FSD Arbitration.

[gearchruncher]

Is there a case of Tesla suing anyone for defamation in US ?

Tesla is a US company, but showing that if they had the capability, they'd probably sue you in the USA if they don't like what you say, because in places where they can, they do.

Not really something you'd expect from an Elon company. The guy that believes he has the right to tweet whatever he wants, he's just messing around. But for his customers? How dare they. Sue.

 

[gearchruncher]

And in Governing Law:

"Prior agreements, oral statements, negotiations, communications or representations about the Vehicle sold under this Agreement are superseded by this Agreement."

Tesla advertises that a Plaid goes 0-60 in 1.9 seconds.
If you get a plaid, and it can only do 0-60 in 8 seconds, do you have any claim? The 0-60 isn't in the MVPA anywhere, just in advertising. Neither is the range of the vehicle.

If your claim is that all you get is in the MVPA, there's nothing from stopping Tesla from delivering you a used Model S from 2014 with a battery worn down to 20 miles of range.

 

[clydeiii]

Ya'll need to look at Kickstarter before going further here. I have backed countless projects that claimed "Delivery in August 2018" and instead delivered in 2020. These things happen all the time.

 

[EVNow]

Tesla is a US company, but showing that if they had the capability, they'd probably sue you in the USA if they don't like what you say, because in places where they can, they do.

Nonsese. Its like saying every US president would behave like a sub-saharan dictator, if he could.

 

[EVNow]

Ya'll need to look at Kickstarter before going further here. I have backed countless projects that claimed "Delivery in August 2018" and instead delivered in 2020. These things happen all the time.

I think most people forget or simply don't care that we are talking about bleeding edge tech. They want their cake and they want it now

 

[rjack1282]

Tesla advertises that a Plaid goes 0-60 in 1.9 seconds.
If you get a plaid, and it can only do 0-60 in 8 seconds, do you have any claim? The 0-60 isn't in the MVPA anywhere, just in advertising. Neither is the range of the vehicle.

If your claim is that all you get is in the MVPA, there's nothing from stopping Tesla from delivering you a used Model S from 2014 with a battery worn down to 20 miles of range.

I'm not claiming the MVPA is the end all be all final word. I'm just saying as a purchaser we are starting from a position of having voluntarily signed a contract with terms and conditions that are in the best interest of Tesla. Someone has to overcome that first if they are going to get anywhere else.

Your 0-60 example is a good one. Let's say that happens to someone.

From MVPA: "You agree to purchase the vehicle (the “Vehicle”) described in your Vehicle Configuration from Tesla, Inc. or its affiliate (“we,” “us” or “our”), pursuant to the terms and conditions of this Agreement. Your Vehicle is priced and configured based on features and options available at the time of order and you can confirm availability with a Tesla representative. Options, features or hardware released after you place your order may not be included in or available for your Vehicle."

The 0-60 time was a feature clearly advertised by Tesla available at the time of order. Obviously not all features are listed in the agreement so as a purchaser we are basing our purchase on a feature list outside of the MVPA. This example would be an easier one to win if Tesla didn't voluntarily make it right. Notice it doesn't say, "Your Vehicle is priced and configured based on features, options, and promises available at the time of order...."

 

[gearchruncher]

Nonsese. Its like saying every US president would behave like a sub-saharan dictator, if he could.

Except in this case, Tesla is ACTUALLY doing it, not just being theorized that they would.
If they believe so much in US freedom of speech, why are they suing someone in China? Why do they find that OK in China, but not in the USA, if the USA laws didn't protect us?

 

[gearchruncher]

The 0-60 time was a feature clearly advertised by Tesla available at the time of order.

City streets autosteer was clearly advertised as "coming this year" in 2019. 2020, and 2021. Right in the checkout process.
Why is that different? They literally can't make it right (2020 is long gone), and they refuse to offer refunds.

My car was clearly advertised as having all hardware needed for FSD in 2016. It doesn't. Why is that different? Why can Tesla charge $1000 to make it true?

 

[gearchruncher]

I think most people forget or simply don't care that we are talking about bleeding edge tech.

And many people forget that Tesla SOLD this bleeding edge tech in 2016, with timeframes attached that did not come true.
Of course some people want it now. Tesla took money for it with a date attached, didn't deliver, and now that it is available, it has conditions attached that were not in the original agreement, and they do not offer refunds.

 

[rjack1282]

City streets autosteer was clearly advertised as "coming this year" in 2019. 2020, and 2021. Right in the checkout process.
Why is that different? They literally can't make it right (2020 is long gone), and they refuse to offer refunds.

