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First Impression: Not Happy
- Thread starter GFORCED
- Start date
PJFW8
Red Menace may hurt me
Your pictures show typical pitting that I have seen on sand storm damaged cars. Detailing won't come close to fixing this damage. The fog lights should polish out to lessen the issue. You need a new windshield and a repaint. This is ordinary wear on a 15 year old Arizona car. I'm sure Tesla will help. A decent dealer would fix this without question. CPO cars aren't perfect. You are asking for "clean", not perfect. I would still advise a gentle but persistent approach. The person you are talking to probably has very limited authority. You want an advocate not an enemy.
Agreed PJFW8. I will follow that advice. The fact that the car had the previous owners name on it still, may indicate it wasn't thoroughly checked.
To the others that have bought a new car and are indicating "people like this" have "limited means," please remember these forums are for like minded Tesla owners to share stories, tips, experiences, and knowledge with each other. Some of us will meet up at local events. We all should be one. Insulting a CPO buyer because you've purchased new will not help build a forum, but push owners away. Please be respectful to all as I will be of you. Thanks.
To the others that have bought a new car and are indicating "people like this" have "limited means," please remember these forums are for like minded Tesla owners to share stories, tips, experiences, and knowledge with each other. Some of us will meet up at local events. We all should be one. Insulting a CPO buyer because you've purchased new will not help build a forum, but push owners away. Please be respectful to all as I will be of you. Thanks.
I read this entire thread looking for how many miles are on the odometer of this CPO car. I did not see a number. Perhaps I missed it. The photos show what appear to be not unusual wear and tear for a used car but without knowing the mileage I can't come to a firm conclusion. And of course the mileage is not the only factor. If the car was kept outdoors compared to indoors that will effect its appearance. And as some have noted if the car did encounter a significant sandstorm that will be hard on the exterior. Whether or not Tesla should replace the windshield or repaint the car is a matter of opinion. The bottom line to me is that it is a used car. Everyone is going draw a different line as to what is acceptable to them and what is not, it's a judgement call.
eye.surgeon
Active Member
ecarfan, my insurance has paid a claim on this exact same condition as "damage" before. So, to expect a decent paint job from a CPO car is not out of the ordinary from any manufacturer. Odometer reading has no relevancy as CPO is the same for any mileage car. Read Kelly Blue Book on how cars condition are rated. A CPO car should be in Excellent Condition. The car I have is in Fair Condition.
How Kelley Blue Book Works
How Kelley Blue Book Works
- Excellent condition means that the vehicle looks new, is in excellent mechanical condition and needs no reconditioning. This vehicle has never had any paint or body work and is free of rust. The vehicle has a clean Title History and will pass a smog and safety inspection. The engine compartment is clean, with no fluid leaks and is free of any wear or visible defects. The vehicle also has complete and verifiable service records. Less than 5 percent of all used vehicles fall into this category.
- Good condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles fall into this category.
- Fair condition means that the vehicle has some mechanical or cosmetic defects and needs servicing but is still in reasonable running condition. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and/or interior need work performed by a professional. The tires may need to be replaced. There may be some repairable rust damage.
- Poor condition means that the vehicle has severe mechanical and/or cosmetic defects and is in poor running condition. The vehicle may have problems that cannot be readily fixed such as a damaged frame or a rusted-through body. A vehicle with a branded title (salvage, flood, etc.) or unsubstantiated mileage is considered "poor." A vehicle in poor condition may require an independent appraisal to determine its value.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
My car's got 56,000 miles on it in about a year and a half, is parked outside 100% of the time, and looks infinitely better than that. No offense meant, but that amount of damage would disqualify sale as a CPO at most high end stealerships.
Now, in fairness, if it was disclosed up front, *maybe* it would sneak by as a CPO at, say, a Toyota lot, but it's pushing it for sure.
CPO is not "used". It's CPO. Know the difference, as that's what you're paying a premium for.
Now, in fairness, if it was disclosed up front, *maybe* it would sneak by as a CPO at, say, a Toyota lot, but it's pushing it for sure.
CPO is not "used". It's CPO. Know the difference, as that's what you're paying a premium for.
