First bad M3 review

[bro1999]

Why is Tesla holding an investor only, no photos/video, private event? When tons of reservation holders would die to just see a 3 in person, inside and out?

 

[RayW]

March 2017 Sanford Bernstein initiate TSLA coverage with a target price of $250, they've been getting hammered since, and have been releasing a lot of these types of stories since last summer. That's all you need to know.

Besides, what Tesla doesn't have fit-and-finish issues? That why we like 'em.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I would hardly call that a “review”

The types of fitment issues mentioned are typically in components that are manually installed by workers on the line, at least at this point.

Also, just because robots are involved, a programmer still had to be involved to get the process correct, efficient and repeatable. The inclusion of robots itself do no magically make it perfect on its own.

If making things all with robots were easy, factories would be fully automated. Some were, but they ended up being too slow, and manufacturers shifted focus to automation assisted by humans, with a gradual trend towards increasing automation.

Of course, Musk being Musk, because machines can _theoretically_ build faster than humans, he sees automation as just another engineering challenge to be solved.

 

[bhzmark]

This isn't a car review. This is typical analyst nonsense. Analysts are notoriously brain dead -- groping for reasons to justify their arbitrary stock picks and price targets. They consistently make absurd inferences from irrelevant facts -- while trying to sound knowledgeable. No better than astrologers. Tony Sacconaghi is no exception.

 

[cwerdna]

"We had the opportunity to see and test drive the Model 3 at Tesla's showroom in Red Hook Brooklyn, NY"

The first sentence immediately gave me doubts on how legit this article is.

Tesla is taking big investors for a joy ride in the Model 3

 

[Barklikeadog]

All the fan boys here are not stupid. The earlier one went in detail about every aspect of the car, driving, interior, styling, trunk space and then also commented on the less than perfect fit and finish. It gave a full perspective.

This one completely ignored and not even mentioned about the main function of the car - driving dynamics - and went on and on about only one thing - supposedly misaligned panels which apparently most consumers won't even notice.

Don't insult our intelligence. We can read through the bias of the reporters.

Even without this review I think most of us would have guessed the early ones are not going to be perfect in fit and finish.

I test drove the S and thought it was a cool, unique car. I looked at the panels and tiny details... all nice.

Then I sat in the Model X... knew immediately that it was not for me. Just didn't look to be the same quality as the S.
I didn't have to drive it.

 

[S3XY]

March 2017 Sanford Bernstein initiate TSLA coverage with a target price of $250, they've been getting hammered since, and have been releasing a lot of these types of stories since last summer. That's all you need to know.

Besides, what Tesla doesn't have fit-and-finish issues? That why we like 'em.

It's like hand made items. Every one is unique.

 

[igotzzoom]

The FUD brigade is out in force against Tesla. This early in the production run, minor fit and finish issues are to be expected. Also, as much as I respect how bold and forward-looking Musk is, I've learned to temper his statements with a dash of pragmatic reality. Although he announced "Full Production" over the summer, let's face it, those models were pilot or at best "early" production. I would say we're still in the early production stage. Probably won't be in "full production" until probably December, if not January.

A lot of the analysts and the pro-establishment automotive media are fixated on the minor issues and hiccups. Musk is focused on the long-game. The only possible misstep from a strategic standpoint is that Tesla didn't launch the Model Y first, since the crossover market has literally caught fire, but I think that trend has taken everyone by surprise. By 2021, the conversation about Tesla will probably be a lot different. "Tesla: Can Anything Stop the Juggernaut?" "Tesla Proving EV Trend No Fluke" "Requiem for ICE: EVs Are Here to Stay"

 

[mmd]

The fit, finish and quality issues are important for the investors, the whole point of the analyst. I bet the cars Tesla sent for these insti investors were the best of the pack, better than the average M3s and less than average M3s rushed out before quarter ends. These may be the norm and expected by fans, but look how much it is costing Tesla. If the cars are sitting in the service centers for 3 months a year, how much are the repair bills? How much does it tarnish Tesla's image?

Model 3 ramp is supposed to be waaaay faster than Model S ramp. 20k Model 3 produced in March, all coming back to shop to be beaten up to shape won't be good. It's gonna need some huge service bays and thousands of more auto mechanics.
Should the investors be worried about a $1200M loss in Q1 and double that in Q2?

 

[AUSinator]

So your going to show your new car to investors. Some are for, unsure and some are against you. Tesla's goal is to sway more investors for you. Some investors will always be against you no matter what you do. investors often say things to manipulate the market in there favour. However misaligned panel gaps and quality issues are my biggest cons urn regarding my model 3 purchase. Tesla has no excuse for this anymore considering other Auto manufacturers build cars in the millions with 1 fifth of the price perfect ever time!!!!! Saying that it is part of Tesla's branding or saying this is something model x or s buyers just have to accept at the moment really annoys me.

 

[eye.surgeon]

There's an unhealthy amount of amnesia in this thread. Doesn't anyone remember the early MS and MX fit/finish issues? Why would these claims be in any way hard to believe. It's the reason I waited 2 years to order my MS.

As far as automation goes, there is myriad opportunity for QC variance in an automated process. Just the fit of the car on a jig as it moves down the line, if off by 1 mm, can cause multiple significant fit and finish issues.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

The FUD brigade is out in force against Tesla.

