Tesla blesses other cars blocking two stalls due to short cord

[bradtem]

I was surprised to see, now that Fords, and soon other cars, can use superchargers, that Tesla officially blesses cars parking in such a way as to occupy two supercharger stalls -- or even three! -- due to the short cords. They even show it in a graphic. (They warn them not to park diagonally, though.) It's the last item in the FAQ at https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging-other-evs#cable

I am surprised because there are some solutions they could have done (and perhaps will do) to reduce the effect of this. They know what sort of car you have, and where the port is. They know what stalls are in use, and what cars are navigating to the supercharger. They know if it's full and if there's a line and how long the line is.

• If the station is full, cars that need to take more than one stall should be made to wait. Failing that, they should be limited in their charge to just enough to get to the next station (CCS or Tesla) on their route. Idle fees should be doubled if taking two stalls.
• If a station fills up while such a car is charging, ie. two drivers are waiting that could use the two stalls, the driver taking two stalls should be signaled on their app and told to move their car and wait until there are again two free stalls.
• For cars with the port on the other side (front left, or rear right) they should be directed only to stalls on the right side of a charger bank and grouped there, while cars with the Tesla configuration would be directed to the left side. If done properly, no stalls are wasted.

In general, I think Tesla should implement a system that assigns you a stall as you arrive at the SC. (You must navigate to SC.) Ford drivers would invoke their Tesla app and be told which stall is for them. No other stall would charge you unless the station is at low occupancy. This would also, at V2 superchargers which share power between stalls, allocate you to the stall at which you would get the most power. (ie. paired with the car that has been there the longest and has already slowed down charging) which is something Tesla knows but you don't. If a stall is broken and Tesla doesn't know it, you would report it broken and get assigned a different stall.

This is even more important for the non-Teslas at the stations to use their assigned stall. As noted, any stall other than the one assigned to them would not activate so they would learn.

V4 stalls will have longer cords so it will be less trouble there, but allocation still makes sense.

 

[Watts_Up]

V4 stalls will have longer cords so it will be less trouble there, but allocation still makes sense.View attachment 1023664

Maybe Tesla should advice then for "Tesla Users" to:

try avoiding parking in the first two left and last two right stalls​

to let "Non-Tesla Users" to charge more easily?

 

[bradtem]

Maybe Tesla should advice then for "Tesla Users" to:

try avoiding parking in the first two left and last two right stalls​

to let "Non-Tesla Users" to charge more easily?

There are two types of contention. Some cars can park in one space, but use the charger on their left, while Teslas use the one on the right (facing the charger.) To share those two types, you want the Teslas to use the ones on the left of the bank, and the reverse side cars to use the ones on the right side.

For cars that must park on the line, indeed it is better to leave the end stalls for them. Doubly so for cars parking sideways.

 

[Watts_Up]

What I noticed is that "Tesla drivers" takes the habit to park every other stall,
just as reminiscence of the shared 150 kW chargers, and also to more easily open the doors.

But in this case, this will block any "Non-Tesla" users who otherwise
would need to park half way in the middle of two consecutive stalls:

 

[Watts_Up]

So a good recommendation for "Tesla Users" could be to:

park in the middle, and use every stall without space between​

​

try avoiding parking in the first two left and last two right stalls​

 

[bradtem]

What I noticed is that "Tesla drivers" takes the habit to park every other stall,
just as reminiscence of the shared 150 kW chargers, and also to more easily open the doors.

But in this case, this will block any "Non-Tesla" users who otherwise
would need to park half way in the middle of two consecutive stalls:

There are lots of reasons to park every other stall, not just because of V2 sharing. It's just easier to get in and out of your car, and gets you more privacy, and easier to get into and out of spaces with nobody next door.

This is why I think Tesla should just tell you what stall to use. You could also tell it things like that you have a trailer for those stations that have 1 or 2 stalls usable by such cars. At V2 chargers I definitely want Tesla to tell me which stall will be able to give me the most power, because it knows about the matched stall, and how much power the car there is taking, and how much more power it's going to need. When I get to a V2 station I sometimes will try to figure out which cars just arrived and which have been there a while. Cars with nobody in them are more likely to have been there a while. I avoid parking by model X as they can draw more power for longer and I only get what they don't need. Tesla could figure all this out and improve throughput at the charger.

