UncleCreepy
Member
It doesn't seem to be an issue at any of the CCS stations I've seen so far. Using longer cables to keep the number of blocked stalls to a minimum is a cost-effective solution.
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Tesla blesses other cars blocking two stalls due to short cord
- Thread starter bradtem
- Start date
Yes they pay idle fees. No they don't pay for adjacent stalls they're blocking. Nobody is recommending parking sideways across multiple stalls... Tesla's instructions recommend taking up two stalls only if necessary, not three, not four. No, you shouldn't block a bunch of stalls with your trailer because you're upset about non-Teslas not having ideal charge port locations at V3 stalls.
ChooseFreedom
Member
You may be right. I have zero knowledge/experience with CCS stations.
I've just seen several posts on here about them being frequently broken/out of service. And no real rush to fix them.
But that's strictly from this forum.
Tesla probably used cables just barely long enough to reach Tesla car charge ports because, at high power levels, a long cable may need to be thicker and heavier and have increased liquid cooling capability, which increases the expense beyond just a linear relationship with cable length and may not be a simple retrofit of just swapping in a longer cable.
A longer cable also means needing to add additional cable management to keep the cable from being left where it can be run over.
However, making Superchargers accessible to EVs with charge ports other than left rear and right front does mean either adding longer cables or different parking arrangements for charging. Access for vehicles with trailers requires its own changes to parking arrangements.
As of now, at Superchargers where the right-most space is adjacent to a non-charging space, it would help if there were a convention that EVs with left rear or right front charge ports fill from the left, while other EVs fill from the right.
I used CCS chargers 3 times. Every time it required software installation on my phone (it's most fun in CO mountains with unstable signal), registration, putting in my card number, and then multiple (3 or more) attempts to initiate charging session (most fun if it is raining). On average it took me about 15 minutes to start charging, and I guess I was lucky as I still don't understand why the charging started after the 3rd, 4th, or 5th attempt and failed on all previous attempts. The experience was extremely frustrating.
I mean a lightning will still either take up two stalls or block the road
In the early days, Tesla put chargers up on the curb, and made the cords pretty much exactly the length to reach a Tesla and not much longer. This is, quite simply, the lowest cost approach so no surprise they took it. Charger docks in the asphalt is a fair bit more expensive, you have to dig up the pavement. Tesla makes banks of 4 chargers as one unit in the factory and they arrive on a flatbed and it's easy to place them in a trench and form a curb from concrete than to dig a trench in the pavement and repave. But now that they want to support other vehicles, they are building new stations with longer cords and what you see in the photo. It costs more but is worth it now. They probably won't make the cords as long as CCS stations (or do what EA does, which is put a cord on each side of the station) but they will handle most cars. In addition, they won at their battle to get all the cars to switch to NACS. As part of switching to NACS the new models will put the socket close to the two corners which work with Tesla's config.
However, for some years to come, many current cars can't fit at the stations. However, *most* of them can fit as long as people take the policy of parking Teslas on the left of the bank and inverse cars on the right of the bank.
However, for some years to come, many current cars can't fit at the stations. However, *most* of them can fit as long as people take the policy of parking Teslas on the left of the bank and inverse cars on the right of the bank.
EA doesn't even do that anymore... Their current hardware is all single cable. (I'd have to watch the interview again to see what they said about J3400/NACS support, I don't recall if they said if they plan to add/replace or what. But it isn't coming until 2025, so plenty of time for them to change their mind.)
At 25 minutes into the interview, the EA executive indicated that they will remain single-cable when they roll out NACS support. To me, this means they're ultimately planning on ditching the CCS connector. This is, in my opinion, the correct move forward.
It always seemed like overkill. There was one thing that would have been very useful on a two-cable station, which would be to give it two parking spaces, so that when the station is full, people would plug into the other cable and start charging when the first guy is done. You could keep the station at 100% operation (if it can handle that duty cycle) and have happier customers who can go take a longer meal. But they didn't do that. This should also be the norm at level 2 stations, particularly at airports and offices and even at hotels. (At hotels, people may be more likely to need a nearly-full charge from 10% to 90%, but even that should be done in 6-7 hours, and so if one guest plugs in at 6pm and another guest isn't leaving until 8am or 9am, you can do two such guests on the same charger, though even smarter is to pair guests who need a full charge with those who need a partial one.
