FSD - hands on wheel?

[Eno Deb]

Edit: I didn't see where the website says FSD is available now. Just that FSD hardware is present. Did you see that somewhere?

He probably means this, which appears on the order page. There is a disclaimer at the bottom of the page that the system needs "active supervision", but the feature description is clearly written in a way to suggest that "full self-driving capability" is available now (even though in reality it's just a re-badging of EAP features).

 

[santacameearly]

Yes, sir, Eno Deb. That is almost exactly what it said when I ordered, but I think it was $3k for AutoPilot and $5k for Full Self Drive. Had to order AutoPilot before you could order Full Self Drive.

 

[mrmage]

He probably means this, which appears on the order page. There is a disclaimer at the bottom of the page that the system needs "active supervision", but the feature description is clearly written in a way to suggest that "full self-driving capability" is available now (even though in reality it's just a re-badging of EAP features).

View attachment 415258

Oic, it does do the bullet points listed under the FSD section. Except for the summon from anywhere, which I'm still waiting for on my X. Maybe they'll have it by the time his car arrives.

What I'm really surprised about is that Tesla has listed FSD on city streets this year on the ordering page.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I'm not sure if you're trolling us or not but you're definitely not wrong. Calling the option Full Self Driving is deceptive.
If you're expecting hands free driving anytime soon you should return the car. You can always buy one again when it actually has FSD.
On the other hand it's very unlikely that anyone, including Tesla, is going to sell autonomous vehicles to consumers soon.

 

[sixela]

That video is there to demonstrate what the car does without human intervention. The hands off the steering wheel are a visual cue to prove to watchers there is no human intervention.

Nowhere does it claim the car is certified for hands-off driving to be legal.

I expect that the car is going to nag about supervision a couple of years after it's capable of full self driving in most environments, for (fairly valid) legal reasons.

“I should be able to choose to endanger myself” doesn't cut it since not supervising a car uncertified for L4 or L5 autonomous driving is also endangering others.

I wouldn't drive the car for a week and return it, if I were you, I'd change my order to remove FSD.

 

[diplomat33]

But from everything you guys are saying, this is nothing more than what they have had for years with AP.

No. If you buy FSD, the Autopilot that you get now is much more than AP1. You get the features on the website, like Navigate on Autopilot which does more than AP1. Later this year, Tesla will release the other features like "automatic city driving" and "traffic light recognition" like the website says. You will also get the new FSD computer which is built in house and is better than the old nvidia computer.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Later this year, Tesla will release the other features like "automatic city driving" and "traffic light recognition" like the website says. You will also get the new FSD computer which is built in house and is better than the old nvidia computer.

Three months maybe, six months definitely?
Are you serious? No one knows if or when those features will be released. People who bought FSD in 2016 have still gotten nothing. It’s fine if people want to gamble with their money but they should do it with full knowledge that they are gambling.

 

[mswlogo]

Expecting pickup this week, ordered with FSD.

For the purposes of this post, assume that a no-hands on wheel FSD Tesla will be safer than any other vehicle I drive.

In FSD / NOA, new hardware/latest software, are hands still required on the wheel on the highway?

Don't get to caught up in FSD today. A lot of us are very optimistic about it's future (possibly overly optimistic) but today there are LOTs of heated debates on how safe it is, even with your hands on the wheel.

You know the old saying, "I know enough to be dangerous". FSD is kind of like that right now It does quite a bit and can work very good in many situations. You can anticipate some obvious trouble spots. But you can't anticipate all of them and you can get overconfident and possibly looking at the Radio when one of those cases your supposed to be anticipating comes up.

Some folks will swear they drive 150 miles a day without issue. Others say they stopped using it. Some use it, concerned they will eventually get burned.

I think 99% owners will try it out extensively. Get comfortable with car and/or limit usage to very good conditions so you gradually learn it's strengths and weaknesses.

Personally I stopped "no confirmation NoA" first, now I stopped using NoA altogether. I only use Auto Pilot (maintain lane), only on the highway, only in good conditions (not to heavy a traffic flow). As much as I enjoy that, I still feel I'm gambling and may get burned. The most risky thing right now is it might suddenly brake hard. Folks are not sure if it's, bridges, shadows, misinterpreted traffic risks ahead or what. Some folks it does not bother, some folks it does not happen, some folks refuse to use it because of this. It is believed to be part of TACC (Traffic Aware Cruise Control, not the Auto Steer or NoA).

Of course you need to try it. Just be careful, enjoy it, but don't be to shocked it does some weird "unsafe" things occasionally. And we all hope it drastically improves ASAP (what needs improvement varies from person to person though).

 

[diplomat33]

Three months maybe, six months definitely?
Are you serious? No one knows if or when those features will be released. People who bought FSD in 2016 have still gotten nothing. It’s fine if people want to gamble with their money but they should do it with full knowledge that they are gambling.

I am just stating what the website says. Tesla is saying later this year. Sure, there could be delays but that is the deadline that Tesla is advertising right now so that is what I am going on.

Second, I would not call it gambling. Gambling is putting money on something with an uncertain payoff. You might double your money or you might lose everything. Unlike gambling, with FSD, we are buying a real product, we just don't know what the exact delivery date is. And to be clear, by "FSD", I mean the features on the website coming later this year, namely "traffic light recognition" and "automatic city driving". Those are real features that we will get, it's matter of when not if.

