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Fuel Price Check $$$
- Thread starter dietereater
- Start date
Solar panel power price check $0.00
I have some affection for that answer although it is a little more complicated than that. Installing solar panels kinda means you are prepaying for your power and it is roughly 5-10 years before you save enough to recoup the installation costs.
Even buying a hybrid car with very high gas mileage or an EV can be similar although it is so complicated because there are very few almost none ICE vs EV cars that are directly comparable and EV's are dropping in price and cheaper to maintain, etc.
Ha. Back in 2008 the SO and I looked at Solar Panels. $8k per kW on the roof, inverters and all, and 9 kW to max out NJ's rules.
At that time, at that place: $15K grant from the State of NJ; $15K rebate on taxes from the Feds (30% of the remainder.)
For every MW-hr of energy generated (not delivered to the utility, just generated), one would get something called an SREC, Solar Renewable Energy Credit. These are salable on the GATS system, run by pjm. We were, and are, generating about 12 MW-hr's a year. Initial value of the SRECs were $600 a pop, so that was $7200/year in subsidy. We're still getting them, but the value (as expected) has declined to around $200/SREC, for about $2400 a year.
On top of all that, we got, by State Statute, Net Metering. Which effectively means out electricity bill is zeroed out.
Now for the fun. After all the rebates and such back then, we had a $42,000 cost. Take out a Home Improvement Loan for the amount, which is at Mortgage Rates. Figure out the monthly payment.
Look at the monthly electricity bill that we're no longer paying. That non-existent bill is about 3/2 of the loan payment. Cash flow positive! Yea!
Add in the SRECs and it's just silly. The cost of the system, hardware and all, was paid off in five years.
That was then, this is now. I've checked: A new system, making the same amount of energy per year, costs $20k or so. Electricity has gotten more expensive, not less. So.. In terms of cash flow, one is positive from Day One. And payoff is roughly five years out.
Now, as part of the NJ initiative, it was required that the installers put a 15-year warranty on the installation. And that's held. In a couple of years, the warranty will run out. At some point in the future, then, we'll need to replace something-or-other that'll go bad. But the system is chugging right along.
My daily cost of electricity? Near zero, even with the Teslas. Long term? Possibly, a couple of cents per kW-hr. But we've had nearly 10 years of SREC payments after the system was paid off. Um. That'll pay for the new system, when and if it needs to come around.
At that time, at that place: $15K grant from the State of NJ; $15K rebate on taxes from the Feds (30% of the remainder.)
For every MW-hr of energy generated (not delivered to the utility, just generated), one would get something called an SREC, Solar Renewable Energy Credit. These are salable on the GATS system, run by pjm. We were, and are, generating about 12 MW-hr's a year. Initial value of the SRECs were $600 a pop, so that was $7200/year in subsidy. We're still getting them, but the value (as expected) has declined to around $200/SREC, for about $2400 a year.
On top of all that, we got, by State Statute, Net Metering. Which effectively means out electricity bill is zeroed out.
Now for the fun. After all the rebates and such back then, we had a $42,000 cost. Take out a Home Improvement Loan for the amount, which is at Mortgage Rates. Figure out the monthly payment.
Look at the monthly electricity bill that we're no longer paying. That non-existent bill is about 3/2 of the loan payment. Cash flow positive! Yea!
Add in the SRECs and it's just silly. The cost of the system, hardware and all, was paid off in five years.
That was then, this is now. I've checked: A new system, making the same amount of energy per year, costs $20k or so. Electricity has gotten more expensive, not less. So.. In terms of cash flow, one is positive from Day One. And payoff is roughly five years out.
Now, as part of the NJ initiative, it was required that the installers put a 15-year warranty on the installation. And that's held. In a couple of years, the warranty will run out. At some point in the future, then, we'll need to replace something-or-other that'll go bad. But the system is chugging right along.
My daily cost of electricity? Near zero, even with the Teslas. Long term? Possibly, a couple of cents per kW-hr. But we've had nearly 10 years of SREC payments after the system was paid off. Um. That'll pay for the new system, when and if it needs to come around.
This is true, although the numbers are a little different here (this thread is in the Australia forum) - generally more expensive power, less expensive solar panels and a generally good solar resource (Melbourne is the southernmost major city and is at an equivalent latitude to roughly San Francisco).
My solar panels were a 2 year pay back, 5 years ago. Solar works very efficiently in my small part of the planet.
Blue heaven
Fair Dinkum Tesla
5-10 years payback? Solar installations in the USA must still be expensive. Try 2-4 years in Australia.
What is this “fuel” of which you speak?
I think the best way to look at this is the case of charging only off excess solar, which is what I do. In that situation, you can ignore the capital cost of the solar and just consider the FIT revenue foregone by directing that solar to your car instead of the grid. Because that is the counterfactual - if you did not have an EV to which that solar production could be directed, it would be going to the grid, and hence effectively “wasted” except for the FIT you would receive. The counterfactual is not having no solar at all.
My FIT is 2c/kWh, so that is the cost for me to charge my car. A 0-80% charge therefore costs $1.20 or 0.3 cents per km.
It's that stuff that powers the ships and trucks that deliver everything you buy. And the service vehicles used by the tradies that keep your lights on, your water running, your toilet flushing, your family housed etc. And the older vehicles used by the low wage essential workers who keep your hospitals clean, your shop shelves stocked, your burger cravings satisfied etc.
That stuff isn't changing anytime soon, so it's still a matter of deep social concern. Just not really in this forum.
But if you use the capital cost of the solar panels (including the cost of money used to fund the solar array) amortised over its lifetime on a per kWh basis plus add the lost Feed in tariff....
The per litre fuel costs incorporates the whole cost to bowser in its price
Expensive. 7 eleven app 181.9. And i purchased the full $150
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I’ve given up accounting for FIT. It’s now too small to be a concern or benefit. When I installed my system it was around 20c, and that was a big part in recovering the purchase cost
Yes , in the context of EV electrical consumption its a nothing burger.
20,000 km @ 170Wh/km = 3400 kWh. Assuming all from solar and Fit at $0.076 = $260 per year.
However once you add in the amortised capital cost + cost of the money which could have been invested elsewhere it could be - for someone contemplating installing solar for instance.
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You clearly capped it a few days ago. I rarely drive the car and dont follow prices.
It was the best in Brisbane and I note Sydney is hovering around $2.20. But kudos to you. Great job!
Edit; I purchased the full 150L and its diesel
Ill just nick over to Dalyeupp WA and lock in 189.5 diesel and then do a short trip to U91 Robina QLD 173.9
Unfortunately I still have 6 diesel ICE cars and a Ride on mower which uses U91.
Always a laugh when I arrive at a Dino juice station to fill up the jerry cans
noddy@teamterm
Team Terminal
My yacht still has a small inboard diesel. When I pull up at a petrol station to get 10 litres of diesel in a small carry can, I am invariably asked what it is for. I tell them it is for a mate in his ICE 4wd who has run out of juice just down the road near the solar farm.
Zoltrix77
Member
They are expensive, installed cost in Australia is around AUD$1 a watt or USD$0.65. There are all sorts of bullshit permits you need in the US too, I have heard figures around USD$3-5 per watt!!!!! Seriously, solar is so obvious in Australia, even with tiny FiTs.
Zoltrix77
Member
Just too add to this, I am still happy to throw petrol money into my specialist weekend cars at any price. Most people who are not car nuts however, are mad if they do not at least sum up an EV.