Ironically, mmd's post (#29) just after yours, is exactly the kind of vicious, spiteful FUD that we can expect, until Tesla starts delivering Model 3 to general public customers.

Why TMC continues to abide people like this, I do not understand.

 

[Electroman]

The fit, finish and quality issues are important for the investors, the whole point of the analyst

Believe me a huge part of the consumer population at that price level, won't care or wont even notice. They care about 10 different aspects all related to driving, passenger, cargo and entertainment than cosmetics like a minor mis-alignment in lower quarter panel. They are not shallow or have an agenda like some of these reporters who get fixated on one thing.

In the end the investors have to follow what the buyers in that price like. Their 'expert' opinion means nothing in the long term. And also in this day and age not all investors are fixated on just cosmetics. Panel alignment is just one - relatively less important compared to more critical ones like battery health, drive train longevity - indicator of the overall quality

 

[Electroman]

I test drove the S and thought it was a cool, unique car. I looked at the panels and tiny details... all nice.

But if you had taken a look at the one sitting right next to it, you would have noticed that the trunk wasnt perfectly aligned.

Then I sat in the Model X... knew immediately that it was not for me. Just didn't look to be the same quality as the S.
I didn't have to drive it.

You should be a genius.

 

[Barklikeadog]

But if you had taken a look at the one sitting right next to it, you would have noticed that the trunk wasnt perfectly aligned.



You should be a genius.

There wasn't another one to look at.

Unless I went into the lot and perused the 40 or so customer cars... but it would have been hard to see small issues through the dust.

 

[EV-lutioin]

I have an early Model X and a few panels don't match up perfectly, and.... wait for it.... I don't care.

 

[Jer2017]

"poor overall initial quality could undermine Tesla's brand" - Highly doubtful, just buy a new Model X or S and you can find a ton of fit and finish issues, it is part of the brand image at this point. Yes, I know first hand, I just bought an S and an X in August and both had and still have some issues (X has fan noise issue still in front defroster and S still has unaligned trim pieces).

I have a 2006 BMW 330i built in October 2006. On Day 1 I had to reinstall the arm rest as it was not connected on the Driver Side.
On day 1 I had to have the car placed on a truck as the Sun/Moon Roof would not close after it opened. BMW had me bring the car back several times. In the end they replaced it. Year 1 to Year 12 the steering wheel has a high pitch squeak in the spring and fall of the year when the temperature hits 68 degrees Fahrenheit. In the 10th year the automatic driver door handle quit. In year 4-5 the windshield washers quit. At the moment it has a new recall but no fix as of this date.

I have a reservation for a Tesla Model 3. BMW makes quality cars but Quality Control failed on my car which was special ordered and cost $45,000 in the year of 2005. The Dealer told me not to report any problems to the Government or discuss any problems with the Government but call them first and let them try to fix the problem.

Cars are machines made of rubber, glass, metal, plastic, leather, etc.
I have owned, an American Motors 4Dr sedan, General Motors vehicles [ Pontiac, Chevy, Camero], Ford Mercury , Mazda RX4, Honda Accord, BMW 4 Dr sedan, and ALL came with factory defects. Cars are designed by humans, built by humans, repaired by humans but now I am willing to give the ROBOTS a chance. To me cars are just tools for transportation. I am going to give Tesla a chance as they keep improving the product and I like the concept of cleaner air, water, land etc.

Lastly if this guy wanted a perfect car he should have purchased a donkey as he would have organic manure for the garden plus flies to eat the waste from his neighbors dogs not to exclude an animal to eat the grass around the house turning it back to manure for his organic garden . . . making it a full circle. Lastly, Donkeys make great "watch dogs" as they bray after dark when someone enters the property. Nice. ;-)

 

[FlyingKiwi]

Ironically, mmd's post (#29) just after yours, is exactly the kind of vicious, spiteful FUD that we can expect, until Tesla starts delivering Model 3 to general public customers.

Why TMC continues to abide people like this, I do not understand.

So it doesn't turn into a circle-jerk of massive proportions? I'd suggest some form of cult like religion if you want that.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

I have an early Model X and a few panels don't match up perfectly, and.... wait for it.... I don't care.

You can bet that anyone who isn't an ev nerd and buys a 100k+ car DOES care. The only reason Tesla gets away with stuff that seriously should not happen in that price category is because there is no one else to go to...

The moment Tesla's quasi monopoly for premium evs ends fit and finish will be very important since people will be able to compare.

 

[mmd]

They are not shallow or have an agenda like some of these reporters who get fixated on one thing.

To be clear, Toni Sacconaghi is neither a reporter, nor did he write a review for Model 3 buyers. He is an analyst and he wrote a note for his investors with this negative comment. His price target will get averaged out with other analysts. The quality of the "iphone" product of the company is a far better yardstick to use for 12 month price target than the 2030 and 2050 visions (some totally impossible ones ) and dreams, and other non-existent businesses used to value Tesla by the Tesla uber-bull analysts. He is also not on the bearish side; kinda neutral.

Sacconaghi reiterated his market perform rating and $265 price target on Tesla shares, representing 12.5 percent downside to Thursday's close.

For me, I see two implications of these issues:
1. Either Tesla has to slow down M3 ramp to fix these issues.
2. Or it will lose a lot of money fixing the issues with a fast ramp of lower quality M3.