I wonder what happened to those 3000 preorders they had in mid-2011, since last I heard they had only delivered around 1500.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Fisker Karma
- Thread starter vfx
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Electric Vehicles fail Fisker karma
I wonder what happened to those 3000 preorders they had in mid-2011, since last I heard they had only delivered around 1500.
ipdamages
Roadster Sport 835
i was one of those 3,000. and after being on the waitlist for 3 years i finally got to test drive the car in july of 2011. when i did there were a few issues that caused me to get my deposit back. 1) the car was loud when the ICE was running (in "sport" mode), 2) it doesn't qualify for a green HOV lane sticker, and 3) the car was just too big for me. i understand that a lot of people had the same complaint. it is 195.7" by 78.1". i prefer a smaller and more nimble car, and a car that i can park in public (e.g., in a mall parking lot). the rear window is also dinky and very difficult to see out of (too high). lots of blind spots, like, say, the car behind you! or that kid on the big wheel! by comparison, my 2008 BMW 3-series was 181" by 70", and the roadster is tiny. of course, the model S is almost the same size as the karma, at 195.9" by 77.3". and that is why i own and love my roadster, but i'm not a candidate for a model S or model X.
i have a 2009 audi a4 avant that works just fine for those situations in which i need to go to home depot or take my whole family somewhere. it is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, but in my area there are way too many moms driving behemoth ICE SUVs to take chloe and her violin to elementary school. and every time you drive down the street and there is an SUV going in the opposite direction you have the most absurd dance of "i have an SUV, which means two cars can't fit on the road, so i'll pull over here and wait for you to pass by, and then i can get through." and you never know whether the ford expedition that is barreling down the road is going to observe proper alternating etiquette, or maybe they're in a hurry to get caleb to school too.
so while a model S or X cures the ICE problem, it still is way more car than this family of four needs (five, if you include the cat). but i think the fisker atlantic is beautiful (though i'm not convinced it will ever happen, and if it does, i'm not sure it will have more than a 20-mile all electric range). but if the gen 3 has styling like the atlantic, i'm definitely going to be an owner. my fear is that it isn't, though, and instead it will be more leaf or prius or insight than atlantic or M3.
similarly, and i know i'm in the minority here, to me the model S looks a lot like a toyota avalon 2013-Toyota-Avalon-Hybrid-XLE-side-in-motion.jpg Photo on November 16, 2012 #26951 from Motor Trend or a ford fusion energi 2013 Ford Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid priced at $39,495 | Digital Trends. everything else about the model S is IMO superior to the the karma, but the styling of the S doesn't get my juices flowing. by comparison, the karma is never going to be mistaken for the avalon or fusion. maybe a maserati gran turismo, or aston martin vantage/DB9, or rollie fingers.
my $0.02...
- chris
i have a 2009 audi a4 avant that works just fine for those situations in which i need to go to home depot or take my whole family somewhere. it is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, but in my area there are way too many moms driving behemoth ICE SUVs to take chloe and her violin to elementary school. and every time you drive down the street and there is an SUV going in the opposite direction you have the most absurd dance of "i have an SUV, which means two cars can't fit on the road, so i'll pull over here and wait for you to pass by, and then i can get through." and you never know whether the ford expedition that is barreling down the road is going to observe proper alternating etiquette, or maybe they're in a hurry to get caleb to school too.
so while a model S or X cures the ICE problem, it still is way more car than this family of four needs (five, if you include the cat). but i think the fisker atlantic is beautiful (though i'm not convinced it will ever happen, and if it does, i'm not sure it will have more than a 20-mile all electric range). but if the gen 3 has styling like the atlantic, i'm definitely going to be an owner. my fear is that it isn't, though, and instead it will be more leaf or prius or insight than atlantic or M3.
similarly, and i know i'm in the minority here, to me the model S looks a lot like a toyota avalon 2013-Toyota-Avalon-Hybrid-XLE-side-in-motion.jpg Photo on November 16, 2012 #26951 from Motor Trend or a ford fusion energi 2013 Ford Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid priced at $39,495 | Digital Trends. everything else about the model S is IMO superior to the the karma, but the styling of the S doesn't get my juices flowing. by comparison, the karma is never going to be mistaken for the avalon or fusion. maybe a maserati gran turismo, or aston martin vantage/DB9, or rollie fingers.
my $0.02...
- chris
The problem with the Karma (and the Atlantic) is that it's designed like a sports car, and comes with all the functionality pitfalls associated with that. It's beautiful, but until Henrik can design a good-looking car that isn't classified as a subcompact and has more rear cargo space than the Model S has in the frunk I'm finding it difficult to be impressed.
smorgasbord
Active Member
I think Model S is too wide - and the Karma is even wider! Scrape city, Parking lot ding magnets.
Of course, according to C&D, Karma has better skipad numbers (0.89) than Model S (0.86), so maybe the wider stance has an advantage..f
ipdamages, I was test drive no. 2 at Fisker OC when the roadshow happened last year. Thankfully the ICE is not nearly as loud in the production cars as it was in the roadshow cars. You don't hear that weird lawnmower/vacuum sound of the turbo that was so prominent during the roadshow. Fisker solved (or at least largely mitigated) this issue with Muffler 2.0 and reducing RPMs and max output of the ICE. This also meant less power, so that was part of the reason the official 0-60 times went from 5.8s to 5.9 and now the current 6.3s (although it tests around 5.9/6.0s in the auto mags). Also, on rear/side visibility, it is actually pretty good - haven't had any issues with it, and that is surprising for a car this large and low. I will say what I have yet to master after 11 months is knowing where my front bumper ends.
