Fisker Karma

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Live and Let Live. That's my take on Fisker in general and in the context of Tesla. They do indeed have their place in the universe.

If they can focus on the function a bit more and stop being obsessed with form alone, they can aspire to be as good as Tesla one day.

 

[4sevens.com]

Here are some stats....

over 1000 karma's on the road
239 were recalled less than a year ago with an electrical issue can could have caused a fire - thats 20%+ of all karmas sold!

2 incidences of fire in 4 months - where the car burned down to smoldering ashes

There is a 100% recall on the karmas because of this - that means all 1000 karmas could have caught fire!

"Fisker has decided to issue a full-on recall of the unit and it affects all Karmas on the road. "

Well... I found something else... dhybridcars.org also erroneously cites this picture
Fisker Karma | Burns | Price | Review | Battery | Fire | Hybrid Car review | Pricing | Specs | News - DHybridCars.org
Fisker Statement Concerning the Fisker Karma Fire: Fisker Karma fire img-4 – Most Fuel Efficient Cars | Hybrid Cars | Electric Cars 2012

- - - Updated - - -

Live and Let Live. That's my take on Fisker in general and in the context of Tesla. They do indeed have their place in the universe.

If they can focus on the function a bit more and stop being obsessed with form alone, they can aspire to be as good as Tesla one day.

Especially with new companies - I think you not only have to look at the product - you have to look at the company and it's business plan. Tesla has a factory that can be quickly scaled up many times over. They've partner with critical automotive and technology companies like Panasonic, Toyota, and Mercedes. They're on their second car with three more coming (X, GenIII, and a sports exotic). They're forward looking with vision (supercharge network, sustainable and energy positive). They're building out retail stores as well as service centers. Elon has already proven himself a success with Paypal (yuck) and Space X. Theres lots to bet on.

As a contrast Fiskar? Yeah he was with Tesla early on and left with ideas thinking he can do what Tesla already as done. One is a successful businessman. The other a wannabe who is wooing rich people with an inferior product with an inferior business plan.
If Fiskar survives, they will always be nipping at the heels of Tesla.

 

[vfx]

All cars get recalled.

Including Teslas.

While I doubt Fisker's future. (How many $100,000 buyers are out there. Seriously. How many?) I want them to succeed for the greater EV good.

Tesla
Ferrari
Maserati

All of them with a Fisker comparable 4ish seating cars do not have sales more than 5 thousand cars a year. And Ferrari has a buyer base of several hundred that automatically buy any new model the company makes.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Here are some stats....

over 1000 karma's on the road
239 were recalled less than a year ago with an electrical issue can could have caused a fire - thats 20%+ of all karmas sold!

2 incidences of fire in 4 months - where the car burned down to smoldering ashes

There is a 100% recall on the karmas because of this - that means all 1000 karmas could have caught fire!

"Fisker has decided to issue a full-on recall of the unit and it affects all Karmas on the road. "

I don't think it's fair to use statistics like that without mentioning the sample size (which is really small, for large automakers a single model will be in the 100k+ range in volume). The small sample size makes it so statistically, the effects of one car is exaggerated. I'm not a statistician, but I think the effects of that is seen in standard deviation and margin of error.

Plus referring to the percentage of Karmas recalled isn't that significant since it's only one model year and a single model.

For the similar fires, like the Wrangle fire, they recalled the entire 2010 model year, so it's standard procedure in a recall:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/mone...19/fire-risk-recall-jeep-wranglers/55083364/1
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...probe-into-jeep-wrangler-fires/1#.UGygNZjA-h0

Well... I found something else... dhybridcars.org also erroneously cites this picture
Fisker Karma | Burns | Price | Review | Battery | Fire | Hybrid Car review | Pricing | Specs | News - DHybridCars.org
Fisker Statement Concerning the Fisker Karma Fire: Fisker Karma fire img-4 – Most Fuel Efficient Cars | Hybrid Cars | Electric Cars 2012

If the picture is wrong, it's wrong. Doesn't matter how many people cites it.

