Free public charging etiquette?

[Matt125]

The less said about PHEVs the better - utter waste of time, and people who drive them think they have a real electric car! It brings out the worst in me when someone mentions PHEVs!

As for other EVs using free chargers - let them, as long as they are actually using them! Normal etiquette applies. Usually I see cars like Leafs and Zoes charging from them - cars that can't get a rapid charge elsewhere, and they might only have street parking at home so that's their normal charge spot. I never need to use them as I do my normal charge at home, and if I am travelling somewhere, there's always a supercharger in range.

 

[qwickshot]

The Bicester village chargers are an obvious example of free chargers being a problem.

Firstly, they are the wrong chargers. They’ve installed about 18 22kw points across the site, I think 4 are for valet parking only (which is fine). We we know, very few cars can actually take 22kw, instead they could have installed 54 7kw chargers for the same power capacity.

Given the nature of the location and that you’ll probably be there for quite a few hours, not having 11/22kw isn’t a huge issue.

I try to use them when I am there but only because my SR+ will use 50% to get there.
As it stands, while they are free, I’ll charge the car back up to full even though I don’t need anything like that much to get home. I think I had over 30kwh last time.

I’d happily pay for the power, I mean I’ll be stopping at a rapid if I don’t, if it was paid electric, I’d only use it for an hour and then move the car leaving it free for someone else.

I’ve pretty much summed up the issue with free chargers, basically people use them because they are free and not because they actually need to use them. I’d bet hardly anyone would use Tesco chargers if they were not free (I wouldn’t unless I was away from home), and that fine because they will be available for people that actually need them (E.g. those on holiday or at a relatives etc).

That brings me onto my journey tonight, I’m heading off to see a relative 220 miles away. There is a charger in their village, but it’s free and in a free car park and surrounded by houses. Wish me luck…

 

[Durzel]

Unfortunately short of ANPR, training and staff to enforce it - hybrids using chargepoints completely unnecessarily are here to stay.

PHEVs can stlil drive if they have no charge, BEVs can't, so it gets my goat when I spot a giant Range Rover PHEV or equivalent charging.

Bah humbug.

 

[Durzel]

The Bicester village chargers are an obvious example of free chargers being a problem.

Firstly, they are the wrong chargers. They’ve installed about 18 22kw points across the site, I think 4 are for valet parking only (which is fine). We we know, very few cars can actually take 22kw, instead they could have installed 54 7kw chargers for the same power capacity.

Given the nature of the location and that you’ll probably be there for quite a few hours, not having 11/22kw isn’t a huge issue.

...

I agree with this. Perhaps not a popular opinion but I don't see why these places should have rapid charging (unless paid). As you say, you could have 54 7kw chargers for the same power utlisation, and few cars see the full benefit of 22kW AC charging.

Same with Tesco 7kWs.. people say there's no point plugging in. It's free? If Tesco offered to pour a bit of petrol/diesel into your car, completely free of charge, even if it was just enough to cover the journey you made - or a bit extra - would you say "no thanks, on principal I'm going to refuse because you should be giving me more"? 7KW is perfectly adequate for a charge that is intended to be a little bit extra in your pocket while you shop.

It's not that much of a faff to get the cable out of the car to use these chargepoints, and they have the added benefit of having much wider spaces (my biggest concern at supermarkets are people opening their doors carelessly). if I'm in the store for 15 minutes and the extra charge only covers how far I travelled - well, that's a bonus.

 

[WllXM]

I have to mention that it was of course a PHEV hogging the charger with the driver inside on the two occasions... Pesky A-Class-e & 330e ...

But some valid points / perspectives, I hadn't even thought about the 'husband stays in the car while the wife is shopping inside' scenario... Shopping with the wife is too fun to let her go alone...

Anyway that's why I called the thread etiquette. I do think it's bad manners and I would feel incomfortable to be in my car while someone is waiting next to me for the charger.. As usual, a small minority will probably accelerate the end of the free supermarket charging freebie soon, and that's a shame. I definitely enjoy getting 5%-10% added to my battery when doing the weekly shop. Feels much nicer than some Clubcard or Nectar points...

 

[Durzel]

I guess if I was really low on charge and someone was just sat there it would be a bit annoying. Probably easier just to imagine they're not there though, as hard as that might be. So long as they are not going beyond the max parking time then in practical terms they have just as much right to be there as anyone.

