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diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Layout 1 is my least favorite.
I like Layout 3 and 4 the best, with a preference for 4. I like a big view of the outside world with a clean view of the FSD visualizations.
clydeiii
Member
Comments like these tell me you don't understand the enormity of what v9 is accomplishing. They're rewritten the way the car understands the world from the ground up. That it's better out of the the gate than the previous instance tells you that it's a rock-solid foundation to build upon in the near future via machine learning.
Nice drive. I don’t think it was actually aiming for the white parked car, it was moving to avoid the oncoming car and probably wouldn’t have hit the white car, but you were 100% right to override. IMO, all beta testers should be overriding when they aren’t comfortable. On that note, in situations where the car is taking too long for your liking to complete a turn or maneuver through an intersection, I think you should be applying the accelerator yourself (with your hands on the wheel and ready to take over steering as well if necessary) and just note in the video that the go pedal was applied. From everything I’ve heard, the Tesla team treats the accelerator as an intervention and reviews any use of it during a Beta run just like any other intervention.
Mix of both impressive and disappointing, which is a step up over your old 8.2 vids, which were mostly terrifying, lol. The driving policy for construction and cones cutting off one side of the road with oncoming traffic that should be yielded to clearly needs work (about 9:15 in the vid), and it’s clear that vision isn’t set yet to recognize an open trench in the road yet (a few seconds after the failure to yield) as it looked like the car at least briefly considered trying to maneuver between the cones, which would have resulted in the car dropping into the trench.
imo, a clear improvement over the previous version, but not close to being ready for a general release as is. Based on what I’ve seen, we might get a wider Beta release by the end of the year, but only once Tesla has tweaked the logic so the car requests confirmation from the driver before trying to complete more complex maneuvers like unprotected turns and passing stopped cars in the road by crossing into the opposing lane of traffic, for examples.
Another vid from DirtyTesla
A couple of early interventions while on dirt roads. Car doesn’t perceive overgrown bushes invading road space yet so the driver had to intervene twice to avoid scraping the car against some bushes.
4:25 - car requires intervention on unprotected right turn. Was taking the turn wide with a car approaching which could have resulted in a collision.
7.45 - car starts slowing a bit for no detectable reason, requiring a go pedal intervention. Car then briefly considers an incorrect lane change before correcting itself.
Return trip is sped up because there was no audio due to a glitch. He notes that there was one disengagement (car wasn’t going to change lanes in time to make a turn) and one intervention where he had to hit the go pedal.
All in all, mostly an impressive and incident free vid. Mostly confirms my thought that we might be able to get a wider Beta release by the end of the year, albeit one with user confirmation required for more complex maneuvers like unprotected turns.
edit - 15:20 car hits a thin stick that was sticking up in the dirt road. No damage to car.
Tesla vision is incredibly impressive. It's a great proof of concept.
It is _not_ ready.
It drives into featureless textured objects, and can't see curbs very well. Also it apparently can't see objects low to the ground like potted plants.
This is a big problem because we need to be able to trust FSD to not drive into solid objects, and TV hasn't proven that it is capable.
I may not understand the enormity of this grand v9 but I do see a car that drives in circles, eats speed bumps for lunch and can't make left turns. When you listen to how this was all talked up like some huge improvement it looks like a total dud to me. I do not see this ever being released in its present shape to the general public. It will be sometime next year before that happens if not the year after for sure.
powertoold
Active Member
Disagree. I think it's ready for supervised testing by non-Tesla affiliated people. 8.2 was a lot worse, and no accidents happened per Elon.
No accidents because either the Tesla driver or other vehicle intervened.
It may be a enormous accomplishment in terms of the transition from radar to vision but as an end user I don’t care much about that aspect of it. I’m looking purely at how it drives between 8.2 and 9. And not being able to see big objects at this point is not confidence inspiring.
From what I've watched so far it seems like when v9 is "working" it works extremely well, but the cases where it does screw up they're pretty big issues.
That being said, in a more rural area, I don't think there would be any issue using this current v9. I'd almost be willing to bet it, in its current state, would get me from my driveway to my work parking lot with <1 intervention. Sure, its no L5 system but it doesn't need to be to still be useful.
The core driving though seems to be a ton better/smoother which gives me confidence going forward that the rewrite was a good move.
That being said, in a more rural area, I don't think there would be any issue using this current v9. I'd almost be willing to bet it, in its current state, would get me from my driveway to my work parking lot with <1 intervention. Sure, its no L5 system but it doesn't need to be to still be useful.
The core driving though seems to be a ton better/smoother which gives me confidence going forward that the rewrite was a good move.
Do you have any data proving this besides Elon tweeting it? It makes many of the same mistakes as before, which isn't really the way a full rewrite works. Why did they rewrite it?
It looks to me like they rewrote the distance estimation method, and made some other tweaks.
rxlawdude
Active Member
As is the design that the Tesla driver intervene!
People lobbing these handfuls of of crap hoping something sticks are certainly predictable.
Have to disagree here. At 4:25 you have correctly pointed out the near collision, which 100% would have been a high-speed collision. That alone negates anything positive about the drive. We cannot tolerate this, there is nothing impressive that can make up for such an incident.
I would be concerned of who gets to test these builds on the public roads. I believe in the right hands, the development team can get very valuable data and accelerate advancement that they wouldn't get otherwise. But in the wrong hands, someone will likely get hurt badly or killed. What if someone decided to just push the envelope and decided not to intervene at all? We all know that's not the right way to operate, but it will happen if wrong people got their hands on it.
So the question is, how does Tesla expand the V9+ distribution safely?
Exactly. If the failures are fatal, it is unacceptable. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills: are people really saying that a device that is documented to cause fatal mistakes within 24 hours of a very limited release is ok to release to the public (??)
I know it's disappointing. But if you find yourself excusing these problems, please reconsider your intentions and potential subconscious biases. I'm rooting for Tesla too, but we have to stay grounded in reality.
Once FSD can prove that it won't drive straight into solid objects, and demonstrates a high level of safety when it fails (maybe dropping into a failsafe autosteer-only mode, or pulling over to the side, etc), then a wider release is more appropriate. I'm not saying it has to be perfect. It just has to not kill people.
Vid with some nice time stamps. Disengagement at 11:24 is one of the situations where I think for now Tesla would have to require user confirmation for any kind of wide release by the end of the year. Car thinks the truck is stopped in the road so it’s going to try to pass it, when the truck was actually waiting to turn left. whatever logic Tesla has programmed for stopped cars is one of the things that seems to consistently get the beta in the most trouble for now.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
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