hiring her. Yet I'm always somewhat sceptical of claims of a "neutral third party" when lawyers or any professionals are hired by "large public high-tech companies" as she calls them in her bio, since it's only natural to assume that if she writes a scathing report, another large high tech company might be reluctant to hire her. I make no suggestion this in any way affected her report. But we don't have her report. We only have what appears to be one small excerpt from it in Tesla's press release:

“claims of gender discrimination, harassment, and retaliation have not been substantiated.”

What does "have not been substantiated" mean? What would substantiate the allegations? Corroborative evidence? If so, that's seems difficult to obtain in these types of cases short of depositions and trial where people are sworn under oath with the threat of perjury.

I'm not doubting that Ms. Hilbert is highly qualified or that she did a professional and thorough report. But unless we have that report, and understand the exact nature and scope of the investigations, we can't really draw too much of a conclusion from one small excerpt.

 

[cpa]

The lawyer quoted in the story, Therese Lawless, has an AV rating with Martindale Hubbell.

So, at least the attorney who filed the claim has high ethical standards (as rated by fellow lawyers.)

None of the articles that have been cross-referenced on this thread show the complaint. Has anyone read the actual complaint?

It would be nice to read the exact complaint as filed with the courts.

 

[CmdrThor]

it's not regional. it's more about the field than the location. i'm in the DC area tech industry, and i've witnessed first hand the indignities and discrimination women endure. sometimes these things have been overt, but more often the discrimination was subtle or even probably unconscious on the part of the guy doing it. for example, i had a boss who in every meeting would pick a person to be the designated note taker, and he always picked one of the woman engineers to do it. i'm sure they loved being the stenographer for all our brilliant male thoughts.

I would disagree that location does not play a factor. My wife is an engineer in a male dominated workforce. She is a line engineer and supports crews of linemen. Although they absolutely treat her differently, it is extremely rare any actions would be considered harassment. It tends to go the opposite way, especially when she was pregnant working in the field, still handling 24/7 on call duties, etc. They certainly look out for her in the ways @bonnie has mentioned which has been a big help. Her biggest struggles were when she changed to a new job location and the new crew wasn't as welcoming as the previous. Perhaps it was because she is female, or perhaps it was because they don't warm up to new people quickly. Regardless those struggles have faded away now that she has been at that location for almost 2 years.

You would think that being in the southeast she would run in to more of the good old boy network struggles, and while that certainly still exists around here to some extent, in Atlanta we have a combination of a big city and southern gentlemen values.

 

[FlatSix911]

Complete AA PC nonsense ... I have directed large engineering teams that are promoted based on their skills not gender.

This is unacceptable to me:
Let's assume for the sake of argument that there's a pool of 50 candidates to select from, who will all make good VPs, and Tesla selected the top 30 (28 males and 2 females -- were all better than the remaining 20) but within that last 20, there are 10 females.
In my view, the company MUST select all or the majority of those 10 females over 10 males in the top 30 and make them VP's. Call it what you like: affirmative action, promoting someone based on gender, or whatever. That's not only fine by me, it's mandatory if we want to live in a fair and just society. Tesla better quickly realise this and make changes. No one will ever convince me that of all the potential candidates to fill 30 VP position, only 2 females met the criteria. But if that's their position, then they need to promote females over males. Period. It doesn't need to be an even number but it does need to be fair. It's called levelling the playing field and that playing field of Tesla's VP's clearly needs levelling.

The truth will set you free ... never claim you are engineer if you are not

Tesla responds to allegations of discrimination made by a female engineer, 3rd party review found no wrongdoing

From Fred over at electrek A Tesla spokesperson sent us the following statement:
Ms. Vandermeyden joined Tesla in a sales position in 2013, and since then, despite having no formal engineering degree, she has sought and moved into successive engineering roles, beginning with her work in Tesla’s paint shop and eventually another role in General Assembly. Even after she made her complaints of alleged discrimination, she sought and was advanced into at least one other new role, evidence of the fact that Tesla is committed to rewarding hard work and talent, regardless of background. When Ms. Vandermeyden first brought her concerns to us over a year ago, we immediately retained a neutral third party, Anne Hilbert of EMC2Law, to investigate her claims so that, if warranted, we could take appropriate action to address the issues she raised. After an exhaustive review of the facts, the independent investigator determined that Ms. Vandermeyden’s “claims of gender discrimination, harassment, and retaliation have not been substantiated.” Without this context, the story presented in the original article is misleading.”

 

[Canuck]

The truth will set you free ...

I wasn't commenting on Ms. Vandermeyden so I don't know why you directed me to that quote. I don't know who to believe when it comes to her grievance. I will wait for the court to rule on her case but like most of these cases it will probably settle with a confidentiality clause and we will never know the true facts.

My comment was directed at Tesla having over 30 VPs only 2 of which are female. That's a fact. That's the TRUTH and that's what I commented on.