My car was clearly advertised as having all hardware needed for FSD in 2016. It doesn't. Why is that different? Why can Tesla charge $1000 to make it true?

The first example is tough because it wasn't a feature available at the time of purchase. It was a promise.

The second example is similar to the 0-60 example. You have a strong case there.

 

[Microterf]

I think the biggest thing for me was the fact that they did start rolling it out to certain individuals who by the way were not in the early access program as far as I've seen prior to FSD Beta.

The only correlation for non employees seems to be social media for most of them (of course if there are a bunch that don't have social media, then we won't know about them)

They even added others to it after the fact that had a social media presence because enough people tweeted at Elon.

I love Tesla and I love Elon, and I want them to succeed as much as anybody, but I also want everybody to be able to get access to what they paid for within reason. It appears they are on the right track now. (They should have done the safe driving report last October to determine who got in imo).

 

[qdeathstar]

Nonsese. Its like saying every US president would behave like a sub-saharan dictator, if he could.

 

[hill]

^^^ what is the issue being arbitrated? non-delivery?

if buyers bought it 1/2 decade ago? Plus the boilerplate back then? non-delivery could certainly apply.
.

 

[Az_Rael]

Tesla advertises that a Plaid goes 0-60 in 1.9 seconds.
If you get a plaid, and it can only do 0-60 in 8 seconds, do you have any claim? The 0-60 isn't in the MVPA anywhere, just in advertising.

*cough* 691HP *cough*

I believe Tesla did have to pay out in that case, although it was in the Netherlands I think, so not directly US law. I am surprised the FTC hasn't gotten them yet for false advertising though.

 

[Tesomega]

Just about a 1.5 weeks to see if you're right.

Since the button went out the narrative has changed dramatically. Now FSD (autosteer city) being released is inevitable and a matter of when.

That's a far cry from it's a scam/fraud, never going to happen, ...etc...

The only problem I see here is that the firmware is not even available for some of the cars such as mine (MCU1/AP3) and no timeline or update is available. The car is 4 years old already and no resolution insight. I am going to ask for a full refund with interest (based on TSLA Share value for the money paid), will this work ?

 

[qdeathstar]

The only problem I see here is that the firmware is not even available for some of the cars such as mine (MCU1/AP3) and no timeline or update is available. The car is 4 years old already and no resolution insight. I am going to ask for a full refund with interest (based on TSLA Share value for the money paid), will this work ?

You might get interest but not interest in Tesla stock. Probably 1-3 percent.

I think you will likely get nothing, but best case is a prorated amount for the fsd features you did get. So maybe like 4000

 

[EVNow]

The only problem I see here is that the firmware is not even available for some of the cars such as mine (MCU1/AP3) and no timeline or update is available. The car is 4 years old already and no resolution insight. I am going to ask for a full refund with interest (based on TSLA Share value for the money paid), will this work ?

Do you want to get FSD Beta whenever it becomes available (say in 6 months) ? If you again pay $10k (or more !) - whats the point ?

It would be useful to ask for prorated money-back based on the amount of time you have not had the feature. It makes sense to someone who paid for FSD in 2016 - but not for you, really.

Ofcourse, if you don't want FSD at all in future, you could ask for money back.

 

[dbldwn02]

Ya'll need to look at Kickstarter before going further here. I have backed countless projects that claimed "Delivery in August 2018" and instead delivered in 2020. These things happen all the time.

Not a great comparison. Kickstarter specifically tells you in checkout that "we're not a store and there's a good chance you won't get ANY product, ever"

Tesla says at checkout, "FSD coming later this year, pending regulatory approval (2018)" I guess they're waiting on regulatory approval to give me FSD on my MCU1 car.

 

[Whittakerj]

I'm getting ready to file a lawsuit in small claims court in Arizona. I'm going to sue for the amount of the Infotainment upgrade. This is based on the fact that old MCU1 users aren't getting the latest version of FSD. Mine is from week 8 of 2022.

Before I proceed I was curious if anyone else above actually took the time to file a small claims court lawsuit.

 

[Dewg]

I'm getting ready to file a lawsuit in small claims court in Arizona. I'm going to sue for the amount of the Infotainment upgrade. This is based on the fact that old MCU1 users aren't getting the latest version of FSD. Mine is from week 8 of 2022.

Before I proceed I was curious if anyone else above actually took the time to file a small claims court lawsuit.

You have to be very careful about how you file and what you're claiming. See posts from @gearcruncher for his story on how he was successful