Firmware 8.0

[BertL]

The easiest thing they can do to help with large USB libraries is to add a scroll bar slider. Instead of having to scroll with your finger 20 times to get through a list of albums or artists, you could scroll with a single swipe to a general area. This would minimize time. Very simple fix. Adding an A-Z jump would help, but I think there would be a lot of miss-clicks there too.

A slightly more difficult thing to do would be to utilize the right wheel/button on the steering wheel. Be able to select media and then scroll/select using your thumb instead of using the touch screen to move through items. The right wheel/button is mostly utility anyway. Having a 4 direction toggle would be even better, but that requires physical changes to the car.

We had the A-Z vertical selection ability for long lists until 8.0 when it was eliminated. IMHO 8.0 additionally complicates the ability to quickly see what you are looking for by using a 2-up list (L-R-L-R-etc) where each selectable item consists of two lines with similar text styling. The information presented is generally valuable, just poorly presented from a UI a perspective where someone should be keeping their eyes on the road, not the 17" CID for more than a quick moment.

 

[Adrian]

I still think "truck lust" is a myth, when AP first came out; I thought the same thing. But, I started looking at the toy car whenever I pass a truck and the car is usually centered (90%+).

Here's some "truck lust" from the Norwegian forum, also on 7.1:

Gfy link: "truck lyst".gfy

 

[BLKTSLA]

The easiest thing they can do to help with large USB libraries is to add a scroll bar slider. Instead of having to scroll with your finger 20 times to get through a list of albums or artists, you could scroll with a single swipe to a general area. This would minimize time. Very simple fix. Adding an A-Z jump would help, but I think there would be a lot of miss-clicks there too.

A slightly more difficult thing to do would be to utilize the right wheel/button on the steering wheel. Be able to select media and then scroll/select using your thumb instead of using the touch screen to move through items. The right wheel/button is mostly utility anyway. Having a 4 direction toggle would be even better, but that requires physical changes to the car.

I think the solution aside from adding back the A-Z quick jump, is to add the USB to the voice commands and expanding the voice commands. I should be able to say "Play [Artist/Song, Song by Artist]" then the option on the IC should let you choose streaming or local (USB) just the way it works with your phone and dialing a contact. This would help and streamline the process. Similarly they could allow you to use playlists and people could make playlists that could help play a mix/selection of songs easier than navigating the long lists.

We had the A-Z vertical selection ability for long lists until 8.0 when it was eliminated. IMHO 8.0 additionally complicates the ability to quickly see what you are looking for by using a 2-up list (L-R-L-R-etc) where each selectable item consists of two lines with similar text styling. The information presented is generally valuable, just poorly presented from a UI a perspective where someone should be keeping their eyes on the road, not the 17" CID for more than a quick moment.

I don't have a problem with the 2 column approach as it reduces the scrolling needed, however, I do see what you mean about it being hard to see at a glance with the fonts, colors and the side-by-side orientation. I think that usability is a weak point of Tesla at times, where they cant quite straddle the line between "Things that are useful" vs "Things that are easy to use while driving". The Touchscreen is a definite example of this where you have things that work well but are not in a place to help the driver keep their eye on the road. I think having more configurable displays would help this, being able to have more options of what you want to see on the IC and touch screen and where you want to see them would be helpful. If you could could split the upper or lower screens in half that would also help.

One point to note is that if they oriented the main controls into the left side of the touch screen that would be easier to reach then they are now. I think thats where they are going with the Model 3 and the horizontal touchscreen. I saw it in person the ability to have all of your functions right next to you while the map was to the right was great. See below that media box could be dragged to either side of the screen.

 

[wbhokie]

I think the solution aside from adding back the A-Z quick jump, is to add the USB to the voice commands and expanding the voice commands. I should be able to say "Play [Artist/Song, Song by Artist]" then the option on the IC should let you choose streaming or local (USB) just the way it works with your phone and dialing a contact. This would help and streamline the process. Similarly they could allow you to use playlists and people could make playlists that could help play a mix/selection of songs easier than navigating the long lists.


I don't have a problem with the 2 column approach as it reduces the scrolling needed, however, I do see what you mean about it being hard to see at a glance with the fonts, colors and the side-by-side orientation. I think that usability is a weak point of Tesla at times, where they cant quite straddle the line between "Things that are useful" vs "Things that are easy to use while driving". The Touchscreen is a definite example of this where you have things that work well but are not in a place to help the driver keep their eye on the road. I think having more configurable displays would help this, being able to have more options of what you want to see on the IC and touch screen and where you want to see them would be helpful. If you could could split the upper or lower screens in half that would also help.

I agree, I'd like the voice command to work with USB. Things like navigation and phone work very well with voice. Much better than cars I've owned in the past. That would make things less complicated. I haven't experienced one instance when the voice search didn't pick up what I said. Sometimes it didn't get what I wanted, but it found results based on the name I searched for.

I'd be fine with an A-Z or a scroll as long as I didn't have to scroll through one screen of names each time. That is not only bad design, it is dangerous when driving. If I could hit USB, scroll with the right "wheel" on the steering wheel, and push it to select, then I could keep my eyes forward. That would be much more useful than seeing album / station art above my steering wheel.

