Sounds like a great car, let alone one for £21k. If there was a Tesla badge on it and called the Model 2 it would probably sell easily at £30k-£35k. Funny old world.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Finally getting second EV - any hints?
- Thread starter Avendit
- Start date
I would love to have one of that little thing. But I still think they are bit pricey for what their ICE car sibling offer. And people especially who are not into EVs are going to see only from that price perspective. And the new Jeep avenger (ICE version) the base one can be had for £21K without any bells and whistles (but does include most necessary stuff). It is bigger, rides well has a reasonable rear leg space and a boot. And to top it all, it is a high riding SUV from the same Stelantis group.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
We were specifically looking for a physically small car with cheap insurance and there was not much else out there. The Mini is sold as a sports car and has a lot more power so was too expensive to put the kids on. 208/Corsa also a bit more to insure and quite a lot larger. So 500e it was. But I agree big discounts sound good but 20K + (25K in my case) for a Fiat 500 is still a lot of money. Fortunately I was able to buy it as a company car which made it more palatable.
Drew57
Active ember
Even buying ours close to initial launch I managed to get a decent discount against a new La Prima/Celestial Blue, plus Gov't support at the time giving a further £1500 discount. Depreciation will hit residuals for sure but we tend to keep the second car for at least 7-8 years. We were happy then to spend just over £26k and still feel the same now given how much we like the car.
Insurance cost has been low for both renewals & 3,400 miles to date has cost less than £80 given that it frequently charges from solar panels, the rest at 7.5p/IOG. Today solar added more to the batteries than it started with - my wife used it twice totalling 11.5 miles and it's not even been particularly bright or sunny.
It's been a really efficient little runaround for what we need, the only drawback being some pretty atrocious behaviour from Stellantis between ordering and collection. Even Tesla would not have pulled the tricks they tried to impose!
Insurance cost has been low for both renewals & 3,400 miles to date has cost less than £80 given that it frequently charges from solar panels, the rest at 7.5p/IOG. Today solar added more to the batteries than it started with - my wife used it twice totalling 11.5 miles and it's not even been particularly bright or sunny.
It's been a really efficient little runaround for what we need, the only drawback being some pretty atrocious behaviour from Stellantis between ordering and collection. Even Tesla would not have pulled the tricks they tried to impose!
To add some balance, we bought a 40kWh Leaf as a second car 4 years ago, and I wish we had just bought another Tesla. It's got poor efficiency, about 350Wh/mile, needs charging every time my wife goes anywhere, and if she ever needs to go more than 50 miles she takes my car instead because it's not worth the effort to charge it at such a dreadful rate.
Add to that the lane assist is utterly horrible on country roads, the climate control is hopeless, the cameras and birdseye are so blurry they are pointless, the app is useless, the navigation is dreadful etc.
It cost half what my Model 3 cost, and I reckon it's about 25% as good.
Add to that the lane assist is utterly horrible on country roads, the climate control is hopeless, the cameras and birdseye are so blurry they are pointless, the app is useless, the navigation is dreadful etc.
It cost half what my Model 3 cost, and I reckon it's about 25% as good.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
No idea what the efficiency of the Fiat is around town but on our one and only road trip I recon I got around 250wh/m so not really much different to the Model Y
Drew57
Active ember
Sorry about this, it's a long and sorry tale which if nothing else puts some of the Tesla horror stories into perspective....
We purchased at the agreed price in August 2022, the car was correctly invoiced prior to us going to the USA for 6 weeks at the end of November & collection was due after return in January. After zero communication or response to requests for an update, on the 26th December I received a blunt message that Stelantis/Fiat Italy were imposing a unilateral 5% fixed price increase and unless we paid in full and the car was taxed by 31st December this increase would be applied and a new invoice was to be presented. The £1500 additional Government discount might also be withdrawn because they hadn't registered it yet as company policy was to do this just before completion! Given that we were in the USA, we had effectively three days notice.
With a 7 hour time difference I set an alarm to to awake at 2am on the 27th to speak to the dealership Sales Manager (who subsequently sounded like a twelve year old on the phone & always referred to me as 'mate') and was informed that he was in training and would call back. He didn't so I called several more times but it was not until the morning of the 28th that he finally lectured me and insisted that the monies had to be in their bank account within two days. "Sorry mate", Stelantis would not budge, there was nothing they could do and they could not honour the agreed price if we did not pay immediately.
