FSD getting things right

[gsmith123]

Just as a thought experiment, how would it be if everyone actually followed the traffic laws all the time?

It's an interesting thought experiment. Letting FSDb drive me around has probably been the closest to robotically following every traffic law I'll ever get. My big observations are:

- people don't slow down immediately at speed limit changes (like a 65 > 55 change). Previously FSDb would just immediately slow all the way down; this is unnecessarily abrupt and gets in the way of the flow of traffic
- stopping fully at all stop signs is much more conservative than is needed for safe driving


I guess if everyone strictly followed every traffic law, including speed limits, we could actually raise the speeds limits (and have the same actual traffic flow speeds as today).

I'd appreciate if everyone maintained reasonable following distances and signalled for lane changes. That would be a big improvement.

 

[worldtraveller]

Eagerly awaiting the opportunity to use it one day in the Uk. But I suspect the big issue is roundabouts.

We even have ‘magic roundabouts’ near me which are multiple linked mini-roundabouts which make up a giant bi-directional roundabout (with not all humans tackling them very well).

But nice to see a positive post about FSD.

We have multiple mini-roundabouts and calming islands (with low curb) where I drive. Most are unlined. I find I need to disengage as the car doesn't recognize them well.

 

[timberlights]

ONe thing I find is that FSD doesn't always signal in as anticipatory of a way as I would. On a more serious note, there is a cloverleaf intersection that I often use, and it just wants to stay on the ramps versus merge into traffic, so I always have to take over. Don't get that one! LOL

 

[zoomer0056]

ONe thing I find is that FSD doesn't always signal in as anticipatory of a way as I would. On a more serious note, there is a cloverleaf intersection that I often use, and it just wants to stay on the ramps versus merge into traffic, so I always have to take over. Don't get that one! LOL

That would be, in Australians terms, a round about.

 

[gsmith123]

ONe thing I find is that FSD doesn't always signal in as anticipatory of a way as I would

Turn signal usage is generally a big weak point for me.

At this point I assume Tesla has no intent to fix these things until V12 “end to end AI”. Probably reasonable, hand coded improvements to signaling would get replaced by the AI eventually.

 

[kpanda17]

I’m on the cusp of being addicted to FSD
Think once we arrive at the big jump in positive function I’ll be hooked

 

[FloridaJohn]

Err, aren't both Tesla and Waymo driving over 1 million miles between at accidents?

It's an awesome achievement, to be clear! But it's actually a pretty routine thing now and every few days the FSDb fleet drives a million miles.

From Tesla's latest IR report we know the FSDb fleet is driving a bit over a million miles per day:

View attachment 976143

Accident rates are less well known. Tesla claims well under 1 per million miles (here, for instance). We can of course debate how FSD may be used primarily in easy conditions, how drivers are attentive and intervene before crashes, etc. On the flip side Waymo only operates in specific areas, while Tesla lets anyone just go drive anywhere they want.

It's incredibly hard to make an apples to apples comparison. My point is that your commenting pointing out Waymo drives a million miles without at fault accidents isn't really the indictment of Tesla you seem to think it is.

Am I missing something in my analysis here?

Umm… Waymo is doing that without anybody in the driver’s seat. Tesla needs a human driver partner to get to that safety level.

 

[gsmith123]

Umm… Waymo is doing that without anybody in the driver’s seat. Tesla needs a human driver partner to get to that safety level.

Which I pointed out as one of the complicating factors here: "...drivers are attentive and intervene before crashes...".

 

[mrkalpakkam]

Hi all -

I've been using FSD for the last 8 months. And while I experience a fair amount of screw-ups and disengagements, I've also noticed how comfortable I'm getting using FSD on every drive. It occurred to me that we (rightly) put a heavy focus on where FSD needs to improve. But I think this can diminish the progress it's made over time. I take for granted all the situations it now handles routinely. Things that created disengagements in the past. And capabilities that - for the most part - are unknown to the average driver (maybe even the average Tesla driver!).

So over the last week, I saved and labeled clips of all the things FSD is doing right. I don't have a GoPro setup in my car so these are just dashcam clips. You'll have to take my word that FSD is engaged on each clip and I have not disengaged at all during these videos.

Let me know what you think. Despite its imperfections, FSD now handles many every day driving situations really well.

Video:

Nice video. Is this using HW4? Can you share lane change settings? Mine does lane changes quickly and it scares me.

 

[nicksp]

My 18 M3LR has full FSD capability. But would my car drive the same on fsd as the newer cars?

 

[gsmith123]

As of today, yes it would (once you've gotten your free upgrade to a HW3 computer).