I wouldn't have the brass neck to use public charging points in a PHEV, but expecting etiquette out of the public in general will only give yourself stress.. they couldn't give a F.. as they say.

 

[init6]

I'm more relaxed about PHEVs. I'm not sure I would have made the leap from ICE to BEV without trying out 'worry free electric' for a bit. It certainly showed us the value of the Supercharging network. We managed to run our PHEV entirely electrically through the week, so no reason why I wouldn't top up when given the chance.

Back to the OP, maybe there's regional difference here, but seeing someone sitting in the car is much preferable to seeing a driverless car. The first thing I do when the chargers are full is to ask the drivers how long they'll be. This information is always freely given and I've even seen people stop their charge early to let me in. I've done that myself to if someone has asked and I've got enough of a charge. If someone was foolish enough to drive up with only 2 miles left, then they'd soon get a charge.

Now people who use the AC connector on a rapid thereby blocking anyone from using the DC charger when there are plenty of other AC chargers...

 

[Durzel]

That's a fair point. Easy to forget that the transition from ICE to EV is different for everyone.

 

[yessuz]

Free charging is the devils work, it brings out the worst in people, and I'm not particularily proud to say me included (as I still have a few free supercharging miles to use before they expire).

For the first time yesterday I saw the supermarket podpoints in action and 3 of the 4 free charging ones were all people sitting having their lunch and making conference calls. I don’t even see the point of a destination charger at a supermarket with a 2 hour restriction and when most shoppers are in and out in 30 mins or so. At 7kw we’d have added maybe 15 miles while we were there, hardly life changing, about a £1 compared to home charging, whereas I saved £7 on electric toothbrush heads which were on special offer.

In your situation, if it’s free, use it, if it’s not, all you can do is forget about it. It’s the supermarket to determine the policy and policing.

it's the same with Super chargers in Shopping mall parkings. you fully charge yourself in 30 minutes. but if you get in the mall for some activity, you have to get back to your car and to move it in 30 minutes. makes no sense.

In my opinion, the best way would be subsidized up to 22 kw - 50 kw chargers in such places - you can spend couple of hours (or less) shopping or something, charge up to max for low price. slow chargers of 7kw and SCs makes no sense.

but that's an ideal world

 

[qwickshot]

In my opinion, the best way would be subsidized up to 22 kw chargers in such places - you can spend couple of hours, charge up to max for low price. slow chargers of 7kw and SCs makes no sense.

but that's an ideal world

The issue is that in the real world there is only so much power available in a particular location.

I prefer that a huge car park like you find at a shopping mall has 3 times more 7kw plugs than 22kw plugs that hardly anyone can actually utilise. 11kw plugs are not great because if your car doesn’t support 3 phase, it will only charge at 3.7kw which is naff.

So if you had 400kw available capacity on your site, what would you prefer?
18 22kw posts that most people can’t utilise
36 11kw posts that are only 3.7kw for that that can’t support 3 phase
54 7kw posts that are slower but can be utilised by everyone.

I know you can get load balancing charge points so in theory you could put in more 22kw posts, the counter argument is that you could also do the same at 7kw and put in even more.

It’s all a numbers game at the end of the day and for me, as we ramp up to 20 million EVs on the road, volume of plugs is more important than maximising speed for destination charging.

The argument on rapids is much more nuanced, speed matters for long distance travel.

 

[Lord Farquad]

The issue is that in the real world there is only so much power available in a particular location.

I prefer that a huge car park like you find at a shopping mall has 3 times more 7kw plugs than 22kw plugs that hardly anyone can actually utilise. 11kw plugs are not great because if your car doesn’t support 3 phase, it will only charge at 3.7kw which is naff.

So if you had 400kw available capacity on your site, what would you prefer?
18 22kw posts that most people can’t utilise
36 11kw posts that are only 3.7kw for that that can’t support 3 phase
54 7kw posts that are slower but can be utilised by everyone.

I know you can get load balancing charge points so in theory you could put in more 22kw posts, the counter argument is that you could also do the same at 7kw and put in even more.

It’s all a numbers game at the end of the day and for me, as we ramp up to 20 million EVs on the road, volume of plugs is more important than maximising speed for destination charging.

The argument on rapids is much more nuanced, speed matters for long distance travel.

Couldn’t agree more. We should be seeing rows and rows of 7kw chargers at shopping centres, retail parks, supermarkets and parks. They don’t need to be free, but if they’re priced at domestic rates they’ll be appealing to people.

