First bad M3 review

[anticitizen13.7]

So it doesn't turn into a circle-jerk of massive proportions? I'd suggest some form of cult like religion if you want that.

There’s a difference between constructive criticism and being spiteful for financially motivated reasons.

I certainly don’t believe in the “Tesla can do no wrong” mentality that some people here have (and I have the ‘dislikes’ from them to prove it), but at the same time that is no excuse for others’ bad behavior.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I have to say I find this amusing... One guy says coolest car of 2017. Oh he's right! Great review, so honest!
The next guy gives a critical review based on fit and finish.
(and by the way we have all seen the early model 3 photos where the panels are a mess)
and he's a liar, its fake, unfair etc

c'mon

Doug (who did the "coolest car" review) is a pretty well respected independent car reviewer (car enthusiasts probably know him from when he was still working with Jalopnik) and has no problem telling it as it is. The Model 3 review is the most thorough that had come out so far from a professional reviewer, and for anyone considering a Model 3, it's definitely a very informative review.

And unlike other car manufacturer sponsored reviews, Tesla did not provide him with a vehicle, nor transportation, nor a hotel room, nor other perks (like a nice meal for example).

This report is just some remarks from an analyst who is setting a lower price target from Tesla (the motivation is obvious). Hardly the same thing.

 

[T34ME]

Even without this review I think most of us would have guessed the early ones are not going to be perfect in fit and finish.

And that is why the first releases are going to employees, family, and friends. These issues will be addressed and corrected when the cars get to us common folks. The first cars with assembly and software issues are first in line for the $7,500 tax credit, for their inconvenience. I am willing to wait and perhaps lose out on the tax credit, if it means a better car for me.

 

[FlyingKiwi]

There’s a difference between constructive criticism and being spiteful for financially motivated reasons.

I certainly don’t believe in the “Tesla can do no wrong” mentality that some people here have (and I have the ‘dislikes’ from them to prove it), but at the same time that is no excuse for others’ bad behavior.

I went back and read post #29, but I sure as heck don't see it as "vicious spiteful FUD", just a poster with a realistic explanation of what the analyst said and why he might have said it. Seems we see the world through very different glasses.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I went back and read post #29, but I sure as heck don't see it as "vicious spiteful FUD", just a poster with a realistic explanation of what the analyst said and why he might have said it. Seems we see the world through very different glasses.

I should have added more context. Forum member "mmd" has been spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) in the Investor's forum for months or even years, and does things to cause ill feelings generally. Any one of mmd's posts in isolation might seem innocuous, but in full context, spreading FUD and disharmony is the reason they are here.

For example, starting betting competitions (with the wager being giving up or keeping one's memebership in the forum for a time period): 2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion, a practice which the moderator later banned: 2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

And a revealing response when called out on past behavior: Degradation of the Community... Also, you can look at their profile and post history. Almost 100% of it is making negative comments about Tesla or spinning facts or events concerning Tesla in the most negative way possible.

 

[Chopr147]

What I like about Doug Demuro's review is: It's the first totally independent review that I can think of. No offense to Model 3 Owners Club (Did a good job) but they go into it with an "all things Tesla" knowledge and bias. This "review" tells me nothing I did not already know besides only complaining about fit & finish. Here at TMC we all know about the fit & finish issues for years now

 

[S3XY]

What I like about Doug Demuro's review is: It's the first totally independent review that I can think of. No offense to Model 3 Owners Club (Did a good job) but they go into it with an "all things Tesla" knowledge and bias. This "review" tells me nothing I did not already know besides only complaining about fit & finish. Here at TMC we all know about the fit & finish issues for years now

And yet here we are, all still anxiously waiting in line for our number to be called.

 

[EV-lutioin]

You can bet that anyone who isn't an ev nerd and buys a 100k+ car DOES care. The only reason Tesla gets away with stuff that seriously should not happen in that price category is because there is no one else to go to...

The moment Tesla's quasi monopoly for premium evs ends fit and finish will be very important since people will be able to compare.

Or it could be because most people are not OCD about gaps. I think you could make a strong arguement that the current Tesla owners are the most OCD demographic Tesla will ever have. Generally people just drive their cars and don't get out their Vernier caliber gauge to agonize over panel gaps. )

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Or it could be because most people are not OCD about gaps. I think you could make a strong arguement that the current Tesla owners are the most OCD demographic Tesla will ever have. Generally people just drive their cars and don't get out their Vernier caliber gauge to agonize over panel gaps. )

Quite the contrary. Tesla is still in this tiny little very forgiving enthusiast niche. Mass market with heavy competition is where the customer ocd really starts.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Quite the contrary. Tesla is still in this tiny little very forgiving enthusiast niche. Mass market with heavy competition is where the customer ocd really starts.

I disagree with this as a general proposition.

The enthusiast niche is typically the least forgiving customer segment in terms of manufacturing irregularities and defects. The tiny minority of people who bother to register with and participate in automotive forums like this one, are the people who scrutinize every panel gap and seat stitch.

The "masses" don't care. As long as the product looks reasonably nice, fits their personal image, and gets them from point A to point B with minimum inconvenience, they will buy it.

I see this every year with each new iPhone release. The people on the Macrumors.com forum scrutinize every little detail and complain about why x, y, or z design detail will alienate consumers. On iPhone launch day, every micrometer of the new iPhone's construction, finish, display color accuracy, viewing angle, button fitment, and seam tolerances are scrutinized by the Apple enthusiast community. Many people throw a fit and declare Apple's quality has declined.

And every year, despite this, Apple sells more iPhones. The public just doesn't care that much about the fine details.

 

[MotoEvCA]

This could be a review about any GM or Ford product built today and those companies have been in business for over 100 years.