Not wanting to lose the car or a very good price reduction we made the transfer via CHAPS and I sent proof of this from our bank account but was told the dealer accounts department couldn't confirm until the 29th or maybe the 30th because we had paid "awfully close to the deadline and it's nearly Christmas" Bloody Cheek!
Then there was an error with the DVLA (a numeral was missing from the tax document so the car could not be taxed, only discovered after I did some research online and then pointed it out to the clueless dealership). I also noticed numerous blatant lies and contradictions the more I communicated with them, on one occasion a verbal conversation with almost the exact opposite of information I had already receive in writing from the same person. Pointing this out on a subsequent call resulted in a torrent of expletives and the line going dead. I could not even escalate the situation because I was informed that it was 'Christmas' and all the Senior Management were already away on their break.
Talking to a more friendly soul in the finance department while the 12 y old presumably received more training (schooling), Stelantis still couldn't confirm receipt of the monies and neither was the car taxed by the morning of the 30th. I made numerous overseas phone calls, attempting to talk to the 'child' at the dealership, never receiving replies and with many of these having been in the middle of the night from my Daughters frozen garage so I did not wake the family.
At the eleventh hour it finally transpired that the dealer had in fact managed to find the missing transaction, they had accidentally booked it against another customers account and finally acknowledged that the DVLA error was as I had alerted them to the previous day so 'they' were trying to now resolve it.
Somehow they did do this by the deadline so we could finally put it all behind us....or so we thought.
Returning to the UK a few days later, we drove 120 miles to collect the car, my wife was presented with bottle of cheap Lambrini wrapped in a tacky bow while the 12 year old grovelled that this was a one-off and how embarrassing it had all been (he also looked even younger than he sounded). Coffees and biscuits came and went as various members of junior staff were also paraded in to add more snivelling platitudes.
We were shown the car which looked very nice and then sat in an office for more than an hour as one after another of these people attempted to connect the vehicle to my wifes account via the Connect App. It would not work, the now returned to work Sales Director was the last to attempt this so finally, in desperation they decided to bring in the former 'assistant specialist' who had been 'promoted' to their next door Citroen dealership. He immediately realised that the VIN of the car they were attempting to connect (which now had my wifes personal plate) was in fact another customers identical La Prima.... a different customer to the account they had previously allocated our payment to by the way.
It then transpired that our actual car was in a muddy storage field several miles away but with minimal charge and requiring various checks, plate swapping, charging etc. It would be a further long wait after already being there for more than three hours so I said, no - all excitement about the new car had evaporated long ago and we just wanted to go home so they needed to deliver the car back to us and I expected it to have a full charge, completely spotless inside and out regardless of the 120 mile journey across the Pennines.
That happened two days later and I even found it in my heart to drive the delivery chap to the local station. During that drive he said that it was his last week, there had been quite a lot of instances like this and several staff were being laid off.
The company no longer represents Fiat but we were always going to use our local dealership for servicing anyway. Just a shame that they were more than a thousand £ more expensive but it makes sense of course, given how we were treated.
@Drew57 . Your story did take me back to my recollection of the Stellantis dealership that we dealt with when buying the 500e.
Left me feeling that the death of the physical franchise model can’t come soon enough.
If they make a car-themed version of The Office, they could start there for inspiration.
Left me feeling that the death of the physical franchise model can’t come soon enough.
If they make a car-themed version of The Office, they could start there for inspiration.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Not related to your choice of car
When we got the first MS (back in 2015) we kept the 2nd car (ICE) as a backup. In 2019 we replaced the MS with a Raven MS (real world range up from 240 to just shy of 300 motorway miles). Was doing about 30K miles p.a. at that time, and looking at the data for the old car we figured, for the out-and-back trips we did, that in the Raven our Supercharging would drop from 2x a month to "almost never"
So we decided to get rid of the ICE backup (got a 3 and subsequently replaced that with a Y 'coz we had needed hatchback all along), as the MS Raven range was a match for ICE backup even on a trip to the Alps
None of that relevant, just background
We put in a 2nd wall charger (very very rare we need both-at-once, but it does avoid car-shuffle on the driveway)
Original was Tesla, new is Zappi. Thought we would use Zappi for Solar PV car charging (when it detected export). In practice on days when the clouds float over the Zappi Eco+ mode cuts out (after a bit of buffering), and I think its the wrong solution.
The two wall chargers were installed "where the cars park" - which is longways nose-to-tail along the front of the house (rather than "one-end-in")
I wish I had considered putting both chargers at the mid point between the two packing spots. Cables would still reach and, more importantly, either charger would reach either car. That may seem nuts, but we have situations where we want to cross over cables - depending on what car arrives when, including a visiting EV mate who needs a charge.