Well spoken TaoJones. The cars Tesla chooses to offer in their CPO program should be in the top 5% in excellent condition. Thats why its Certified.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Thanks and agreed.
While all CPO cars are in fact not new and therefore used, not all used cars, by far, qualify as CPO.
In fact, my car is disqualified from being a CPO car. Too many miles. Which, when you think about it, is even more sad given the mantra that mileage shouldn't matter as much. While wear is wear (see lack of ESA past 100,000 miles), I bet there are 100,000 mile cars out there with fine cosmetics and suspensions in good condition. Would be interesting to see pictures of some of those 100,000 mile cars, but I digress.
I've toyed with the idea of GRVing my car back to Tesla and then buying it as a CPO for the 4-year warranty. Financial non-sense of that and the mileage disqualification aside, I really like the full-sized frunk and microwave combined with the AP and the fact that the aftermarket stuff is already done.
So back to self-ESAing I go. Not the worst thing in the world.
I think Tesla's CPO process involves two steps: wash car and sell car. The new owner then gets to complete the "certification" process via after the fact repairs (which you HOPE are covered under warranty). Good times.
I also think the review process occuring indoors also serves to make a lot of the defects much less visible. It's fine to do so for most of it (much more comfortable), but ideally final inspection would occur outdoors in the sun. In addition, the process doesn't actually include a test drive which would also help to discover a number of issues (or at least the obvious ones). Of course the latter are easier to address as after-the-fact repairs.
I picked up a used M5 from a Colorado dealer years ago. Windshield was very pitted and th first time I polished it with a rotary polisher, all of the touch-up up paint in the road rash came right out (not uncommon). I retouched up the road rash myself (Dr. Colorchip system has become my favorite) and had the windshield replaced (both on my own dime). However, the M5 windshield cost me around $425, whereas the Tesla windshield is $1600...that's painful!
I picked up a used M5 from a Colorado dealer years ago. Windshield was very pitted and th first time I polished it with a rotary polisher, all of the touch-up up paint in the road rash came right out (not uncommon). I retouched up the road rash myself (Dr. Colorchip system has become my favorite) and had the windshield replaced (both on my own dime). However, the M5 windshield cost me around $425, whereas the Tesla windshield is $1600...that's painful!
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Certified "Pre-Owned" is not used? Pre-Owned = used.
Regardless, the finish is not acceptable, and I hope Tesla does the right thing and makes it right.
And based on the discussion in this thread and others I have read on TMC, it's not clear to some people what that difference is. You say you "know the difference", so please explain what you think the difference is besides simply mileage as you state in your post upthread (and my request to the OP for the mileage of his CPO car continues to go unanswered). Also, please provide a Tesla Motors source that supports your explanation. If you can't provide a Tesla Motors source than you are simply offering your opinion.
I have searched online to try to find any statement from Tesla that defines what criteria the company uses to to determine is acceptable for the CPO cars they sell. I haven't found it yet, but recall reading somewhere some information that a TMC member received from Tesla regarding, for example, the maximum size of a stone chip allowed on a CPO car they were selling.
The CPO warranty doesn't seem to address the issue. See https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model-s-preowned-warranty.pdf
Electric700
Active Member
Gforced, I saw the pictures you posted of the pitting and am wondering if some of that can be buffed out with a special compound? There are products on the market that can help, and a reputable detailer may be able to clear up most of the issues. Hopefully Tesla can do this, or compensate you for the work along with other repairs such as for the leather. As you mentioned, at least it's hard to see the pitting unless you're up close.
Long term, you may want to wrap your car. I know some people here who have had their cars wrapped with XPEL: XPEL Protective Films - XPEL.
Long term, you may want to wrap your car. I know some people here who have had their cars wrapped with XPEL: XPEL Protective Films - XPEL.
Hi, @GFORCED,
I think you have hit on one of the problems with Tesla's CPO program. The pictures you see in their advertisements are all of cars that look great -- they are idealized -- you do NOT get to see actual pictures of the actual car. That means the first time you see the vehicle is when you are about to sign for it, which is a tense situation. It's different from the typical CPO or used car situation where you see the vehicle before you even think about going off to do any paperwork.
