Full beam annoyance

[Jandd45]

I'm in Switzerland, driving down an insanely windy road at night. Push the lever down which seems to set it to auto-full beam which I imagine switches on full beam when you need it. But nooooo!! There was no full beam, couldn't see where I was going, couldn't find how to manually override it , only option was to pull lever towards me and hold on to it, which is not ideal on hairpins in the dark where I could do with two hands on the steering wheel.
Later on, on straight roads with street lighting, when it wasn't too important the full beam decided to switch on automatically.
Am I missing something about how full beam works? Is there a manual override?

 

[jrweiss98020]

You have to turn on the high/full beams by pushing the left stalk forward once. You will then see the high beam icon with an A in the middle - blue when actually on, gray when armed but off.

 

[DaveRZ]

Turn off the "Auto high beams" option in the lighting menu. Its designed to switch automatically between high/full and low as oncoming cars pass, however I've found it doesn't work all that well if there's lights shining back at you (from oncoming cars, or your own lights reflecting back at you)

Turning off the "auto" function will make your lights work like normal. Push the stalk forward and high/full beams will turn on.

 

[Jeeves]

Am I missing something about how full beam works?

No, the auto is crap on euro roads. Turn it off as others suggest. Hopefully auto will improve. Seems self-evident that if the driver pushes them stalk forward, then full beam should come on immediately.

 

[WilliamG]

I'm in Switzerland, driving down an insanely windy road at night. Push the lever down which seems to set it to auto-full beam which I imagine switches on full beam when you need it. But nooooo!! There was no full beam, couldn't see where I was going, couldn't find how to manually override it , only option was to pull lever towards me and hold on to it, which is not ideal on hairpins in the dark where I could do with two hands on the steering wheel.
Later on, on straight roads with street lighting, when it wasn't too important the full beam decided to switch on automatically.
Am I missing something about how full beam works? Is there a manual override?

This is a case of needing to read the lights section of the manual. It's because you have auto high beams set to ON in the Lights menu. So when you push the stalk forward it will show the "A" on the screen and the car will determine when to turn on the high beams. You need to turn that off to have manual control like in a "regular" car/situation.

 

[Uncle Don]

The manual is your friend.

 

[Magnets!]

I tried auto beams for one evening, decided to shut them off and have never used again. Not worth it unless they've redone their software.

 

[WilliamG]

I tried auto beams for one evening, decided to shut them off and have never used again. Not worth it unless they've redone their software.

Yep, not a fan here either. I had them on my Golf R and they were much better than the Tesla is.

 

[Knightshade]

Auto seems to work fine for me... yes they shut off (drop to regular) if they see lights from a car coming the other way- that's the point of the feature

 

[JulienW]

OP is driving in Switzerland so could be lots of snow reflecting. Although I live in Atlanta so what do I know about snow.

 

[strykeroz]

Auto seems to work fine for me... yes they shut off (drop to regular) if they see lights from a car coming the other way- that's the point of the feature

Which would be nice if it didn't drop the lights for street lighting, or just some road surfaces. It didn't last the full first night of ownership with me either. I get the point - it's just not very good at it.
Some day it will improve though I have faith, in the same way I leave the wipers on auto now but couldn't initially.

 

[Plug-n-Play]

Auto seems to work fine for me... yes they shut off (drop to regular) if they see lights from a car coming the other way- that's the point of the feature

Oh that part definitely works. The problem is the auto-off gets triggered by a whole bunch of other things that you don't want it to. It also has no time threshold in between actions - I've had the thing flicker on and off a few times in succession as I drove past some roadside reflectors.

 

[ilyak]

Auto seems to work fine for me... yes they shut off (drop to regular) if they see lights from a car coming the other way- that's the point of the feature

While that is, indeed, the point of the feature, it doesn't work well. High beams often shut off too late or fail to shut off - especially when following another car at some distance or coming up on a gentle curve. They also overzealously shut off for anything sufficiently reflective, such as street signs and barrier markers; sometimes even lane reflectors set mine off. Finally, they take a tad too long to turn back on after a car passes you going in the other direction.
The industry-standard implementation that uses a combination of lidar and radar returns currently works much better than Tesla's vision-based implementation, unfortunately.

 

[Knightshade]

The industry-standard implementation that uses a combination of lidar and radar returns currently works much better than Tesla's vision-based implementation, unfortunately.