I like the idea of custom drag windows too, but it can't be the only change. It still involves too much interaction with the touch screen to accomplish a task.

 

[TexasEV]

I like the idea of custom drag windows too, but it can't be the only change. It still involves too much interaction with the touch screen to accomplish a task.

The sad thing is the earlier versions of the firmware didn't require this much interaction with the touchscreen, and the interaction was easier with a quick glance when it had large buttons for visual clues and better contrast to the text. The 8.0 "upgrade" looks like it was designed for a tablet to be used by people in their 20s and 30s, not by people of all ages while driving.

 

[mrElbe]

Out of curiosity, how did you find out the date of the map data?

Bruce.

I got it from the cryptic wk057 list he quoted once.

 

[dow]

I also suspect that the traffic aware routing is based on connecting to Garmin's traffic data rather than Googles. Ideally both should reflect the same reality, but this could be affected by the data sources available to each of them.

Finally, I think that the updated "Navigation software" in 8.0 refers only to Map App that appears on the console. I suspect that the embedded Navigon software has not been updated and so the underlying navigation flaws will remain. Seems consistent with the evidence.

While we can and should complain to Tesla about navigation problems, but realistically all Tesla can do is lean on Navigon for improvements or switch to another embedded navigation vendor. Not sure who that might be or if they would be any better. Unlikely that Tesla would pull this in house since is it does not (yet) seem part of the core mission (EV, batteries, and getting to autonomous driving).

Definitely true that Tesla elected to use a traffic data supplier other than Google. Had that confirmed for me by Tesla support. They wouldn't say which, but it is pretty obviously something bundled by Garmin/Navigon. And they know it is unusably bad. Leading to the hilarious sight of thousands of high-end luxury car owners ignoring the biggest dashboard screens in history and navigating with their smartphones.

Unclear whether the Navigon component is untouched in 8 (plausible, good guess) or lightly touched; either way, the net result is the same: navigation is still utterly useless within 20 miles of a major city (where traffic conditions are 90% of the routing problem). Not that I expected any better in 8.0, but it is a shameful state of affairs for Tesla, considering how many years they've had to cut a deal with Google or another reputable nav services provider, or prioritize their own work on the problem over e.g. endless re-skinning, or arranging deckchairs on their sub-smartphone entertainment features, or most obviously (please for the love of god) support Android Auto and CarPlay.

The smartphone vendors are ahead by 7+ years in every significant feature from media to nav to communications, and you are never catching up.

My guess: this sad state of affairs seems likely to persist until...

• the next major rev of the Tesla in-dash CPU packages and OS (model 3 launch? Later for other models?)
• Autopilot 2.0 hardware/software rollout? (Same as above or maybe separate... 2017? 2020?)
• Tesla acquisition by e.g. Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, plus the 3-4-year ramp time for the combined entity to plan, execute, and test overhauled firmware with new goodies from the parent company?

Fun rumor, told to me by a Tesla employee: Tesla passed on a chance to acquire Waze, for peanuts, before they ultimately exited to Google. Argh...

 

[tezzla]

Here's some "truck lust" from the Norwegian forum, also on 7.1:

Gfy link: "truck lyst".gfy

This is a very good video for analyzing, to me it looks like the truck is on the line at the beginning of the video, therefore blocking the AP from seeing the right line; so it starts searching for a line. I wonder if it's just the size (therefore length) that causes the "lust", also, the road is turning right; further blocking the camera's vision.

 

[dow]

This is a very good video for analyzing, to me it looks like the truck is on the line at the beginning of the video, therefore blocking the AP from seeing the right line; so it starts searching for a line. I wonder if it's just the size (therefore length) that causes the "lust", also, the road is turning right; further blocking the camera's vision.

My guess is that this autopilot, with such a high investment in optically ID'ing dotted-line lane markings on the road, is still liable to mistake the dotted markings on the bottom edge of the side of the semi for a lane line (that is, potentially, further to the right, as extrapolated onto the ground plane in the AP's model of the world)... Especially when the truck is simultaneously blocking the actual lane line.

I have had a death grip on the wheel whenever any semi is in sight, since AP first dropped, after watching how this system behaves. If they did indeed make it even worse (haven't experienced this problem first hand in 8 yet), the first (next?) truck lust accident is not far off.

 

[Lex]

The video is also shot in a tunnel to add to the . The radar can go batsh!t in a tunnel due to the echoing (pun intended

No matter what I like to hold on tight in tunnels and always be on the wheel near semis.

 

[msnow]

The video is also shot in a tunnel. The radar can go batsh!t in a tunnel due to the echoing (pun intended I like to hold on tight in tunnels and always be on the wheel near semis.

There is no way in hell that I'd have AP active in that scenario. That's asking for trouble.

 

[PatFor]

I truly believe my car is trying to kill me. I have tried AP on highways, wide roads, fast, slow etc. Once engaged, besides the truck lust it moves all over the road. I seem to dive from one side of the road to the other. Is my car unusually dangerous or are others experiencing this as well? I have only had my car a week and a half and 8.0 for a week. Am I asking for too much?