On the one hand, Tesla is trying to do something new in the CPO business: create a nation-wide pool of cars, all in theory brought up to their corporate standards for a CPO vehicle, which a customer can in theory rely upon to find the perfect match for their budget and desires. But on the other hand, IMHO they are raising the bar which in turn creates new issues such as the customer meeting his sand-pitted car for the first time.
I'm not going to repeat everyone else's comments about accepting such a vehicle, but I will say that I understand how in that situation you might feel like you would want to accept the car but also would hope Tesla would "make everything right". I'm afraid that even Tesla will try not to put more money into a CPO, though. :-(
I hope by the time I've read to the end of this thread that I'll discover a happy resolution to your problem.
Alan
I think you have hit on one of the problems with Tesla's CPO program. The pictures you see in their advertisements are all of cars that look great -- they are idealized -- you do NOT get to see actual pictures of the actual car. That means the first time you see the vehicle is when you are about to sign for it, which is a tense situation. It's different from the typical CPO or used car situation where you see the vehicle before you even think about going off to do any paperwork.
On the one hand, Tesla is trying to do something new in the CPO business: create a nation-wide pool of cars, all in theory brought up to their corporate standards for a CPO vehicle, which a customer can in theory rely upon to find the perfect match for their budget and desires. But on the other hand, IMHO they are raising the bar which in turn creates new issues such as the customer meeting his sand-pitted car for the first time.
I'm not going to repeat everyone else's comments about accepting such a vehicle, but I will say that I understand how in that situation you might feel like you would want to accept the car but also would hope Tesla would "make everything right". I'm afraid that even Tesla will try not to put more money into a CPO, though. :-(
I hope by the time I've read to the end of this thread that I'll discover a happy resolution to your problem.
Alan
Sand damage cannot be buffed out. It needs new paint. I have had this same situation before which is probably why I noticed it.
Ecarfan the mileage is 36K and the car is a 2014. I do agree with you that it states in the CPO guide that no paint scratch should be longer than 1/4 inch. But it is not specifying anything about sand damage. Any insurance company will repair sand/wind damage as an "act of God" and it is not that big of a deal. I'm just asking Tesla to make it right. I'm not going to respond to semantics about the difference about used or CPO. Had I walked into a used car lot to buy a used Tesla and pointed out sand damage, the salesman would either fix the damage or I wouldn't buy the car and leave.
In this case I expected a CPO reconditioned car that was at the reconditioning center for 4 days and upon delivery received a car with damaged paint.
Ecarfan the mileage is 36K and the car is a 2014. I do agree with you that it states in the CPO guide that no paint scratch should be longer than 1/4 inch. But it is not specifying anything about sand damage. Any insurance company will repair sand/wind damage as an "act of God" and it is not that big of a deal. I'm just asking Tesla to make it right. I'm not going to respond to semantics about the difference about used or CPO. Had I walked into a used car lot to buy a used Tesla and pointed out sand damage, the salesman would either fix the damage or I wouldn't buy the car and leave.
In this case I expected a CPO reconditioned car that was at the reconditioning center for 4 days and upon delivery received a car with damaged paint.
same cast of characters in here giving you a hard time....its not shocking.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
Not necessarily. I got pictures of the actual car I bought (which was in Washington DC with Virginia plates) and could see that it was in excellent condition. It helped that it was low mileage and less than two years old, something I paid a bit extra for. The other car I was considering didn't have pictures available so I went with the one that did. The first time I saw the car was when it was delivered by transport truck to the tiny town nearest my remote home. I had never even sat in a Tesla, much less driven one before. It was in immaculate, near new, condition.
Given the experiences of the OP and some others, if I had it to do over again and was buying a CPO with significant miles on it, I think I'd ask to see the car before taking delivery. But refusing it would mean losing my deposit and the $1500 transport fee (if it came from a long way away) so it is still a gamble unless they could come up with a suitable replacement. At the very least, I'd ask for pictures; it shouldn't be that hard for the Tesla people to arrange.
Good points dgpcolorado. Also good point The Q. I've been on these forums as a car enthusiast for over a decade. Always people like that. I enjoy meeting them at car shows as they seem to be much more polite in person. ;-)
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