What other consumer vehicles use lidar for this function? Last I heard nobody had lidar on any consumer cars at all because cost is insanely high- just things like fleet/test vehicles.

I'm also kinda unclear how radar helps with detecting oncoming or reflected light since it can't see visible light.


So your suggestion "industry standard" is to use who two things doesn't seem to be accurate.


Far as I know the "industry standard" is cameras. Usually fewer of them than Tesla uses.


https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/how-it-works-automatic-and-adaptive-headlights

The system uses a forward-facing camera, usually mounted in or near the rearview mirror. The camera detects lights – not just oncoming headlights but also taillights of vehicles ahead, as well as streetlights or other illumination that indicates the driver is in the city and doesn’t need high-beams. As soon as other lights are detected, the system turns the high-beam headlights off, and then switches them back on again once the light disappears.

How do automatic high-beam systems work?

Automatic high-beam systems depend on a forward-looking camera mounted in the rearview mirror. The camera detects various forms of lights – including headlights, tail lights and ambient light from cities. The system then crunches that information to determine when to have the high beams on.

Auto High-Beam System
Using a camera mounted to the inside of the windshield, this system detects
light sources ahead of the vehicle. Depending on the light source, the system
automatically switches the headlights to high beam for optimal visibility at night.

(bold added-to make it clear cameras seem to be the thing everyone actually uses)

 

[ilyak]

What other consumer vehicles use lidar for this function? Last I heard nobody had lidar on any consumer cars at all because cost is insanely high- just things like fleet/test vehicles.

I'm also kinda unclear how radar helps with detecting oncoming or reflected light since it can't see visible light.


So your suggestion "industry standard" is to use who two things doesn't seem to be accurate.


Far as I know the "industry standard" is cameras. Usually fewer of them than Tesla uses.


How It Works: Automatic and adaptive headlights




How do automatic high-beam systems work?







(bold added-to make it clear cameras seem to be the thing everyone actually uses)

I'm not talking about the use of LIDAR to generate a 3D map of the surroundings. I am referring to a simple near infrared laser used on many consumer cars to measure distance and aid emergency braking and auto high beam functions. Here's an example from Mazda: The Radar, Laser and Cameras on Your Mazda - Meet i-ACTIVSENSE - Velocity Mazda Blog

Then again, regardless of the technology behind these systems, other manufacturers' implementations function much better that Tesla's, at least in my experience. I've never had to touch the high beam controls on my old Audi Allroad or my wife's Mazda CX-5, on my Model 3 I have to fiddle with them every time I use high beams.

 

[Knightshade]

I'm not talking about the use of LIDAR to generate a 3D map of the surroundings. I am referring to a simple near infrared laser used on many consumer cars to measure distance and aid emergency braking and auto high beam functions. Here's an example from Mazda: The Radar, Laser and Cameras on Your Mazda - Meet i-ACTIVSENSE - Velocity Mazda Blog

Then again, regardless of the technology behind these systems, other manufacturers' implementations function much better that Tesla's, at least in my experience. I've never had to touch the high beam controls on my old Audi Allroad or my wife's Mazda CX-5, on my Model 3 I have to fiddle with them every time I use high beams.

But even your own link contradicts your claims...

It cites radar being used only for active cruise control- not lights.

It cites lasers being used for emergency braking- not lights.

Interestingly, one feature not even listed at your link?

Auto high beams.


Here's a page on THAT feature-
Mazda 3 Owners Manual - High Beam Control System (HBC) - i-ACTIVSENSE

The High Beam Control System (HBC) determines the conditions in front of the vehicle using the Forward Sensing Camera

So again- far as I can tell, nobody uses lidar or radar for this function (and I'm not sure it'd ever make any sense to use either for this) let alone it being an industry standard.

Also worth nothing- they specifically mention the feature might not work well in...exactly the conditions your Tesla is giving you trouble-

NOTE The timing in which the system switches the headlights changes under the following conditions. If the system does not switch the headlights appropriately, manually switch between high and low beams according to the visibility as well as road and traffic conditions.

When there are sources of light in the area such as street lamps, illuminated signboards, and traffic signals.
When there are reflective objects in the surrounding area such as reflective plates and signs.
When visibility is reduced under rain, snow and foggy conditions.
When driving on roads with sharp turn or hilly terrain.
When the headlights/rear lamps of vehicles in front of you or in the opposite lane are dim or not illuminated.
When there is sufficient darkness such as at dawn or dusk.
When the luggage compartment is loaded with heavy objects or the rear passenger seats are occupied.
When visibility is reduced due to a vehicle in front of you spraying water from its tires onto your windshield.