Personally, I feel any plug-in advocate should avoid spreading the same FUD that anti-plug-in and anti-EV people like to spread. Both fire issues for the Fisker and the Volt were overblown and they have been addressed already with recalls, so I think it's time we put it behind us.

 

[Doug_G]

"Fisker has decided to issue a full-on recall of the unit and it affects all Karmas on the road. "

Right, but that doesn't mean all Karmas are going to burn. Incidentally the Tesla Roadster 2.0 had a voluntary fix done because they discovered a small risk that the 12V backup battery could cause a fire. The odds were low and the fix was just to protect a couple of wires, but still... this sort of thing can happen to any car model. Many ICE cars from the big manufacturers have had problems with catching on fire.

Personally I have major doubts that Fisker will be successful. Their current product is bold but disappointing as a "green car". Fluff like built-in solar panels makes you wonder if the green angle was all about getting funding rather than doing something for sustainability and the environment.

But let's not go overboard here - sure the fires look really bad but that isn't what's going to make or break the company. The last thing we need to do is harp on about this stuff. The Volt was unfairly tarnished with that brush to the great detriment of all EVs. Enough of that!

Fisker simply needs to produce a compelling product. The Atlantic might be that product. Hard to know at this point. The Karma is "cool" but it certainly is not compelling. Unfortunately.

 

[mikevbf]

The ill-will is just misplaced. At least Mr Fisker is dedicated to responsible luxury, to a realistic paradigm at should compete nicely - someday - with pure EVs. Having over an hour and a half this morning to sit at a table with Henrik Fisker was...sublime. No other design master is CEO of his company (go ahead, correct me. Point stands). We discussed: the Vantage , DB8, BMW 7 series; many amazing cars and we discussed the Chrysler minivan, his childhood, the first Masarati he ever saw, Pixar, what it was like to be up at night drawing an Aston Martin, the moment he sketched the Karma for the first time, Tesla, pure EV cars, Steve Jobs, Boston, the coffee, the Aggressor, dual electric motors, Karma fires, The Atlantic, the shortcomings of Supercharge, REEV powertrains, and Henry Thoreau. Not a bad morning. And then I drove the car around Boston.

But I have three kids and it only seats four. That was a unexpected. Good breakfast though. Had an idea: turn the battery parallel to the road and place it on the bottom of the car, freeing up space for an opportunity console and a fifth passenger. Think it would ever catch on? :wink:

I wish nothing but the very best for Mr Fisker and the company. Making their own dent in the universe. And driving the Batmobile today was phenomenal. Hope to post pics sometime soon.

Cool that you got a conversation with Mr Fisker himself. Maybe you should have titled your post "MR FISKER ON FIRE at the breakfast table" with a stock photo of Michael Jackson to get more responses.

 

[7racer]

here is a famous Fisker getting towed...but not from any mechanical fault..just fault of the d******* owner
LOL
Justin Biebers Chrome Car -- TOWED During Concert | TMZ.com

 

[FiskerAtlantic]

I know we may have our differences, but we are clearly in this fight together...

Mitt calling Tesla and Fisker losers tonight is just crap. You guys are a successful 3B dollar company and Fisker is going to surpass 2k sales this month with an IPO in sight next year.

Differences aside....Good luck to us both.

Here are some stats....

over 1000 karma's on the road
239 were recalled less than a year ago with an electrical issue can could have caused a fire - thats 20%+ of all karmas sold!

2 incidences of fire in 4 months - where the car burned down to smoldering ashes

There is a 100% recall on the karmas because of this - that means all 1000 karmas could have caught fire!

"Fisker has decided to issue a full-on recall of the unit and it affects all Karmas on the road. "

Well... I found something else... dhybridcars.org also erroneously cites this picture
Fisker Karma | Burns | Price | Review | Battery | Fire | Hybrid Car review | Pricing | Specs | News - DHybridCars.org
Fisker Statement Concerning the Fisker Karma Fire: Fisker Karma fire img-4 – Most Fuel Efficient Cars | Hybrid Cars | Electric Cars 2012

- - - Updated - - -

Especially with new companies - I think you not only have to look at the product - you have to look at the company and it's business plan. Tesla has a factory that can be quickly scaled up many times over. They've partner with critical automotive and technology companies like Panasonic, Toyota, and Mercedes. They're on their second car with three more coming (X, GenIII, and a sports exotic). They're forward looking with vision (supercharge network, sustainable and energy positive). They're building out retail stores as well as service centers. Elon has already proven himself a success with Paypal (yuck) and Space X. Theres lots to bet on.

