Full Tax Credit Pointless

[happyzod]

I see. So your argument is that they should raise funds and take a loss, so that you can then pay what you now believe was a fair price.

That’s great logic.

My argument is that we shouldn't feel sorry for Tesla or be rooting for them because they wouldn't be in business.

 

[M3 2018]

I don’t think Tesla needs to do anything for you. Sell the car if you don’t like it.

It's not fair. Bait and switch / ploy tactics I thought I was avoiding by buying from Tesla.
Tesla should be fair with early adopters more so than any other group of buyers.

 

[Matt L]

My argument is that we shouldn't feel sorry for Tesla or be rooting for them because they wouldn't be in business.

You do realize that companies go out of business right? Just because you own a car doesn’t mean the company that sold it to you will always be there to support it.

 

[Matt L]

It's not fair. Bait and switch / ploy tactics I thought I was avoiding by buying from Tesla.
Tesla should be fair with early adopters more so than any other group of buyers.

“Fair”? You got what you paid for. Why do you think you are owed more?

We paid for their rampup. No one forced us to do that.

“Fair” is one of the most entitled words used.

 

[happyzod]

You do realize that companies go out of business right? Just because you own a car doesn’t mean the company that sold it to you will always be there to support it.

And Tesla is not going to go out of business since it has access to the capital markets. No one should feel like Tesla needed those credits to stay in business. They absolutely did not.

 

[Uncle Paul]

I believe what makes this price reduction hard to swallow is that many of us were simply being greedy.

We wanted to order the car when WE could get the special limited time tax credit. WE saw this as a way to game the system and get a cool car for less than others. WE lined up and elbowed our way forward in line to make sure we got the full tax credit and that Tesla would deliver our cars before the deadline.

We were kinda proud about pulling a fast one and getting a great deal...but then Tesla began to discount. Forever Tesla has had a policy of everyone paying the same price. Nobody, even Elon and his family members had to pay full price to get a car. People all over the world paid the same prices, after adjusting for local taxes regulations and transportation costs.

Now that Tesla has revised its pricing to once again level the prices people need to pay, the anguish is evident.

 

[Matt L]

And Tesla is not going to go out of business since it has access to the capital markets. No one should feel like Tesla needed those credits to stay in business. They absolutely did not

And Tesla is not going to go out of business since it has access to the capital markets. No one should feel like Tesla needed those credits to stay in business. They absolutely did not.

you are missing a huge point, without the credits, there would be no model 3. Even with the credits, there is still real risk they don’t make it.

 

[happyzod]

I believe what makes this price reduction hard to swallow is that many of us were simply being greedy.

We wanted to order the car when WE could get the special limited time tax credit. WE saw this as a way to game the system and get a cool car for less than others. WE lined up and elbowed our way forward in line to make sure we got the full tax credit and that Tesla would deliver our cars before the deadline.

We were kinda proud about pulling a fast one and getting a great deal...but then Tesla began to discount. Forever Tesla has had a policy of everyone paying the same price. Nobody, even Elon and his family members had to pay full price to get a car. People all over the world paid the same prices, after adjusting for local taxes regulations and transportation costs.

Now that Tesla has revised its pricing to once again level the prices people need to pay, the anguish is evident.

Sorry but your logic is horrible and you are blaming the owners why?

-Tesla was the one marketing the tax credit heavily.
-The price of the current car is $2250 less even AFTER factoring in the tax credit. So going by your philosophy that everyone needs to pay the same price, they should be refunding buyers in 2018?

 

[happyzod]

you are missing a huge point, without the credits, there would be no model 3. Even with the credits, there is still real risk they don’t make it.

That doesn't make sense. They still sold the model 3 in China. They sold the model 3 in Europe. In Canada. Tax credits were not needed there. Tesla sold 150,000 cars last year? That's about 1 billion dollars in credits. Remember, the Saudi's were willing to give Tesla 5 billion dollars in exchange for shares.

