First Ever NACS Adapter

[MP3Mike]

I presume V4 stations with active credit card readers (NFC only, from what I can tell) will handle everything through the charging post itself, no app required.

The only issue with that is how would Tesla authorize only vehicles from OEMs that have signed on to be a NACS partner? (Or who's agreement has started, like only Ford's to start with and then GM, etc. I think some aren't supposed to get access until sometime in 2025.)

It could be that Tesla won't care and will allow anyone with a CCS adapter to charge. Or maybe CCS charging at non-MagicDock locations can only be started via non-Tesla apps. (They won't show up in the "charge your non-Tesla" section of the Tesla app.)

 

[Supcom]

I thought it was already covered that non-Tesla owners could pay through the Tesla app on their phone. The real question is whether you can do so currently when using your own adapter and not the Magic Dock.

On a slightly separate note, I just saw that Ford announced that you would be able to plug and charge without having to use the Tesla app in the future.

EVGO supports plug and charge already if you have their app and set it up. That's the only one of the four third party networks I've used that seems to support it. It would be good if you could have a single app handle payment info for any network. At this point, I have accounts with four third party networks. I'm sure more are coming.

 

[davewill]

The only issue with that is how would Tesla authorize only vehicles from OEMs that have signed on to be a NACS partner? (Or who's agreement has started, like only Ford's to start with and then GM, etc. I think some aren't supposed to get access until sometime in 2025.)

It could be that Tesla won't care and will allow anyone with a CCS adapter to charge. Or maybe CCS charging at non-MagicDock locations can only be started via non-Tesla apps. (They won't show up in the "charge your non-Tesla" section of the Tesla app.)

My understanding is that ANY CCS vehicle owner can sign up for the Tesla app and use the MagicDock stations. I expect that to include all Superchargers (and destination charging for that matter) in the future. Maybe it works even now, I just haven't heard one way or the other.

The agreements signed by the automakers is for access to plug and charge style billing, and use of the NACS connector, not owner access to the Supercharger.

 

[MP3Mike]

EVGO supports plug and charge already if you have their app and set it up. That's the only one of the four third party networks I've used that seems to support it.

EVgo does not support Plug&Charge, the standard. They have their own "AutoCharge" feature to identify the vehicle and bill the correct EVgo account.

I think EA is the only CPO in the US that currently uses the actual Plug&Charge standard. (I think part of that is that not every CPO wants to pay the company currently providing the Plug&Charge services. I think SAE is working on setting up their own Plug&Charge service to compete.)

Of course, your vehicle has to support Plug&Charge, which most current EVs do not. (VW was supposed to add support for it in 2021 to their ID vehicles, but they just recently added support for it to 2023 vehicles. It is unknown when, or if, they will add support for the older vehicles.)

 

[MP3Mike]

My understanding is that ANY CCS vehicle owner can sign up for the Tesla app and use the MagicDock stations. I expect that to include all Superchargers (and destination charging for that matter) in the future. Maybe it works even now, I just haven't heard one way or the other.

The agreements signed by the automakers is for access to plug and charge style billing, and use of the NACS connector, not owner access to the Supercharger.

I disagree, I think the agreements are for access to non-MagicDock Supercharger sites, which won't ever show up in the Tesla app for non-Tesla vehicles. (Tesla made the NACS, now J3400, public, so anyone can use the connector without any agreement with Tesla, the only reason for an agreement is to get Supercharger access.)

But really almost all OEMs have signed up to be NACS partners, the only large one that hasn't is Stelantis. (And they don't have much of anything in terms of EVs available in the US.)

 

[ewoodrick]

I thought it was already covered that non-Tesla owners could pay through the Tesla app on their phone. The real question is whether you can do so currently when using your own adapter and not the Magic Dock.

On a slightly separate note, I just saw that Ford announced that you would be able to plug and charge without having to use the Tesla app in the future.

I think that some may have assumed it, but I don't think that it is a given. For example, I believe that Ford is expecting plug and charge. Or at minimum, thought the Ford app.

 

[E90alex]

It remains to be seen how third party Supercharging will be implemented. We should find out shortly as Ford and GM are supposedly going live this month. Although Ford still has no method to register to get an adapter currently.

It would make sense that it will only be enabled through the third party automakers app and plug and charge through the vehicle, otherwise there would be no way to limit or stagger the rollout and anyone with an adapter would be able to use Superchargers after it goes live. That’s not ideal.

Or there would have to be some authentication process through the Tesla app where one would have to verify ownership of an eligible non-Tesla before you can enable charging.

 

[pb2000]

Seems like a lot of work unless the superchargers can do plug to charge or VIN verification over the CCS protocol. If non-Tesla need to use the app, it seems easier to just have the manufactures only to sell the adapter to verified owners. If a few adapters end up changing hands and/or A2Z can adapt to market needs it shouldn't make that much difference, as I suspect building the actual adapters is going to be the bottleneck. Or at least that's what Tesla would have us believe based on how long it took them to make a damn CCS adapter.

 

[Genie]

When non- Teslas use the magic dock to charge I believe they choose the stall # on the app to activate charging and billing. Will that also activate the stall at a non-magic dock SC?

 

[MP3Mike]

When non- Teslas use the magic dock to charge I believe they choose the stall # on the app to activate charging and billing. Will that also activate the stall at a non-magic dock SC?

No, as the non-MagicDock sites don't even show up to select at all in the app.

 

[Acps110]

When non- Teslas use the magic dock to charge I believe they choose the stall # on the app to activate charging and billing. Will that also activate the stall at a non-magic dock SC?