Also, Tesla wall charger has "the button" for cable release, and Zappi doesn't. MS has a button by the charge port for "release" ... so basically we charge MS from Zappi and 3 / Y from Tesla wall charger. Which means we have to park right-car in right-place. Its a trivial thing but it is surprising how often there is a kerfuffle, and cross-over charge cables would help us (my advice: choose wall charger brand based on generous cable length
)I dunno about your Real World. Maybe none of this would be a Use Case for you? A scenario is where one charger is bust - and making the other reach the "other" car. Or specifically needing to use Charge-A with Car-B for some reason. Actually that might be a reason for having different brans of wall charger - e.g. Mate rocks up in an Acme Brand EV, and guess what Charge-A doesn't work, and you want to try Charger-B
That's also the case for ONE wall charger of course (servicing two cars). Wall charger needs to b positioned "between" rather than "Ideal for Car-A") - that advice will be a bit late at the point of buying a 2nd EV!
There there is the whole right-side / wrong-side / left-side charging port issue, as you buy different EV brands over the years, and have increasing numbers of visiting EV mates. We have an in-out drive. We used to come in the "first one you naturally come to" but that is wrong-side for Tesla charge port (cable will reach, but then the Wand sticks out a bit and could get caught by White-van-man-in-a-hurry squeezing past). So we now come in wrong-end, to have charge port on the wall-side (so car is facing "the other-way" on the drive), and other visitors (who come in first-entrance) apologise, seeing alignment of our cars, for "coming in the wrong entrance" <sigh>
Whole stack of strictly 1st world problems there. Possibly of zero interest, sorry.
And if you have two completely parking bays with significant gap between them then any possible sharing-benefit is moot anyway. TL;DR - consider what car-shuffle you will have to do on the driveway in regard to charger location
Dunno how much PV you have (and in todays Octopus-climate you would be exporting, rather than charging cars, but that may change). We have 48 panels, 2x PowerWall (so 10kW max charge rate), and 2x 7 kW wall chargers. PV will hit 14~15kW in mid summer ... so "charge PW then car" doesn't work (unless both cars are here and both have spare capacity), so we acutally force-charge a car(s) at same time as PW, in mid Summer, on days when weather forecast is "Max kW" so that PowerWall takes longer to reach 100%, by which time the sun has gone past its zenith. (All that needs cobbled-together API stuff, or manual intervention)
When I started looking round for a 500e for my wife my first port of call was our nearest Fiat dealer (Aberdeen). I was so disappointed with a) their obvious lack of knowledge about their products and b) their insistence on trying to sell me a vehicle they had in stock rather than with the particular options I wanted. An example of their ignorance was when I asked if you could schedule charging to take advantage of cheap overnight rates. Their response was plug it into a 3 pin socket with a timer!
I decided not to use this dealer either in Aberdeen or any other branch and went to an independent Fiat main dealer in Inverness. What a difference. In response to my telephone enquiry re scheduled charging he immediately replied yes there is a screen in car and an app that allows this and he even sent me a screen shot of the scheduling screen. He could answer all my questions without hesitation and was more than happy to order to my own spec. Great service although I still prefer the Tesla sales model.
I decided not to use this dealer either in Aberdeen or any other branch and went to an independent Fiat main dealer in Inverness. What a difference. In response to my telephone enquiry re scheduled charging he immediately replied yes there is a screen in car and an app that allows this and he even sent me a screen shot of the scheduling screen. He could answer all my questions without hesitation and was more than happy to order to my own spec. Great service although I still prefer the Tesla sales model.
Fortunately we thought about most of this when buying and siting the (singular) charger and it is between our parking places and has a 8.5m cable on it. There are 13a sockets another meter away in the garage if we need them for backup. And I mostly charge once a week at work for free
. It is tempting to go in a second day and take the other car...We are solar, 19 panels but E/W split so we don't have a real peak to deal with. Ultimately its only ~10-15 days a year with enough excess to worry about. The charger is supposed to manage this, but I've not managed to get the CT clamp reading accurately enough for it to really work so I've been curve matching manually in the tesla app. And as you say, currently better to export if what you are doing is otherwise something that could be done overnight at 7.5p.
So, day 1 done! Car arrived pretty perfect, new type 2 cable supplied since the garage had been using the car's one and all good.
2 slight weirdnesses I wonder if people can help with?