So I'm set free I guess.

 

[ohmman]

I have to admit, I did get tickled to hear one of my favorite redirections here.

"I'm just messing with you! But seriously, everything I said was totally legit."

On "PC culture," here's the deal. Being "PC" is the more difficult choice. Sexism, racism, nationalism, and the like are all forms of heuristics, or cognitive shortcuts that allow us to simplify complex situations. Dissecting each scenario as an individual decision is cognitively intensive and most certainly the more difficult choice. However, it's also likely to be the choice that's wrong less often. Challenging your inherent biases can be exhausting, but it is the path to being less wrong.

So when someone is tired of "PC culture," what they're saying is that they're mentally tired of thinking about it. No doubt it's draining as each person adapts. It's easier to rely on those shortcuts. I get it, but I cannot stand seeing people say that they're somehow taking the higher ground by ditching the more mentally intense exercise. It's more accurate to say, "I'm tired of thinking about this. I'm probably wrong, but it's exhausting."

 

[bonnie]

It's been an interesting & revealing discussion. I've certainly learned quite a bit re some fellow forum members this evening. And I don't mean just what was said, but also ratings applied to particular posts, etc.

 

[Kira]

Others have responded so thoughtfully to the recent "non-PC" comments but as one of the few (only?) nurses around here, perhaps I could address the intriguing suggestion that women who can't handle working with men should join my field. Yes indeed, sensational idea - because of course nurses work exclusively with female patients and an entirely female interprofessional health care team. Plus, nursing is a really relaxing profession, quite low-intensity - perfect for those who can't handle pressure of any kind.

 

[mblakele]

According to the Tesla statement, Ms. Vandermeyden has no formal engineering degree.

Thats a tough row to hoe for anyone. In my field we have quite a few men who don't have formal engineering degrees, but are perfectly qualified for their engineering jobs. They mostly come out of the military, where they get lots of direct experience, but no formal degree. This does tend to hurt them in the long run as they get passed over for positions that increasingly require the degree.

I've seen some of that too, but I've also worked with a number of successful autodidacts. It depends on the company, the person, and the available roles.

Anyway at https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-vandermeyden-89a90163 I see a BS in Microbiology, Immunology, and Molecular Genetics from UCLA (2006). That's a pretty good technical qualification: not a formal engineering degree, but not chopped liver either. Her work history suggests that she put herself through college, which says something about her character. If I were hiring for a technical role that didn't absolutely require an engineering degree, I'd be inclined to give her an interview.

That said, she's no longer in an engineering role at Tesla: her title is now "Operations Commodity Manager". Previously her titles at Tesla were "Inside Sales Product Specialist", "Engineering Project Coordinator", and "Manufacturing Engineer". Who knows? Maybe her next role will start with "Director" or "VP". Maybe at Tesla, or maybe not.

 

[renim]

Others have responded so thoughtfully to the recent "non-PC" comments but as one of the few (only?) nurses around here, perhaps I could address the intriguing suggestion that women who can't handle working with men should join my field. Yes indeed, sensational idea - because of course nurses work exclusively with female patients and an entirely female interprofessional health care team. Plus, nursing is a really relaxing profession, quite low-intensity - perfect for those who can't handle pressure of any kind.

I have 2 brother in laws who are nurses.
One is a paramedic - ambo - that is one seriously twisted job
a bad day for him is to save a life just to pass it over to young doctor who lets it slip away.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Others have responded so thoughtfully to the recent "non-PC" comments but as one of the few (only?) nurses around here, perhaps I could address the intriguing suggestion that women who can't handle working with men should join my field. Yes indeed, sensational idea - because of course nurses work exclusively with female patients and an entirely female interprofessional health care team. Plus, nursing is a really relaxing profession, quite low-intensity - perfect for those who can't handle pressure of any kind.

This only loosely relates, but I've always been bothered by the lack of women in the engineering profession. Namely mechanical engineers, electrical engineers. etc. In fact I've gone my entire 20+ year career without ever working alongside a female engineer. It's pretty sad every way around especially if someone believes as I do that having diversity improves everything. That when it's all said and done we would live a happier more productive life if this condition didn't currently exist.

But, what I find truly funny is a lot of the girls I've dated having gone into nursing.

Yet, the stories I hear from them are horror stories.

"You're out if you fail one class"
"You need to get a 96% to get an A"

and we're not even getting to the dealing with doctors or patients part of it.

Where my reality in Engineering is it's pretty damn easy. Sure I get my butt kicked by some problem from time to time, but with enough effort I solve the problem. No one is ever too critical if I a few boards go up in smoke in development. I tend to make a few mistakes here and there, and that's why I love engineering.

I don't even think I'd make it through some orientation class in nursing.

Sure I get that women are socialized to help, but building a better bot will help people in the long term.