Folks here know my thoughts on the S styling - its Mazda and new Jag, which doesn't inspire me. If the S looked like the Karma, it would be killer - with the only downside being the lack of a range extender (which is a BIG deal for me).
Folks here know my thoughts on the S styling - its Mazda and new Jag, which doesn't inspire me. If the S looked like the Karma, it would be killer - with the only downside being the lack of a range extender (which is a BIG deal for me).
Jaff
Active Member
Of course, looks are subjective SoCal and "beauty is in the eye" ... I'm very pleased with the classy look of the S and glad it looks nothing like the Karma...the fact that the S is all electric is a win-win.
The Fisker is really good looking but so is the Model S. This is all subjective of course. Got to sit in a Karma the other day and it is really cramped in the driver's seat. I felt like I had more room in the Roadster but that was just a few seconds of sitting in the driver's so just an initial impression. Also not a fan of the Tron sound as it drives away.
I actually like the cockpit feel in the Karma driver's seat. I like the Roadster too, but you end up rubbing shoulders with the passenger.
I will confirm this I sat in the drivers seat (Karma) and felt cramped. I even found the same sitting in the back seat of the Karma also. Having driven the Roadster I will agree there is more room in the Roadster. There is definitely more room in the Model S. I have driven the S with no cramping issues. I am 6 foot plus tall and had no problem front or back.
I've always felt the Karma's interior to be cockpit/pod like, which I find very agreeable for a sporty sedan. My property manager who is 6'1 and one of my best friends who's 6'2 have sat in the car and found the front seats to be very comfortable while the back seats were "fine for a short ride" but probably not sustainable for a longer hour plus drive mostly due to the headroom and the lack of undertuck for feet in the rear seats (i.e. underneath the front seats) - my nieces who are 12 and 17 find the backseats plenty comfortable (granted they are only 5'1 and 5'5).
Henrik looks rather uncomfortable at the end of this vid when he mentions <gulp> Delaware.
Here's a recent and relatively comprehensive article on the Delaware perspective.
Delaware to Fisker: Give us jobs or a refund | The News Journal | delawareonline.com
Here's a recent and relatively comprehensive article on the Delaware perspective.
Delaware to Fisker: Give us jobs or a refund | The News Journal | delawareonline.com
Last edited by a moderator:
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
Yep, he looks uncomfortable mentioning the *gulp* Delaware plant and future Atlantic model production...
On another note, a very in depth review of the Karma was done by a guy who does very detailed reviews. Somebody on the East Coast (North Carolina) needs to get this guy a Model S to review...
In-depth Fisker Karma review
On another note, a very in depth review of the Karma was done by a guy who does very detailed reviews. Somebody on the East Coast (North Carolina) needs to get this guy a Model S to review...
In-depth Fisker Karma review
I've probably said this before elsewhere, but seems to me since the Atlantic is obviously a long ways off, the best thing Fisker could do in the near future would be to come out with a Karma 2.0 with an updated drivetrain.
I'm not really sure what Fisker corporate is doing these days since they haven't been manufacturing cars for half a year. Feels like they're just spinning their wheels. But hopefully they've been working on a better drivetrain that is packaged better and might actually meet their originally advertised performance goals. Supposedly they have a new drivetrain in the works for the Atlantic that is to eventually make its way into the Karma. Well I say concentrate their efforts on that and put it in a new model year Karma instead of waiting for the Atlantic. Also explore other battery suppliers instead of being dependent on the fate of A123.
Aside from the company woes, the Karma suffers from the continuing stigma of the early bad reviews due to all the glitches and being released before it was ready. But with a new and improved drivetrain they could relaunch the Karma as the car it was supposed to be. I think that makes more sense than waiting for the cash to build the Atlantic. If they can't build a new drivetrain, the Atlantic will never get off the ground anyhow.
I'm not really sure what Fisker corporate is doing these days since they haven't been manufacturing cars for half a year. Feels like they're just spinning their wheels. But hopefully they've been working on a better drivetrain that is packaged better and might actually meet their originally advertised performance goals. Supposedly they have a new drivetrain in the works for the Atlantic that is to eventually make its way into the Karma. Well I say concentrate their efforts on that and put it in a new model year Karma instead of waiting for the Atlantic. Also explore other battery suppliers instead of being dependent on the fate of A123.
Aside from the company woes, the Karma suffers from the continuing stigma of the early bad reviews due to all the glitches and being released before it was ready. But with a new and improved drivetrain they could relaunch the Karma as the car it was supposed to be. I think that makes more sense than waiting for the cash to build the Atlantic. If they can't build a new drivetrain, the Atlantic will never get off the ground anyhow.
Granted, I have never driven a Karma before but a car with 950+lb/ft of torque should be a plain monster to drive.
The available power from the batteries pretty severely limits the performance. 0-60 in 6.3s and that's with the generator assisting. In pure EV mode I think it's somewhere around the 8 second mark.
Torque makes a huge difference in the low end, where the Karma should do pretty well.
Similar threads