As a contrast Fiskar? Yeah he was with Tesla early on and left with ideas thinking he can do what Tesla already as done. One is a successful businessman. The other a wannabe who is wooing rich people with an inferior product with an inferior business plan.
If Fiskar survives, they will always be nipping at the heels of Tesla.

 

[ModelX]

I agree! Best luck to both!

 

[dmckinstry]

Mitt calling Tesla and Fisker losers tonight is just crap. You guys are a successful 3B dollar company and Fisker is going to surpass 2k sales this month with an IPO in sight next year.

Differences aside....Good luck to us both.

Right on. I hope all EV types, including the range extended vehicles succeed.

 

[strider]

All I have to say is, those in glass houses..... Let's cut out the negativity. Businesses succeed and fail all the time - it happens. For now the market is plenty big for Fisker and Tesla to each do their thing. When there's saturation then we can move to sniping at each other but for now let people drive the cars and choose the one that best fits their lifestyle.

 

[SoCalGuy]

Road and Track did an extended range test (880 miles) for the Fisker Karma. Good read:

http://resources.fiskerautomotive.com/static/downloads/en-us/pdf/2012/karma/2012_Fisker_Karma_RoadandTrackArticle.pdf

 

[vfx]

"smoke from my ears"

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

All I have to say is, those in glass houses..... Let's cut out the negativity. Businesses succeed and fail all the time - it happens. For now the market is plenty big for Fisker and Tesla to each do their thing. When there's saturation then we can move to sniping at each other but for now let people drive the cars and choose the one that best fits their lifestyle.

I drive a Fisker Karma and have a reservation for a European Model S Signature. So also in my world the two companies can live together.

Fisker's approach is that an electric car does not have to be an ugly car (as did the Roadster already show). There are too many ugly designs out there (Leaf, Renault's EVs, Coda, iMiev) that do not appeal to many people and Henrik Fisker is showing that it doesn't have to be like that. Maybe some people buy his car for the wrong reasons, but it still is an important car because it appeals to many people and generates a lot of attention for electring driving.

And it can definitely be a green car. Even though I drive over 80 miles a day I am getting 200 mpg, which is the same as 10 Porsche Panamera's. My kWh-usage per mile is high, but it comes from solar panels (no, not the one on the roof of the car). So this car does make a difference, when driven and charged the correct way.

 

[dpeilow]

Even though I drive over 80 miles a day I am getting 200 mpg

How many recharges do you do in a day?

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

How many recharges do you do in a day?

One when I get at the office, and one when I get back home. So 2 charges per 24 hours.

 

[FiskerAtlantic]

Soon AONE will be offer a swap/buyback program with Fisker and others on their current batteries. I hear the new Nano EXT will get over 200+ miles per charge. I'm guessing we are a year or so away from that happening. The Wanxiang transaction should be complete in a few weeks.

 

[AnOutsider]

Soon AONE will be offer a swap/buyback program with Fisker and others on their current batteries. I hear the new Nano EXT will get over 200+ miles per charge. I'm guessing we are a year or so away from that happening. The Wanxiang transaction should be complete in a few weeks.

That would be impressive. What would it cost? Are they going to keep the ICE?

 

[rabar10]

Soon AONE will be offer a swap/buyback program with Fisker and others on their current batteries. I hear the new Nano EXT will get over 200+ miles per charge. I'm guessing we are a year or so away from that happening. The Wanxiang transaction should be complete in a few weeks.

Care to identify or cite your source?

 

[FiskerAtlantic]

That would be impressive. What would it cost? Are they going to keep the ICE?

I really don't know what the cost will be. I'm pretty sure the ICE stays, however could be BMW sourced in a few years.