Edit: Saudi's were willing to give Tesla 2 billion for a 5% stake. Not 5 billion.

 

[Matt L]

That doesn't make sense. They still sold the model 3 in China. They sold the model 3 in Europe. In Canada. Tax credits were not needed there. Tesla sold 150,000 cars last year? That's about 1 billion dollars in credits. Remember, the Saudi's were willing to give Tesla 5 billion dollars in exchange for shares.

Ok man. I’m not going to debate it all night. The tax credits were somewhere north of $2B worth of worth to them. That’s significant.

At any rate, whatever you think Tesla owes you for being a fool, good luck at getting it.

 

[Fair Verona]

It _became_ about giving consumers cheaper cars when Tesla heavily marketed their higher-than-expected priced cars to potential customers as affordable under the tax credit, hyping the cost savings throughout their website and configurator to justify purchases they badly needed, for cars they admitted were priced higher than competitors, only to pull the rug out in 2019. Its become clear the plan all along was harvest the tax credit to themselves, unless they make right by the owners by offering them a consolation.

I remember they were hyping people get into the tax savings in Dec 2018. They didnt lower the price to get sales - they spoke about the final days of the tax savings.

Now the plan was clearly to take that profit and drop the prices for the next batch of consumers, devaluing the consumers' cars in the process.

Someone said it well - they effectively transferred the tax benefits from consumers to themselves. Gotta love capitalists.

This - this is the thing that makes me feel annoyed. I want Tesla to survive and make a profit and I don't want any sort of recompense, extra benefit or refund.

I just have a little bit of a problem with the way they went about how they used the full tax credit to lure earlier purchases when it really didn't make a difference when your purchase. I know it's laughable to expect them to say anything like this but saying "you won't benefit financially as we're going to adjust prices, but please consider buying before the end of 2018 as this will help the company turn profit and stay viable" would have been a more accurate statement.

 

[Fair Verona]

I believe what makes this price reduction hard to swallow is that many of us were simply being greedy.

We wanted to order the car when WE could get the special limited time tax credit. WE saw this as a way to game the system and get a cool car for less than others. WE lined up and elbowed our way forward in line to make sure we got the full tax credit and that Tesla would deliver our cars before the deadline.

Now that Tesla has revised its pricing to once again level the prices people need to pay, the anguish is evident.

I think what gets to people is firstly, it's not the same price. When you apply the tax from 2018 vs now, the car is still cheaper. And yes, of course many people were acting out of 'greed'; if you see a chance to legally benefit from something, you can't blame people for wanting to do it. It's not called an 'incentive' for nothing.

I also think that they need to be careful that this doesn't actually cause deterrence for their next launch. The last thing they want is everyone to be hesitant to run out and purchase the Model Y straight off the bat for fear that it'll be cheaper in a year's time. And yes, there will always be people who will pay premium to be the first to get something new, but it's not an iPhone and we're talking thousands of dollars. I guarantee in hindsight many people who bought the M3 in 2018 would have chosen to wait if they'd known what would eventuate.

 

[turtlesz]

I think what gets to people is firstly, it's not the same price. When you apply the tax from 2018 vs now, the car is still cheaper. And yes, of course many people were acting out of 'greed'; if you see a chance to legally benefit from something, you can't blame people for wanting to do it. It's not called an 'incentive' for nothing.

I also think that they need to be careful that this doesn't actually cause deterrence for their next launch. The last thing they want is everyone to be hesitant to run out and purchase the Model Y straight off the bat for fear that it'll be cheaper in a year's time. And yes, there will always be people who will pay premium to be the first to get something new, but it's not an iPhone and we're talking thousands of dollars. I guarantee in hindsight many people who bought the M3 in 2018 would have chosen to wait if they'd known what would eventuate.