There is some sharing at V3 too and it usually doesn't hit you but if it did, Tesla could distribute cars to put out the most power. It's a win for everybody, other than having to look at your screen to see what stall to go to, and having to have hit "nav to supercharger" which you should anyway. (Actually, even if you don't, the car could notice you driving by the superchargers and temporarily allocate you a stall, and you could decline it and drive on.) In any event, if the station is not full, you can ignore it and park in any spot if you won't be there for long.

 

[Watts_Up]

There are lots of reasons to park every other stall, not just because of V2 sharing.
It's just easier to get in and out of your car, and gets you more privacy,
and easier to get into and out of spaces with nobody next door.

I avoid parking by model X as they can draw more power for longer and I only get what they don't need.

I can't wait for superchargers full of Cybertrucks, especially because
the Tesla cables have been reported to be too short for the Cybertruck!!!


Note: I would recommend to fold your mirrors when using a Supercharger,

when you stay inside the car without locking the doors,​

​

- This is an option that Tesla could add when charging.​

 

[buckets0fun]

What I noticed is that "Tesla drivers" takes the habit to park every other stall,
just as reminiscence of the shared 150 kW chargers, and also to more easily open the doors.

But in this case, this will block any "Non-Tesla" users who otherwise
would need to park half way in the middle of two consecutive stalls:

View attachment 1023703

Good. Make it obnoxious for non “proper” chargeport location vehicles.

So far Porsche is the only company that suits the current/ non v4 stalls. Macan - RL and taycan - FR

 

[buckets0fun]

I can't wait for superchargers full of Cybertrucks, especially because
the Tesla cables have been reported to be too short for the Cybertruck!!!


Note: I would recommend to fold your mirrors when using a Supercharger,

when you stay inside the car without locking the doors,​

​

- This is an option that Tesla could add when charging.​

They’re usually not. Back up further. If bollard, sure very limited reach.

 

[MikeChicago]

Agh. You guys are way too nice. I am not happy with this at all. I bought a Tesla so that I could charge reliably. Now I will worry if there is going to be a stall available.

On the other hand, this will no doubt help EV adoption and that’s obviously super important.

 

[petercc9]

Agh. You guys are way too nice. I am not happy with this at all. I bought a Tesla so that I could charge reliably. Now I will worry if there is going to be a stall available.

On the other hand, this will no doubt help EV adoption and that’s obviously super important.

Most of us outside of California are lucky to have 8 stalls at a site. Having somebody take up 2 isn't going to be fun.

I guess we should be thankful the Ford trucks have the plugs in the front. I wouldn't be looking forward to seeing a big pickup truck attempting to backup into a stall space next to me...just perpetually praying it doesn't hit me. One supercharger site near me requires sharp turns due to space limitations of an island.

of course the elephant in the room too..

 

[buckets0fun]

I guess we should be thankful the Ford trucks have the plugs in the front.

But on the wrong side for a v3 supercharger to reach, as evident by ford’s video on the topic

So far it seems like the Macan and Taycan are some of the few that won’t go over like a turd in a punch bowl.

 

[ucmndd]

I think this is mostly a contrived problem made up by people looking for a reason to keep the supercharger walled garden in place.

99+% of the time this isn’t going to be an issue whatsoever. One can hope that automakers adopting NACS will also adopt a common charge point location that will make this a non-issue within the next refresh cycle.

Temporary inconvenience completely overblown by people looking to create a problem where at best a minor and transient issue exists.

 

[ucmndd]

I wouldn't be looking forward to seeing a big pickup truck attempting to backup into a stall space next to me..

As you pointed out, Tesla’s own cosplay bro-dozer is likely to be your worst enemy in this regard.

 

[petercc9]

But on the wrong side for a v3 supercharger to reach, as evident by ford’s video on the topic

So far it seems like the Macan and Taycan are some of the few that won’t go over like a turd in a punch bowl.

Honestly I think Tesla is going to face a backlash of angry Tesla owners who aren't going to be happy with some of the expected scenarios.