In the past year I’ve seen Chester Zoo and Harry Potter World do this and it’s brilliant.

 

[pgkevet]

I see no reason to be angry at phev using a charge point. If he can run on sparks rather than fumes then it's good for us all. And anyone turning up at a supermarket 7kw podpoint without enough juice to get somewhere better has just learned a valuable lesson in watching their fuel levels. And if they're that desperate they can tap on my window.

 

[Dilly]

The less said about PHEVs the better - utter waste of time, and people who drive them think they have a real electric car! It brings out the worst in me when someone mentions PHEVs!

As for other EVs using free chargers - let them, as long as they are actually using them! Normal etiquette applies. Usually I see cars like Leafs and Zoes charging from them - cars that can't get a rapid charge elsewhere, and they might only have street parking at home so that's their normal charge spot. I never need to use them as I do my normal charge at home, and if I am travelling somewhere, there's always a supercharger in range.

I have to disagree entirely about PHEVs. We’ve owned an Outlander for 5 years. It was the best choice at the time to cart our dogs around and a positive move from a diesel. The overwhelming number of journeys it does are within electric range. Of the 17000 miles we’ve done only 2000 have used petrol. 1000 of that was on a holiday. Bear in mind that 5 years ago, charge points were far less widely available, as were suitable EV’s.
it nags for 15 litres of fresh petrol every 3 months and that’s pretty much all it gets. We generally average 260 miles/gallon In normal use.
Today is a different ball-game. The Outlander will shortly be replaced with a suitable full EV Peugeot. I do accept that the time of PHEVs is coming to an end but, when used sensibly they do have a place.
There has never been an occasion where we’ve charged at a public charger. With the journeys we do it isn’t necessary.

 

[yessuz]

The issue is that in the real world there is only so much power available in a particular location.

I prefer that a huge car park like you find at a shopping mall has 3 times more 7kw plugs than 22kw plugs that hardly anyone can actually utilise. 11kw plugs are not great because if your car doesn’t support 3 phase, it will only charge at 3.7kw which is naff.

So if you had 400kw available capacity on your site, what would you prefer?
18 22kw posts that most people can’t utilise
36 11kw posts that are only 3.7kw for that that can’t support 3 phase
54 7kw posts that are slower but can be utilised by everyone.

I know you can get load balancing charge points so in theory you could put in more 22kw posts, the counter argument is that you could also do the same at 7kw and put in even more.

It’s all a numbers game at the end of the day and for me, as we ramp up to 20 million EVs on the road, volume of plugs is more important than maximising speed for destination charging.

The argument on rapids is much more nuanced, speed matters for long distance travel.

I mean, I talk about situation, where you have 12 x 150 W supercharger in the 3rd floor of the shopping mall parking in the middle of the town - these are mostly underused anyway.
why not to make 6 x superchargers for the poor souls who have to detour from the motorway to middle of city in order to charge, and then 10 x 22 kw for those who park there for 2-3 hours and rest 7 kw for plugins? that would make much more sense really

In you example, if you have 400 kw supply, you can make 5x 40 kw DC, 5 x 22 kw AC and rest 7 kw. plugins cannot use DC charging anyway. they can hug the 7 kw

7 kw charger in car parks which allows you for 2 hrs max stay and you usually spend 30 minutes in (tesco car park as example) is just plain stupid as well as Super chargers in locations where people stay for more than 1 hour.

 

[s88ats]

Unfortunately short of ANPR, training and staff to enforce it - hybrids using chargepoints completely unnecessarily are here to stay.

PHEVs can stlil drive if they have no charge, BEVs can't, so it gets my goat when I spot a giant Range Rover PHEV or equivalent charging.

Bah humbug.

Funny you mentioned a range rover PHEV!

At my local Tesco, there are 2 free 7 kw pod points. I don't often need to charge as it's usually a short shop and it will make hardly any difference to my charge lvls, but every time I've visited (sometimes twice a day) 1 of the 2 is constantly used by a RR PHEV - turns out he's one of the store managers and leaves it plugged in all day!

I'm all up for people using the free pod points, but abusing it is the issue, and the store manager is just out of order imo. I won't hold judgment on people sitting in the car getting each available electron, as long as they're not taking the micky - might be the only source of fuel available for some, I can charge at home, but some might not be able to.

 

[init6]

Funny you mentioned a range rover PHEV!

