Ford will add NACS to next gen EVs!

Next gen Ford EVs will include NACS port. Also will have a NACS to CCS adapter for existing Ford EVs and will be made compatible with Tesla Superchargers via software update.

Honestly never thought any other automaker would take up NACS so this is very surprising.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/05/25/ford-ev-customers-to-gain-access-to-12-000-tesla-superchargers--.html

Moderator note: The first couple pages of this thread are a merge of two different threads on the same topic.

 

[cdswm3]

But V3 isn't just about control signaling. It outputs up to 66% more power to an individual stall, which requires larger wires, new grid feed/transformer/etc... Also, V2 is wired one cabinet per two stalls, while V3 is one cabinet per 4 stalls.

Or are you just saying to make them CCS compatible, but leaving them at the current power levels? (Which is only ~75kW/stall if the site is full.) I just don't think there is any way that they would do that.

I think V2 sites will pretty much be left as-is while they are still have a lease and are functional, once equipment fails, or lease expires, the site will either be completely re-done with the then current Supercharger version, or will be abandoned. (Site hosts may not want to renew the lease, or may demand higher payments than Tesla wants to pay.)

Power needs are about the same. Each V3 cluster of 4 chargers can do a maximum of 350KW. V2 had a a maximum of about 150KW for every 2 chargers.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Power needs are about the same. Each V3 cluster of 4 chargers can do a maximum of 350KW. V2 had a a maximum of about 150KW for every 2 chargers.

The V3 cabinet can take 350kW, but they're on the same bus and the system can distribute power across the site. So a busy site will slow down, but it doesn't really matter where you park any more.

Unfortunate if you wanted to take time having a meal, but isn't that what V2 are for now?

 

[israndy]

Busy V2s or Urban SpCs, or CCS can usually be counted on to be slow or not ding you for continuing to shop, if you have an adapter of course

 

[Marktm250]

He's talking about V2L, not V2H. For V2L Ford provides separate outlets. They aren't like Hyundai where there is a J1772 adapter with an outlet on it.

What you mention is for V2H. Note, the charging station alone is not sufficient to support V2H (that station only provides 80A AC charging). You also need to install a home Integration kit, which includes an inverter. When the car is exporting power, it is done via DC, as per diagram attached in previous post, and converted to AC with the home inverter.

It's not using the OBC to deliver AC power from the car's charge port like Hyundai does with their J1772 adapter.

Likely this should be a separate subject line. However It's important as Ford seems to be solo on implementation of various V2L, V2H modes. I almost went with the Lightning as it advertised a possible future of V2G/V2H. What I interpreted of their offering was as follows:

• V2L - available via the various 120/240 VAC outlets in the truck - might be suitable for some V2H if the home ground and neutral lines are properly wired and proper safety disconnects are installed.
• V2H - Available via the DC ports of the CCS connector through the "Pro" charge controller -as stopcrazypp has pointed out. BTW, it appears this charge controller does the dual purpose of charging (only) via the J-1772 connection and both charging and discharging via the DC ports. A rather small SunRun inverter is needed to feed the home (with disconnect/safety functions). DC "charging" is not available in this mode, so it's not a traditional implementation of V2G/bidirectionality for home use that uses the vehicle battery to store excess energy from a solar/wind system while both on and off grid.
• V2G - "Might be available in the future". I believe this will likely require that "bidirectionality" be fully implemented via the DC ports and the vehicle battery is treated similar to any other DC based battery storage system. Can a AC coupled system be devised - maybe??
• dcbel and Enphase are claiming to have such a V2X system for home use available soon. I've been waiting for a couple of years on dcbel promises however.

 

[MP3Mike]

dcbel and Enphase are claiming to have such a V2X system for home use available soon. I've been waiting for a couple of years on dcbel promises however.

The main problem is that there currently isn't a standard for V2H/V2G from an EV. Charin has been working on adding V2X to the CCS standard for a long time. Ford got tired of waiting, gave up and did something proprietary.

NACS uses the CCS protocol, so as soon as the CCS standard supports V2X, NACS will support V2X. (NACS being the standard, not all NACS compatible vehicles.)

 

[Genie]

V2L is one of the must haves for my next vehicle.
I don’t see why anyone would want V2G- the grid would drain your car pretty quick, at whatever the capacity of the inverter is. If it somehow draws from the DC pins as Marktm mentioned it might be instantaneous.

 

[MP3Mike]

I don’t see why anyone would want V2G- the grid would drain your car pretty quick, at whatever the capacity of the inverter is.

Because there are times, in some locations, when the utility will pay you upwards of $5/kWh to support the grid. And then you can recharge at less than $0.20/kWh. (So, you could make ~$300 each time you discharge a good portion of your pack.)

 

[Marktm250]

During the big Texas freeze, I lost almost $2000 with Griddy (was incapacitated at the time). With 10kW solar and a 7kW inverter, calculating the irradiance available during that time, I'd made almost $2000 with a 60kWh Leaf battery via V2G. We did not have any power outages during - just $10+/kWh for many hours - the big rip-off.

 

[DblOSmith]

The main problem is that there currently isn't a standard for V2H/V2G from an EV. Charin has been working on adding V2X to the CCS standard for a long time. Ford got tired of waiting, gave up and did something proprietary.

NACS uses the CCS protocol, so as soon as the CCS standard supports V2X, NACS will support V2X. (NACS being the standard, not all NACS compatible vehicles.)

Whether it's NACS or V2X, it really seems like Charin is too slow and dropping the ball. IIRC, Tesla got tired of waiting also...

 

[Rocky_H]

The main problem is that there currently isn't a standard for V2H/V2G from an EV.

Well, this is something people don't want to hear, but CHAdeMO has had it for a very long time. But CHAdeMO is also the standard that has been dying off for quite a while.

 

[israndy]

Well, Franco took a long time to die as well

 

[Marktm250]

Well, this is something people don't want to hear, but CHAdeMO has had it for a very long time. But CHAdeMO is also the standard that has been dying off for quite a while.

The problem with the Nissan Leaf V2X via CHAdeMO is that there is no hardware/software available to effectively use the traction battery as part of a solar/wind based "microgrid". Selling my '21 SV Plus as a result.

 

[Rocky_H]

The problem with the Nissan Leaf V2X via CHAdeMO is that there is no hardware/software available to effectively use the traction battery as part of a solar/wind based "microgrid". Selling my '21 SV Plus as a result.

The solution certainly is available and continues to be in use in Japan. We just don't have it enabled here in the U.S.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The solution certainly is available and continues to be in use in Japan. We just don't have it enabled here in the U.S.

All we got outside of Japan was an endless stream of pilot projects. It was only last year that somebody actually made a product.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The solution certainly is available and continues to be in use in Japan. We just don't have it enabled here in the U.S.

I remember however that it was still implemented as a proprietary Nissan branded box, so it made no practical difference that the standard supported it natively. I'm not sure if that solution supported other non-Nissan CHAdeMO vehicles.