Or of course, just have more stalls, but the way stalls are overpriced, they don't do that.
It's hard enough to get dedicated spots for EV charging. I don't think proposing two dedicated spots per charger is going to get much traction. If they're going to have two parking spaces and two cables per charger, I expect simultaneous charging.
If they would have 2 stalls per charger, they would really have needed power sharing.
But they didn't do that, which sucks when a good number of CCS cars (including mine!) underutilize the charger capability.
As I said, if they have the money, then of course have more EVSEs. But parking spaces already exist, you are not building them. It's a question of do you space the EVSE every 2 spaces or every one. Doing it every 2 spaces costs somewhat more as you must trench an extra 10 feet of conduit, but it's not nearly as much as putting in double the EVSEs.
Now, the better solution, as you say, is for EVSEs that support 2 or even 4 cars. If you want those to fully support the 2 cars, both with full power that has a cost. However, it's fairly cheap to have them share the power. And indeed, it's only a tiny bit cheaper, if at all, for an EVSE to switch from one car to the next than for it to share the power among two cars, so that's really what should be installed.
However, what you really consider is how much budget you have and what you can get for it. The same budget might buy 8 stalls next to each other, or perhaps 6 double stalls. If all the cars are going to need a full recharge, the 8 is the right choice, but in almost all real world cases the 6 double stalls will handle 12 cars without anybody having to move their car in the night.
I don't think that's true. I believe the 2 cable chargers are able to choose which cord they use, but they can't do both at once. So with some extra software, I think they could let both be plugged in, and charge the first car, and when it's done, charge the 2nd car, though I don't know if they could do the handshake on the 2nd car while the first is charging, which would be an issue, considering how often the handshake fails at CCS stations.
After reading the linked page, I will not be unhooking in my tesla or non tesla while charging.
I think the ethos is to do what you need to do to charge. Now, if a station is low-usage, have at it and do whatever is most convenient. If what you do is going to block other people from charging, then you do have an ethical consideration. It would certainly be courteous to unhook and not block people. For the Ford driver, if they can't fit any other way, there is no option available to them other than to park so as to block, other than to seek another charger, if there is one within range. So that's a different situation. A person with a trailer blocking 4 stalls when there are people in line is probably going to be seen as a bit of a dick because he could have, with some hassle, not done that.
It would be good if the charger maps used by the Ford/etc. drivers showed which stations it is easier for them to park at, including CCS stations and different superchargers, and if it also encouraged all to park in the way to cause the least blocking (Teslas on the left, inverse cars on the right.) Many people recommend small motorized trailer movers to make it super easy to connect and disconnect, which are handy not just for charging, but they cost money.
Towing with a Tesla is of course a dicey proposition at any time, due to range, not just difficulty of charging. In the future there are going to be trailers with their own batteries and motors to solve the range problem, though one will need special stations to charge both vehicles and you probably will have to undock for that anyway.
I should have added a smiley face. I could not block stalls regardless of what kind of car I have as I wasn't brought up that way. Unfortunately I got a feeling, based on experience that there are plenty who are "entitled" and don't give a crap who they inconvenience and opening the chargers to all will just increase the odds.
I can only hope that the extra revenue from the non-Tesla users will speed up the expanding of the charger network. If it does that it's probably worth it. For the record I have supercharged exactly 2 times and one for less than 5 minutes in my 3.5 months and 3,600 miles of usage. Plug in at night and it's all I need 95% of the time.
There will be still enough space on that road even if the Lightning is charging. These chargers can be accessed from both sides actually; I know this charger personally. Perhaps the only design that is this good I saw in CA, but I hope Tesla will be now more thoughtful when installing new superchargers.
It's not so much about thought, as cost. Tesla's more common curb stalls with short cords is very cost efficient. Other chargers cost $150K to $200K to install. Tesla seems to pull it off for about $30K-$50K per stall through a variety of techniques. Yes, Tesla is really that much better. (This is in part because the common subsidy for CCS chargers is $150K, and the price of something naturally rises to match the subsidy.)
They never had a reason to support anything but Teslas which can all park at the curb stalls unless they have a trailer. If it's an empty lot before they install, the pavement embedded approach isn't that much more expensive, ditto longer cords, but it was never needed. Even so, it's more vulnerable to damage from cars which hit a stall.
I think most people would prefer not to block anybody else from charging, but when you need a charge to continue, you need a charge.
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