These seems more treacherous than the USB issues.

 

[Lex]

Agreed. I'm dialing more wrong numbers now than I ever have because Voice Commands don't recognize my voice well enough. I thought this was a good idea Tesla had trying to immediately dial when there was only one choice (vs a single-item pick list like we had), but not so much after practical use.

Ugh, so I guess there's no alternative "lookup" voice command ? This would really be a disappointing omission.

 

[BertL]

Ugh, so I guess there's no alternative "lookup" voice command ? This would really be a disappointing omission.

You can always still use your finger to do the walking, searching, scrolling and selection on the 17". Just remember to keep your eyes on the road!

Seriously, another hands-free option would be to skip use of your MS Phone Call capability, and if you have say an iPhone, use Siri to place the call. Assuming you have your phone pre-paired, when it begins to dial, it will assume control of your 8.0 Media Player "Phone" (aka Bluetooth) connection and you can talk and hear through your MS mic and speakers without touching anything. I personally HATE doing workarounds for basics like that in my Tesla, as IMHO I just shouldn't have to if Tesla were listening to its Customers, but it is an option for you to consider ...no different than how some Owners that don't trust Tesla Nav or Traffic Rerouting, choose to use another mapping app or Waze on their smartphone to workaround what they consider Tesla Infotainment deficiencies.​

 

[Lex]

I cannot touch my phone in Ontario or I get demerit points and big fine so I would need to do as much with voice and on the touchscreen as possible.

I get very frustrated with missing voice commands and the idea of "simplifying" the voice commands seems oxymoronic to me except when it means adding more commands, especially when the one-touch sounds like it works so well (can't wait). I like to be optimistic but I get frustrated. I keep forgetting we're still not yet millions but probably no more than 150,000 total including X. (?)

 

[BertL]

I cannot touch my phone in Ontario or I get demerit points and big fine so I would need to do as much with voice and on the touchscreen as possible...

Understood. Technically we can't here in California either, but many still unfortunately do. The Siri option for placing calls I attempted to summarize is 100% hands-free. You can still use in-bound calls using normal MS capabilities hands-free as well.

 

[supratachophobia]

This post, and the several posts that followed, were all extremely informative. Thank you. My only concern is that they will be lost in the noise of this thread (over 150 pages in just a few weeks). I assumed, incorrectly, that a crash of the UI was a reboot of the MCU. I imagine that many other drivers will also make that assumption. This item should definitely be kept in a sticky of "Tips and tricks" or something. Again, thank you.

Perhaps Tesla could incorporate a similar scheduled auto-reboot system. When and how is a whole other discussion (making popcorn now).

I thought it was rebooted regularly if you had scheduled charging turned on?

 

[supratachophobia]

No. That is Tesla's modus operandi with most firmware bugs.

...but I have the philosophy being a Customer of Tesla's, no different than when I ran a very large technical support organization for many years, if Customers don't take the time to officially report their concerns, the problems either don't exist, or for certain the level of importance will be lost in the shuffle as a company works only on what they view as important. I may be one voice, but hopefully other Owners have or will also take the time to formally report problems that concern them in a business-like manner. I still hope one day Tesla will listen more directly to it's Customers, helping prioritize more of what they do, along with all the visionary stuff they continue to accomplish. I'm not ready to throw in the towel trying to get Tesla in my own little way to improve their Customer Service, which I know is so critical for long term success.

You can bet my voice has joined yours. So it's at least 2 voices.

 

[supratachophobia]

Yes, we all agree navigation is terrible, but that's not new in 8.0.

If you recall, it did get a ton better in 7.1 by taking away supercharger stops 5min or shorter / fixing the "go back to last charger before continuing on" thing.

 

[supratachophobia]

Here's a new "feature" that I just discovered in 8.0 that limits AP even further:

On undivided highways where AP limits TACC speed to the speed limit + 5mph, engaging Autosteer now only allows you to set TACC's max speed to 5mph over the limit.

In 7.1, you could set a higher speed (e.g. 50mph in a 25mph zone) and engaging Autosteer limited the car's speed to 30mph, but this didn't change the 50mph max speed. Then once the speed limit was lifted to a higher number, the car would automatically accelerate to the new limit (5mph over, or 50mph, whichever was lower).

This was useful in situations such as temporarily driving through a town with a low speed limit. However if you now engage full AP (TACC + autosteer) while the limit is low (say 25mph), the max speed TACC will get to is 30mph. Pulling the speed stall up won't allow you to go higher than 30.

So after the speed limit changes to a higher number, the car will only go up to 30mph even though the new limit might be much higher, such as 55mph.

I haven't tested the situation where AP is engaged with a higher speed and a lower limit is encountered to see if the max TACC speed automatically lowers to the new limit + 5mph, or stays at the original TACC speed. I would assume (hope) it doesn't change down, but as it is this new "feature" seems like another step in the lawyer-mandated CYA direction..

See, I looked at this different. I thought it was supposed to auto adjust to 5+ over the speed because on 7.1, it would constantly flash the "TACC limited" error message on the dash if the cruise was set to more than 5mph over.