 

[ilyak]

But even your own link contradicts your claims...

It cites radar being used only for active cruise control- not lights.

It cites lasers being used for emergency braking- not lights.

Interestingly, one feature not even listed at your link?

Auto high beams.


Here's a page on THAT feature-
Mazda 3 Owners Manual - High Beam Control System (HBC) - i-ACTIVSENSE




So again- far as I can tell, nobody uses lidar or radar for this function (and I'm not sure it'd ever make any sense to use either for this) let alone it being an industry standard.

Also worth nothing- they specifically mention the feature might not work well in...exactly the conditions your Tesla is giving you trouble-

You are demonstrating a classic case of a strawman argument, and I'm not a fan of arguing for the sake of aguing itself. I'll make my point one more time and then I am out: in the end, it does not matter to consumers what kind of technology is used to power a feature - LIDAR, vision, radar, or Harry-goddamn-Potter himself penetrating the darkness with his magic wand to find another car and dim the lights. All that matters is how well the feature performs. In my personal experience, Tesla's implementation performs substantially worse than implementations from other automakers whose cars I have driven.

 

[Knightshade]

You are demonstrating a classic case of a strawman argument

You don't appear to understand what that term means- because I'm doing nothing like that.

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

Except in this case you did present the argument I'm refuting.

Here it is again since you seem to have forgotten-

The industry-standard implementation that uses a combination of lidar and radar returns currently works much better than Tesla's vision-based implementation, unfortunately.

And I've provided numerous sources proving it incorrect- even pointing out the one source you provided does not support your own claim.

Your entire premise was Teslas system didn't work well because they didn't use the "industry standard" methods of LIDAR and RADAR to activate it.

I pointed out that was not only not the industry standard, but that nobody appears to use those things for this feature (and I'm not sure you even COULD use them- radar especially)

Then I provided, repeatedly, evidence the actual industry standard was a camera.

The same thing Tesla uses.

Y All that matters is how well the feature performs. In my personal experience, Tesla's implementation performs substantially worse than implementations from other automakers whose cars I have driven.

Then you maybe should've stuck to that instead of making up imaginary standards that don't exist as the "cause" of the issue


I certainly can't debate your personal experience.

Mine doesn't match it- but I also don't drive places where there's commonly snow on the ground reflecting light and you (and another NY resident, and one from Switzerland- who also seem to have issues) likely do.

Personally my primary use of the auto high beams is the ~10 minute drive through "the country" between my house and the interstate- or similar length drive on similar rural, unlit, roads between my house and the nearest actual town and the feature seems to work great there in well over a year of use.... not significantly better or worse than any other car I've driven.

If you want a camera driven feature that IS worse (though not nearly as worse as it used to be) and actually does buck industry standards it's the wipers.

The industry uses a real rain sensor- tesla uses the camera.

Teslas isn't as good. It used to be horrific now it's at least usable, but still noticeably inferior.... still, the steady improvement is a good sign it might be as good or better some day.

 

[Magnets!]

Auto seems to work fine for me... yes they shut off (drop to regular) if they see lights from a car coming the other way- that's the point of the feature

In my experience, too slow to react to oncoming cars and mistakes reflections from road signs as oncoming cars and dims the lights.

 

[holmgang]

the auto highbeam is one of the less intuitive designs of the car. you shouldnt need to enable it in the menu, AND then control it with the stalk using another common lever operation. putting it on the stalk implies it should be toggled regularly, which of course it should not be (if well implemented).

enabling/disabling auto high beams should just be a menu item. thats it.

the efficacy i havent found well. PARTICULARLY with truckers coming from the opposite direction. they come into the line of the sight of the high beams, before their own headlights are detected by the car (or sometimes their headlights are obscured by median barriers).

the system also probably gets tricked by reflections from signage and wet/reflective roads.

basically its best used on dark country roads.

***

best of these light system ive used was on a mid-range rental vauxhall. the light was fully matrix/beam-forming, and it was dead on accurate. it basically carved out an outline of the cars ahead, and lit up everything else around it. amazing stuff on a pedestrian car.