 

[Kant.Ing]

When FSD becomes real, Tesla has to throw in an AD&D coverage, to admit liability and to encourage people to use FSD hands off. But if the driver or the passenger chicken out or touch the wheel any time during the FSD drive, the insurance is revoked for the drive.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I am just stating what the website says. Tesla is saying later this year. Sure, there could be delays but that is the deadline that Tesla is advertising right now so that is what I am going on.

Second, I would not call it gambling. Gambling is putting money on something with an uncertain payoff. You might double your money or you might lose everything. Unlike gambling, with FSD, we are buying a real product, we just don't know what the exact delivery date is. And to be clear, by "FSD", I mean the features on the website coming later this year, namely "traffic light recognition" and "automatic city driving". Those are real features that we will get, it's matter of when not if.

I don't FSD is "very far away". Considering all the companies, including Tesla, that have working FSD prototypes, I say we are 2-3 years away from FSD in commercially available vehicles. I also think that next year, Tesla will probably release some small partial FSD features via over the air updates.

This was nearly two years ago and yet there are have been no FSD features released. It's fine to be optimistic but it should be obvious to everyone by now that the Tesla's website and public statements are not a reliable source for information about FSD.

 

[diplomat33]

This was nearly two years ago and yet there are have been no FSD features released. It's fine to be optimistic but it should be obvious to everyone by now that the Tesla's website and public statements are not a reliable source for information about FSD.

To be fair though, that comment was my personal prediction, not a quote from the Tesla website or any public statement. Not sure how my personal opinion is proof that Tesla's FSD timeline cannot be trusted?

Again, to be clear, I am not saying that the "coming later this year" is written in stone. There could be delays of course. But this is a concrete timeline that Tesla is giving us that they never gave us before so I think it has a bit more weight than my personal prediction.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Again, to be clear, I am not saying that the "coming later this year" is written in stone.

Later this year, Tesla will release the other features like "automatic city driving" and "traffic light recognition" like the website says.

I'm not trying to be super pedantic but your post has zero context about the number of times Tesla has missed deadlines related to AP and FSD.

 

[diplomat33]

I'm not trying to be super pedantic but your post has zero context about the number of times Tesla has missed deadlines related to AP and FSD.

Fair enough. I probably should have chosen my words more carefully.

 

[santacameearly]

So it basically does what the website said when I ordered. On ramp to off ramp, NoA. Tested it today, excited about the potential.

 

[boonedocks]

I am just stating what the website says. Tesla is saying later this year. Sure, there could be delays but that is the deadline that Tesla is advertising right now so that is what I am going on.

Second, I would not call it gambling. Gambling is putting money on something with an uncertain payoff. You might double your money or you might lose everything. Unlike gambling, with FSD, we are buying a real product, we just don't know what the exact delivery date is. And to be clear, by "FSD", I mean the features on the website coming later this year, namely "traffic light recognition" and "automatic city driving". Those are real features that we will get, it's matter of when not if.

" Gambling is putting money on something with an uncertain payoff."

You mean like some of us that paid for FSD 3+ years ago and have since sold our cars and received -0- value and -0- resale value from Tesla for? That was a 100% gamble loss.

NOW Tesla doesn't give you the option to gamble. If you want the equivalent to what used to be EAP you HAVE to buy FSD. At least for new orders it is a guarantee that you will at worse actually get what works the day you take delivery.

 

[diplomat33]

" Gambling is putting money on something with an uncertain payoff."

You mean like some of us that paid for FSD 3+ years ago and have since sold our cars and received -0- value and -0- resale value from Tesla for? That was a 100% gamble loss.

it was only a "100% gamble loss" because they gave up too soon. Like folding a winning hand in poker. They gave up before FSD arrived. FSD features are definitely coming. It's just a matter of when not if. If you keep your car, you will get FSD.

NOW Tesla doesn't give you the option to gamble. If you want the equivalent to what used to be EAP you HAVE to buy FSD. At least for new orders it is a guarantee that you will at worse actually get what works the day you take delivery.

That's because Tesla is closer now to delivering the remaining FSD features.

 

[banned-66611]

The silly thing is they have the internal camera in the Model 3, they could use gaze tracking to go hands-free like other manufacturers do.

 

[diplomat33]

The silly thing is they have the internal camera in the Model 3, they could use gaze tracking to go hands-free like other manufacturers do.

Yeah, I am a bit surprised that Tesla is not interested in doing that. The hardware is there. The software would not be that hard to do. In fact, I think the software already exists out there that Tesla could use. I could be wrong but based on the interview that Elon did awhile back, it seems like a personal decision by Elon who is stubbornly sticking to doing things his way. He wants to get to true full self-driving where driver attention is irrelevant and does not want to be bothered with what he thinks is an intermediary step. Personally, as a Model 3 owner, I would love it if Tesla implemented a camera based driver attention system because it would allow me to go hands free now in those scenarios where AP can handle things.

 

[Eno Deb]

The silly thing is they have the internal camera in the Model 3, they could use gaze tracking to go hands-free like other manufacturers do.

The existing camera may not be suitable for that. The driver attention camera used by Cadillac uses an IR camera (and IR illumination) with a narrow field of view directly in front of the driver. The Model 3 camera has a wider field of view to capture the entire cabin interior and is off to the side of the driver (and there is no IR illumination).