I would have waited too if they would have dropped the prices for 2019. I still don't understand the reasoning for their drops and don't think anyone besides Teslas highest up exec know the true story. It seems the 35K Model was supposed to be celebrated as a huge accomplishment but reducing all prices throughout makes no sense which has led a significant portion of current owners to be upset. To me it confirms weak demand for the Model 3. Elon kept making references on how dire the situation was with Tesla and how important it was for them to have healthy margins on cars for the success of Tesla. They could have introduced the SR Model 3 without PUP and everyone would be happy if things were well with Tesla. Softening demand would be only explanation to cut prices across the board because if the car was selling in higher trim levels they would hold those prices so they can keep those profit margins and turn profitable for the quarter. Closing the stores + Elon stating Q1 wont be profitable + drops across the board makes me think Teslas situation is not all that rosy as us fans/supporters would like to believe.

 

[SergeyUser]

There is a good chance for Tesla would have failed already without Federal Tax credits (given EM himself admitted that Tesla was close to bankruptcy in 2018). So whatever they are doing in terms of price cuts, etc. is fine, as they obviously have to keep enough demand for their cars. So that was the reason for the program, to allow companies like Tesla to succeed. It is Ok to hurt early adopters in the process, most of them will be Ok with that.

 

[cybergates]

For a car that was out for a year and a half before you bought it, I wouldn't quite say you were an early adopter. But you're not comparing apples to apples. If you bought EAP, that package doesn't exist anymore.

Bottom line is we all bought the car at the time because we thought it was worth the money we paid for what we got. The only time I would be really upset is if I bought it like a week or two before this announcement and had not yet received the car (honestly I don't know if people in these situations get discounts or not).

true they did change the autopilot definition. I went ahead and bought the FSD at 3K yesterday. Now it only seems like a 3K difference in price for a FSD+Autopilot AWD Model 3 (when the include the 7500 tax credit vs. 3750). Feels a bit Better than a 6K drop and I did get to enjoy the car for few more months

 

[Shygar]

true they did change the autopilot definition. I went ahead and bought the FSD at 3K yesterday. Now it only seems like a 3K difference in price for a FSD+Autopilot AWD Model 3 (when the include the 7500 tax credit vs. 3750). Feels a bit Better than a 6K drop and I did get to enjoy the car for few more months

It should have been a $2k upgrade for FSD if you already had eap

 

[chadever]

Time is money.

In the old days, if you want a cell phone, you would pay a lot for a big heavy brick-size cell phone.

If you could wait, you could get a lighter, smaller, cuter, and more powerful cell phone.

It's the premium of not waiting.

I have no regret for paying more to access what I need then and not waiting for it.

I'm still waiting. My car smells of rotten protein and I don't even want to drive it anymore.

Sure, I'll save a few thousand dollars, but was/is t woth it?

 

[Uncle Paul]

I saw similar posts during the housing inflation and resultant crash.

People were greatly overextending thems selves, buying luxury housing and/or multiple houses. The prices were rising so fast that they made more money on house appreciation than in their paychecks. Then they would crank their houses with 2nd mortages to purchase pools, motorhomes, luxury vacations, new cars, fresh wardrobes or invest in the stock market or gold.

When it all came crashing down the posted how unfair it was. Many walked away from their mortages and stuck it to the lenders. Our government needed to step in and wash all these loans, causing a tremendous increase in our national debt.

Car prices also vary. For a while, during the gas crisis, people were paying huge prices for tiny fuel efficient cars, and selling their old larger station wagons and full sized Buicks for pennies on the dollar. Now we have dumped all our efficient commuter cars for gas guzzling SUVs and Pickups.

Guess my point is that the prices of most all things vary from time to time, and it is not appropriate to think you can go back in time and buy an item at the old price.

 

[CarterStC]

Read about tax inference on the internet and then apply it to a credit and you'll understand how Tesla essentially captured all the credits by their pricing my model. I tried to inform buyers about this last year but I was laughed out of the forum my the fanbois.

It was obvious by the $9k on the LR battery. Still happy with my purchase though, I made the decision knowingly.

 

[mswlogo]

It was obvious to me from day one they would offset the price as tax credits expired. No brainer.

We want Tesla to succeed !!!