At my local Tesco, there are 2 free 7 kw pod points. I don't often need to charge as it's usually a short shop and it will make hardly any difference to my charge lvls, but every time I've visited (sometimes twice a day) 1 of the 2 is constantly used by a RR PHEV - turns out he's one of the store managers and leaves it plugged in all day!

I'm all up for people using the free pod points, but abusing it is the issue, and the store manager is just out of order imo. I won't hold judgment on people sitting in the car getting each available electron, as long as they're not taking the micky - might be the only source of fuel available for some, I can charge at home, but some might not be able to.

That's the real issue - people hogging chargers. Doesn't matter if it's a PHEV or a BEV.

 

[s88ats]

That's the real issue - people hogging chargers. Doesn't matter if it's a PHEV or a BEV.

Yes agreed that is the real issue, irrespective of phev or bev.

The Tesco has a 3 hr restriction, which must not apply to staff. In this scenario, I would expect, for etiquette's sake, that once the RR is fully charged the car should be moved to allow usage of both pod points. The smaller battery EVs really do benefit from these 7kw chargers while shopping.

As I said it makes no difference to me but really is irresponsible of the manager imo.

 

[DM250141]

Hello all. This is my first post anywhere since purchasing my M3LR in July 21. This is a copy of a post and a follow up post I made in a Kona EV forum.
By the way I think the M3 is the dogs.

Perhaps you might like to complain like I did to Tesco management. Posts below.

First
I have never charged on a fast charger, but I understand that if I did it is accepted practice to charge up to 80% then let others get a charge. I normally only charge at home at 7kWh. I have only charged once at Tesco and the car gained about 2% so I won’t bother again.
At Tesco there are 4 chargers at 7kWh and yesterday only one space was vacant, I noticed a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV charging and later in the day it was still in the same charging space and plugged in. A woman was exiting the door and I politely asked her if she worked at the Tesco store, answer was yes and how long the vehicle had been there, answer was 8 hours. I thought she was out of order and when I said this she laughed in my face and said it was none of my bloody business, and she always left it on charge there for as long as her shift was, either 8 or 4 hours.
This has now got me wondering how many other Tesco employees are doing the same thing at other Tesco sites, at the detriment of Tesco’s customers.
I phoned Tesco customer service and was informed that the chargers are for Customers and staff but my comments would be noted.
Now here are a couple of thought’s would she be so keen to charge it there if she had to pay say 35p a kWh or would she charge at home on a cheaper rate.

Second
In answer to some comments. I do not have a downer on retail staff or PHEVS. I just thought it was wrong and I am glad I asked the question.
Anyway I took the bull by the horns, and I emailed the Chief executive of Tesco. But I never for one minute thought that I would get a reply. But I did. Pasted below.
Dear Customer,
Thank you for your email sent to Jason Tarry and our Chief Executive's Office, to which I have been asked to reply on their behalf.
I appreciate you taking the time to bring your concerns to our attention in relation to our electric car charging points. I trust you will accept my sincere apologies.
With regards to your concerns, I can confirm that our colleagues can charge their vehicle during a shift. However, we would expect all colleagues to be considerate to others and be mindful that they do not exceed their charging times.
Unfortunately, I do not think that the situation was handled appropriately at the time and this has only made matters worse. Our colleagues should be providing the highest level of service at all times.
I have logged your concerns and these will be passed to the Store Management Team for internal review and to ensure that all colleagues are made aware of our process.
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to bring this to our attention.
On behalf of the Executive’s Office

 

[M1tch]

I’m one of those who use the local podpoint charger and pops to the pub for dinner. The reason is, the MOD have banned charging of all private cars on all sites. The site I’m currently at is quite remote and 20 mins from the nearest charger of any kind. So in order to get home on a Friday I charge in the week and then can make it. That said, I use the 50kw charger and pay for the privilege. One the SC is finished in NEWARK I shouldn’t have the problem and will resort to the free 7kw chargers while using the shop.

The charger in question is busy and getting busier, but the amount I see plugging up and then see in the pub is quite high! Apart from this one, local infrastructure is non-existent

 

[WllXM]

Well, sadly the day has come.

No more free charging on all Tesco Podpoints from 1st of November…

Price update at Tesco stores | FAQs | Pod Point

From 1 November there will be new prices for using charging points. Here’s everything you need to know about the new prices at Tesco stores.

pod-point.com