 

[petercc9]

I think this is mostly a contrived problem made up by people looking for a reason to keep the supercharger walled garden in place.

99+% of the time this isn’t going to be an issue whatsoever. One can hope that automakers adopting NACS will also adopt a common charge point location that will make this a non-issue within the next refresh cycle.

Temporary inconvenience completely overblown by people looking to create a problem where at best a minor and transient issue exists.

I think being in California you don't realize Superchargers can be relatively sparsely located in some states.

There's probably more superchargers in the LA metro area than in my entire state.

 

[buckets0fun]

I think this is mostly a contrived problem made up by people looking for a reason to keep the supercharger walled garden in place.

99+% of the time this isn’t going to be an issue whatsoever. One can hope that automakers adopting NACS will also adopt a common charge point location that will make this a non-issue within the next refresh cycle.

Temporary inconvenience completely overblown by people looking to create a problem where at best a minor and transient issue exists.

Seems as though you may not have cross country traveled, particularly the i80 east corridor where 4 stalls are common place.

I suspect the 12,000 stalls will be rolled back to bare minimum for fed $$$ or they’ll ‘restrict’ non teslas to stalls that don’t impact tesla owners, after enough sadness comes from T owners.

The angst at superchargers with limited stalls is already bad enough, some owners like to ‘police’ SOC of other EV owners while charging. Victorville, CA comes to mind on this one where the queue is regularly 4+ cars.

 

[ucmndd]

Seems as though you may not have cross country traveled, particularly the i80 east corridor where 4 stalls are common place.

I've done more than 200,000 miles in Teslas all over the Western US from the Canadian to Mexican borders and as far east as Kansas.

Serious question, how many times have you had to wait for a stall on your long-haul travels? I can count mine on one hand. The only places I've found myself waiting any time in the recent past is at chargers in urban areas like LA or the Bay Area where locals and/or apartment dwellers ensure sites are busy nearly 24/7.

Tesla has done an admirable job of keeping up with the needs of an ever-expanding EV fleet. Far better than most to be sure. The proper solution here is to keep building as they have been, not erect artificial restrictions in some vain attempt to protect interests.

Tesla sells what, ten cars for every non-Tesla EV in the US right now? I'm not scared of a plague of Mach Es blocking my charging sites.... I'm scared of the plague of new Model Y owners doing the same.

 

[petercc9]

Seems as though you may not have cross country traveled, particularly the i80 east corridor where 4 stalls are common place.

I suspect the 12,000 stalls will be rolled back to bare minimum for fed $$$ or they’ll ‘restrict’ non teslas to stalls that don’t impact tesla owners, after enough sadness comes from T owners.

The angst at superchargers with limited stalls is already bad enough, some owners like to ‘police’ SOC of other EV owners while charging. Victorville, CA comes to mind on this one where the queue is regularly 4+ cars.

It's even worse in the NorthEast where cities were designed before cars. So now you have lots of people who do street parking and can't run a power cord across the sidewalk. Or if they do have a space they need an extension cord to reach an outlet. Even old 8000 sq ft single family homes with just driveways can have issues reaching an outlet on the side of a house without an extension cord. Detached garages with worn out 70 yr old wiring is not great too.

Toss in the availability of only a handful of supercharger sites and you are going to have an angry crowd soon....

Massachusetts homes are among nation's oldest - Boston Agent Magazine

...

bostonagentmagazine.com

The NAHB found that the median age of the state’s housing stock was 54 years old,

 

[bradtem]

He is correct. Waiting at intercity chargers is not a very common thing. Sometimes on Friday night going to popular vacation home spots. While I don't charge in my own city (why would I?) on the map I do often see chargers filling up at night and getting waits.

As shown in the picture, the Ford, if parked tires to the curb, can plug in to the charger on the left. However, that means the space to the left is not available for a Tesla, which means you want to strongly advise drivers of such vehicles to park in the leftmost available space in a bank. It also means that a Ford can't park to the right of a Tesla, which is why a general rule of "Fords and similar on the left, Teslas on the right" means everybody is OK. Until cars start arriving that have to park sideways. V4 chargers, and "Teslas go in forwards" chargers should be more amenable.

I think there will be contention, but only some of the time.