. That its plugged in and time to full is it. Can't stop, can't see or control speed. No start button to over ride a scheduled charge. And if you want to stop and unplug, its a physical button to press at the charge port. A somewhat... different philosophy from tesla!
Now to try and get the app working, and possibly test the tesla's granny charger.
2 slight weirdnesses I wonder if people can help with?
- The centre dash screen (uConnect screen in official parlance) is off every time we unlock then get in the car. A quick click on the hardware volume control in the centre console has it up and running in a few seconds, but the car didn't do that as we pulled out the garage and the demo car didn't do it either. Is this likely to be connected with a setting we have fiddled with, and if so any idea which?
- You can't turn the headlights off at all? If its dark and you are in the car, they are on? If you are sitting charging, or waiting for someone, the lights have to be on?
. That its plugged in and time to full is it. Can't stop, can't see or control speed. No start button to over ride a scheduled charge. And if you want to stop and unplug, its a physical button to press at the charge port. A somewhat... different philosophy from tesla!Now to try and get the app working, and possibly test the tesla's granny charger.
Hi. My screen comes on after unlocking. Although the options are all over the place, I can’t remember seeing anything that would keep the screen off until you touch something.
I can’t see a way to turn lights off too haha. Perhaps someone can help us both here!
Yeh charging is basic! I thought the ‘bars’ relating to charging level were charging % but it’s not. Pretty useless. Timer works well though. So on Octopus I just set the car to the off peak times. It charges to 100% but I understand that’s ok as it’s not ‘actually’ 100%.
I can’t see a way to turn lights off too haha. Perhaps someone can help us both here!
Yeh charging is basic! I thought the ‘bars’ relating to charging level were charging % but it’s not. Pretty useless. Timer works well though. So on Octopus I just set the car to the off peak times. It charges to 100% but I understand that’s ok as it’s not ‘actually’ 100%.
Drew57
Active ember
Same here, the screen has always come on a soon as the car is unlocked and the lights stay on (make sure the switch on the lighting stalk stays at 'Auto' though so main beam isn't on unnecessarily). As the Fiat is plugged into our Zappi much of the time, charging & therefore the car's SOC comes and goes with the sun and usage. Occasionally it's used for a slightly longer journey and that's the only time we use a scheduled charge, always to 100%.
One other thing that we have never actually needed is that a software reset can be instigated by pressing and holding the volume scroll wheel on the console between the seats.
One other thing that we have never actually needed is that a software reset can be instigated by pressing and holding the volume scroll wheel on the console between the seats.
Centre dash screen now disabled due to a software update? ..or is that just my Tesla update experience talking?
Really like the sound of the 500e, I'm fed up how wide the MY is around town and for parking. Just need the wife to want to move on from her completely reliable and comfortable Lexus, hmm.
Interested in how you continue to find it, it seems very economical.
It’s great for around town and parking. I’ll steal hers in preference to the MY if heading to the shops. It also turns in the width of the road thanks to better steering lock and v short wheelbase unlike the MY barge.Centre dash screen now disabled due to a software update? ..or is that just my Tesla update experience talking?
Really like the sound of the 500e, I'm fed up how wide the MY is around town and for parking. Just need the wife to want to move on from her completely reliable and comfortable Lexus, hmm.
Interested in how you continue to find it, it seems very economical.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
We bought one for around town and it is much easier to maneuverer in tight spaces than an MY.Centre dash screen now disabled due to a software update? ..or is that just my Tesla update experience talking?
Really like the sound of the 500e, I'm fed up how wide the MY is around town and for parking. Just need the wife to want to move on from her completely reliable and comfortable Lexus, hmm.
Interested in how you continue to find it, it seems very economical.
Regen level is similar and it does proper one pedal driving which was a must have so its easy to swap between it and a Tesla without having to change your driving style which is very useful.
Not sure if the turning circle is anything special but it feels like it's amazing when compared to the MY.
Only driving dynamic criticism is the throttle is not as progressive as the Tesla at very low speed which can make parking / 3 point turns etc a little jerky. I guess you get used to it but since it is not my main car I have not yet.
My wife really wanted a Mini but the insurance for a teenager was double due to the extra power and being sold as a hot hatch. I pushed her towards the 500e. She is very happy with it now we have it.
Not sure it actually uses much if any less juice than the MY but with home charging at 7.5p I don't care.
If only I could remember to turn it off and lock it when I get out!
now, I do not want to say anything.. no judging... but it looks like you are married to teenager...