While there may be fit and finish issues with Teslas, the drivetrains appear to be quite reliable and durable. Whenever you are buying components from suppliers you are going to have quality lapses that must be resolved.

Tesla will be fine if the show a little bit more discipline in their forecasting and communication efforts.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

I disagree with this as a general proposition.

The enthusiast niche is typically the least forgiving customer segment in terms of manufacturing irregularities and defects. The tiny minority of people who bother to register with and participate in automotive forums like this one, are the people who scrutinize every panel gap and seat stitch.

The "masses" don't care. As long as the product looks reasonably nice, fits their personal image, and gets them from point A to point B with minimum inconvenience, they will buy it.

I see this every year with each new iPhone release. The people on the Macrumors.com forum scrutinize every little detail and complain about why x, y, or z design detail will alienate consumers. On iPhone launch day, every micrometer of the new iPhone's construction, finish, display color accuracy, viewing angle, button fitment, and seam tolerances are scrutinized by the Apple enthusiast community. Many people throw a fit and declare Apple's quality has declined.

And every year, despite this, Apple sells more iPhones. The public just doesn't care that much about the fine details.

enthusiasts may point flaws out but in the end they will buy simply because there is no other option. "Still better than any ice simply because it's an ev".

And you don't seriously try to compare a phone you buy on a whim with a product that most people have to finance loan etc......

 

[anticitizen13.7]

enthusiasts may point flaws out but in the end they will buy simply because there is no other option. "Still better than any ice simply because it's an ev".

And you don't seriously try to compare a phone you buy on a whim with a product that most people have to finance loan etc......

For each year's new iPhone, the base price (for small screen and lowest storage) is now 699 USD. The iPhone 8 Plus tops out at 949 USD, and the iPhone X at 1149 USD.

Not a product that people purchase on a whim. Especially if you are buying 2 or more of them for family.

And most people actually do finance the purchase, albeit at 0% APR. For example: iPhone X – Price, Colors & Deals | Verizon Wireless, shows 29.16 USD/month 24 months with trading in old device, or 41.66 USD/month 24 months with no trade in. The vast majority of consumers do not pay the full upfront cost of an iPhone, and never have.

I will concede that people probably do put more thought into buying a car than a mobile phone.

However, I stand by my observation that outside of car enthusiast groups, few people in the general public scrutinize their vehicles in any great detail.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

For each year's new iPhone, the base price (for small screen and lowest storage) is now 699 USD. The iPhone 8 Plus tops out at 949 USD, and the iPhone X at 1149 USD.

Not a product that people purchase on a whim. Especially if you are buying 2 or more of them for family.

And most people actually do finance the purchase, albeit at 0% APR. For example: iPhone X – Price, Colors & Deals | Verizon Wireless, shows 29.16 USD/month 24 months with trading in old device, or 41.66 USD/month 24 months with no trade in. The vast majority of consumers do not pay the full upfront cost of an iPhone, and never have.

The comparison to a car that easily crosses the 60k range is still ridiculous! We can talk again when iphones get in the "second mortgage" region......seriously......

 

[anticitizen13.7]

The comparison to a car that easily crosses the 60k range is still ridiculous! We can talk again when iphones get in the "second mortgage" region......seriously......

The price is not the primary issue.

The issue is the scrutiny with which people examine these products.

In this manner, iPhones and cars are actually pretty similar. Spend any time at any Apple-oriented forum, and around the time of a new product launch there will be numerous threads about build quality and design. People subject iPhones and Macbooks with the same, if not greater, level of critical eye than cars. And the discussions over quality and design of Apple products can actually be much more contentious than what I've observed in car forums. Enthusiasts and the general public are very different crowds.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

The price is not the primary issue.

Yes it is!

Price and the competition that puts it in perspective.

 

[alseTrick]

How do you achieve poor panel fit if you use robots, unless they're all that way? Or is it possible this was a hand-built one they had at the event?

Almost DEFINITELY what happened and what I immediately thought was the case when I saw this article headline several days ago.

 

[idleuser]

Apple had the bend gate with the 6 and 6 plus and people went crazy because of the poor quality. Unaligned trims, poor panel gap and bad QA will eat into Tesla's market share. 2019/2020 isn't that far out and when the big players go all in. What will Tesla do? They still have fit and finish issues with the Model S and X.

 

[AUSinator]

Apple had the bend gate with the 6 and 6 plus and people went crazy because of the poor quality. Unaligned trims, poor panel gap and bad QA will eat into Tesla's market share. 2019/2020 isn't that far out and when the big players go all in. What will Tesla do? They still have fit and finish issues with the Model S and X.

What makes things worse is the Tesla model 3 comes with bend gate right out of the box. The iPhone you had too apply a huge amount of force for it to happen and bend gate didn't happen for 99.99 % of people so it wasn't a problem. I'm a Tesla fan boy but there are no excuses for a brand new misaligned trim and panel car as no other Auto maker does it on a consistent base. Except for some Chinese made cars of course but they don't count. For lots of us the model 3 is a expensive and emotional purchase and we want it to be perfect. As Somebody that wants Tesla to be successful it's important to criticise Tesla about this problem so they improve there game and hopefully that's just what the "partially right but negative investor" did.

 

[AustinPowers]

Or it could be because most people are not OCD about gaps. I think you could make a strong arguement that the current Tesla owners are the most OCD demographic Tesla will ever have. Generally people just drive their cars and don't get out their Vernier caliber gauge to agonize over panel gaps. )

From comments like these I can see why American cars are the way they are.
Germans must be an OCD obsessed people, because no one over here would NOT care about fit and finish issues on a car of 30K+ Euro, let alone 80K+ or 100K+ Euro. Hell, people over here get OCD fits over fit and finish issues on their TV sets, mobile phones - or wedding cakes, which cost a fraction of a Model 3