No, because non Magic Dock Superchargers don’t show up in the “Charge my Non-Tesla” section of the app.

 

[fhteagle]

Didn't a couple of the charging companies announce policies that you were only allowed to use adapters supplied by the car manufacturer?

"Approved by", not "supplied by" is my understanding. UL standards are forthcoming, and an adapter manufacturer could get that UL and an OEM could say any adapter with this UL is approved, for example.

According to an interview on State of Charge, that seems to be an attempt at liability limiting by the CPOs when making such a statement, not something a CPO can actually enforce.

 

[DuncanM]

'State of Charge' looks at the Lectron NACS->CCS1 adapter:

 

[ahardfsu]

It remains to be seen how third party Supercharging will be implemented. We should find out shortly as Ford and GM are supposedly going live this month. Although Ford still has no method to register to get an adapter currently.

It would make sense that it will only be enabled through the third party automakers app and plug and charge through the vehicle, otherwise there would be no way to limit or stagger the rollout and anyone with an adapter would be able to use Superchargers after it goes live. That’s not ideal.

Or there would have to be some authentication process through the Tesla app where one would have to verify ownership of an eligible non-Tesla before you can enable charging.

So I've been following Ford's announcements regarding this bc I have a Mach E as my daily driver. Ford announced earlier this week or last week that Ford customers will be able to pay for Supercharger usage in the Ford app that Mach E and Lightning owners use to operate their vehicles and via the Charge Assistant app on the Mach E's app dashboard. In the press announcements don't indicate if we'll be able to pay with the Tesla app, which I have, but I suspect that we should be able to.

Ford also announced last week that Ford will send all of the current Ford EV owners a complementary adapter based on the VIN number. When Jim Farley posted this announcement to his Twitter page last week he showed a picture of a Mach E at a SC station charging with the adapter; he also showed a close up of the adapter. The news about the payment method was announced this week. We don't know when the adapters will be sent to customers except for the often used "soon" quote which is what Farley said.

 

[Rocky_H]

Ford announced earlier this week or last week that Ford customers will be able to pay for Supercharger usage in the Ford app that Mach E and Lightning owners use to operate their vehicles and via the Charge Assistant app on the Mach E's app dashboard.

This has been my guess/suspicion about what part of the agreement between the companies was doing. I think they were setting up the behind the scenes server communication so that user validation could be done in the Ford app ecosystem, and then pipe that validation signal over to the Tesla Supercharger infrastructure to turn on the stall.

 

[E90alex]

In the press announcements don't indicate if we'll be able to pay with the Tesla app, which I have, but I suspect that we should be able to.

The problem is paying with the Tesla app means they can no longer gatekeep who gets to charge unless there’s some validation process owners of other EVs have to go through. Even then it can get messy like what if someone finds a random Ford VIN online to enable charging and then go charge their Chevy bolt which AFAIK isn’t supposed to have supercharger access, only Ultium cars?

The only way they can really limit which brands are allowed to charge and control the rollout is to do it on the back end via the other automakers app or plug and charge systems.

 

[ahardfsu]

The problem is paying with the Tesla app means they can no longer gatekeep who gets to charge unless there’s some validation process owners of other EVs have to go through. Even then it can get messy like what if someone finds a random Ford VIN online to enable charging and then go charge their Chevy bolt which AFAIK isn’t supposed to have supercharger access, only Ultium cars?

The only way they can really limit which brands are allowed to charge and control the rollout is to do it on the back end via the other automakers app or plug and charge systems.

You could be right that validation will be done through Ford's payment servers. Some of us over on the Mach E board were thinking that the validation would be done via VIN number with Ford providing the VIN to Tesla's systems. I know that EvGo does that for their Auto Charge+, which is a variant of the Plug and Charge standard. I couldn't use the Auto Charge + until EvGo's system had my VIN number.

All GM vehicles will be able to charge at the V3 SCs, not just the Ultium vehicles. GM and Ford vehicles are supposed to have access this month person the Telsa person that spoke at some CO county's board meeting in Dec.

 

[miimura]

You could be right that validation will be done through Ford's payment servers. Some of us over on the Mach E board were thinking that the validation would be done via VIN number with Ford providing the VIN to Tesla's systems. I know that EvGo does that for their Auto Charge+, which is a variant of the Plug and Charge standard. I couldn't use the Auto Charge + until EvGo's system had my VIN number.

All GM vehicles will be able to charge at the V3 SCs, not just the Ultium vehicles. GM and Ford vehicles are supposed to have access this month person the Telsa person that spoke at some CO county's board meeting in Dec.

Technically speaking the EVgo AutoCharge+ uses the CCS hardware MAC Address (not the VIN) to identify the vehicle. Not all vehicles transmit the MAC Address, which is why it doesn't work on all CCS vehicles.

 

[kilpatds]

Not all vehicles transmit the MAC Address

uh ... Not all vehicles use static MAC addresses. A MAC is a requirement for talking on a few different network types, so if the network requires you to have a MAC, then everything will have a MAC. The fact that there's no protocol element for this is why AutoCharge works for old Hyundai's, for example. It requires nothing on the car side.

Except to not block it. Your cell phone has a feature to randomize the MAC on Wifi, so that it can't be used to track you across a wide area. So some car makers (VM Group) decided to apply that to the CCS protocol too. And if your car maker does that, it can't use AutoCharge because you have no static MAC.

 

[miimura]

Thank you for clarifying the technicality of the technicality.