At some point in the future it's probable that HW4 cars (and the HW4 cars with HD radar, which I think is only S/X so far) that have been delivered to customers as of today could perform better (thanks to the higher resolution + wider cameras giving more accurate perception).

And we also know Tesla is working on adding a front bumper camera as well, which presumably could benefit FSD performance. Especially short range parking lot navigation, precision parking, etc.

 

[Supcom]

Just returned from a 3200 mile trip with FSDb. Wonderful, low stress way to go. The only phantom braking was when the car gets to a reduced speed construction zone and hits the brakes hard. Not much fun when you're in heavy traffic. Thank you NHTSA. This was with 11.3.6. Hopefully, the newer versions, with the "keeping up with the flow of traffic" mode will temper this government mandated "safety" feature!

 

[gsmith123]

The maintaining speed for traffic flow works well. That said, construction zones are generally still a big weakness

 

[hawkin94]

Nice video. Is this using HW4? Can you share lane change settings? Mine does lane changes quickly and it scares me.

This is HW3 on a 2023 MYP. I usually drive on Average or Assertive, this video is probably a mix of both. I usually don't select "minimal lane changes" unless I'm on the highway, where I sometimes want to select speed-based lane changes on my own.

My only complaint with lane changes is that it sometimes tries to initiate what is obviously a tight change, and then swerves back into original lane when realizing it. Rather than waiting for a better opening. But all in all I think lane changes have improved a lot.

 

[hawkin94]

Saved more dashcam clips over the last few weeks of FSDb performing well. One thing I was struck by was how reliably it slows down safely for merging vehicles, including those that are essentially cutting me off.

Here's a quick compilation of those. FSDb was engaged (never disengaged) in all of these clips. This is another feature I've just become used to in daily driving.

 

[mgs333]

Saved more dashcam clips over the last few weeks of FSDb performing well. One thing I was struck by was how reliably it slows down safely for merging vehicles, including those that are essentially cutting me off.

Here's a quick compilation of those. FSDb was engaged (never disengaged) in all of these clips. This is another feature I've just become used to in daily driving.

In my car, if the car merging is already ahead of me, it will slow down appropriately mostly but when the car merging is somewhat even with me side-by-side the car pretends like it's not there at all and just continues driving at the same pace. If I was driving, I would either slow down or speed up to avoid contact or the merging car having to stop suddenly. In such cases, I have to take over pretty consistently.

 

[rlsd]

In my car, if the car merging is already ahead of me, it will slow down appropriately mostly but when the car merging is somewhat even with me side-by-side the car pretends like it's not there at all and just continues driving at the same pace. If I was driving, I would either slow down or speed up to avoid contact or the merging car having to stop suddenly. In such cases, I have to take over pretty consistently.

It would be nice that FSD could recognize and yield to other cars entering the lane, especially to the cars moving from shopping parkings during slow traffic. However there are many drivers don't treat FSD fairly. Yesterday one driver went passed my car from behind when FSD made a right turn to a single lane street. Last week a woman was using the phone and ran the stop sign at a 4 way stop intersection.

 

[Yelobird]

In my car, if the car merging is already ahead of me, it will slow down appropriately mostly but when the car merging is somewhat even with me side-by-side the car pretends like it's not there at all and just continues driving at the same pace. If I was driving, I would either slow down or speed up to avoid contact or the merging car having to stop suddenly. In such cases, I have to take over pretty consistently.

Not sure I see the error issue here. If they are merging while Next to your car as you state the merge mesh is Completely on the car merging. I would maintain proper speed in the same way personally. If they are Ahead of you (like the previous post) then yes you are responsible to allow a safe path of entry.

 

[mgs333]

Not sure I see the error issue here. If they are merging while Next to your car as you state the merge mesh is Completely on the car merging. I would maintain proper speed in the same way personally. If they are Ahead of you (like the previous post) then yes you are responsible to allow a safe path of entry.

I do agree I have the right of way vs merging traffic but regardless, if the merging car is driving straight into my side (which car is slightly ahead of the other is irrelevant at that point), I feel the car should take some action to avoid a collision. The car may very well do something at the last minute violently in an unexpected way but I do not want to wait to see.

 

[derotam]

Merging I think is always going to be difficult for any kind of autopilot type system as long as there are humans involved. It is a very dynamic environment and peoples feelings and egos get in the way of making rational decisions some times.

Generally the person in the non merging land has the right of way and has no duty to change their movement for the merging vehicle. The merging vehicle always has the duty to give way to the non merging traffic. People should however generally just do a natural zipper and evenly let people merge in...but that is not law. State laws vary widely on the relevant language also.