Gen 3 sharing does not work as hoped

[holeydonut]

I sure would love to talk to the tesla engineers on this. My guess is they may have not put this through much testing, since
my guess is I might be the first person trying this is the real world residential, but I could be wrong.
There example does not touch on technically, should it act as I am expecting, or is the gen 3 just dumb logic with no
communications between the units. Even with I turned on the other 2 units, it still forced them to max 33 amps, even with only one plugged it.

This may be the only instance in my history of TMC where my experience worked and yours didn't hahaha.

As @jjrandorin indicated, I have two Gen 3 chargers each on their own 60A breakers with their own conductors. I did not daisy-chain them the way some folks on TMC seem to have them installed.

Each of the two is individually configured to be max 48A charging (all 5 green LEDs light up when I'm provisioning them). But the site is maxed at 64A. So when only one car is charging, it gets the max 48A. If two cars are plugged in and charging, then each is de-rated to 32A. When one car finishes charging (and is still plugged in), the other one slowly goes from 32A to 48A (over about 5 minutes).

So setting it up was kind of annoying. Aside from the wireboxes not being interchangeable (I don't are what people tell me, they simply don't swap hah)... setting them up as master/slave wasn't as easy as I thought.

The Master unit defaulted my site to 0A when the slave unit was wifi-connected to it. Which confused me since that broke both chargers haha. Also, the UI is absolutely rubbish. Once you have a slave unit set up, the stupid [Enable] bar on the master unit's wifi configuration has to be blue. They could have used the tried and true "on off" rectangle. But instead, Tesla went with a header label ... that especially if you're color-blind ... it'd be impossible to know you had to tap it.

Left Screenshot = Fail
Right Screenshot = Awesome

 

[mongo]

I tried it both ways. First was with only 1 unit one turned on, 33 amps. I then turned on the other 2, so all 3 were talking,
and again, limited to 33 amps.
As I say, I was a QA engineer for years, since I tend to push the corner case stuff. I also reviewed documentation since
again, I found lots of either mistakes, or things only the engineer understood.
So, I am just asking the 7 why? But if someone out there has as many units configured as I do, and has them "work" as I
thought they would, great, I just need to be told what I am doing wrong. So far, ......

Along with unplugging unit 1 from the car then plugging back in, and power cycling all 3 (while unplugged) ?

-Rubber Ducky

 

[h2ofun]

This may be the only instance in my history of TMC where my experience worked and yours didn't hahaha.

As @jjrandorin indicated, I have two Gen 3 chargers each on their own 60A breakers with their own conductors. I did not daisy-chain them the way some folks on TMC seem to have them installed.

Each of the two is individually configured to be max 48A charging (all 5 green LEDs light up when I'm provisioning them). But the site is maxed at 64A. So when only one car is charging, it gets the max 48A. If two cars are plugged in and charging, then each is de-rated to 32A. When one car finishes charging (and is still plugged in), the other one slowly goes from 32A to 48A (over about 5 minutes).

So setting it up was kind of annoying. Aside from the wireboxes not being interchangeable (I don't are what people tell me, they simply don't swap hah)... setting them up as master/slave wasn't as easy as I thought.

The Master unit defaulted my site to 0A when the slave unit was wifi-connected to it. Which confused me since that broke both chargers haha. Also, the UI is absolutely rubbish. Once you have a slave unit set up, the stupid [Enable] bar on the master unit's wifi configuration has to be blue. They could have used the tried and true "on off" rectangle. But instead, Tesla went with a header label ... that especially if you're color-blind ... it'd be impossible to know you had to tap it.

Left Screenshot = Fail
Right Screenshot = Awesome

View attachment 929257

Okay, reading your screen shots, you have the max current limited to 100 amps, which yep, with 2 units, works to 48 amps.
Yep, I have gone through all the disable and enabled stuff and got working but was not easy as you say.
So what does not makes sense is you state in your writing the site is maxed out to 64 A, what does that mean?
You showed 100A in the config. Go change it to 64 amp in the max network current, and my guess it will then only do what mine does
and charge max 32 amps.

 

[h2ofun]

Along with unplugging unit 1 from the car then plugging back in, and power cycling all 3 (while unplugged) ?

-Rubber Ducky

Yep, did all the combos. When I powered units on and off, no car was plugged in. It then showed connected to all three units.
But plugging in just one car, it limited to 33 amps, which makes sure if no smarts and used the 100A network input. When I changed to 150A, recycled everything, then we got 2 cars charging at 48 amps.
Just seems so far I am see no smarts.

 

[holeydonut]

Okay, reading your screen shots, you have the max current limited to 100 amps, which yep, with 2 units, works to 48 amps.
Yep, I have gone through all the disable and enabled stuff and got working but was not easy as you say.
So what does not makes sense is you state in your writing the site is maxed out to 64 A, what does that mean?
You showed 100A in the config. Go change it to 64 amp in the max network current, and my guess it will then only do what mine does
and charge max 32 amps.

Those screenshots are from the Gen 3 installation guide. My site is 64A max. I'm at work so I can't get the screenshots from my specific hardware.

My site max is 64A. So when two cars are charging each get 32A max (total is 64A). When only one car is charging (even if the other car is plugged in), I get 48A to the car that is charging.

PS, I use 64A because that's what my NEC load calc says was a safe continuous load to add on my 200A panel.

Wall Connector Power Sharing | Tesla Support

With Power Sharing, you can allow up to six 3 Wall Connectors to share power and charge multiple vehicles at once. Learn how to set up and troubleshoot Power Sharing.

www.tesla.com

 

[MP3Mike]

As I say, I was a QA engineer for years, since I tend to push the corner case stuff.

What "corner case" do you think you are pushing with this?

 

[h2ofun]

Those screenshots are from the Gen 3 installation guide. My site is 64A max. I'm at work so I can't get the screenshots from my specific hardware.

My site max is 64A. So when two cars are charging each get 32A max (total is 64A). When only one car is charging (even if the other car is plugged in), I get 48A to the car that is charging.

PS, I use 64A because that's what my NEC load calc says was a safe continuous load to add on my 200A panel.

Wall Connector Power Sharing | Tesla Support

With Power Sharing, you can allow up to six 3 Wall Connectors to share power and charge multiple vehicles at once. Learn how to set up and troubleshoot Power Sharing.

www.tesla.com

Interesting. So when you get home, can you take a screen shot of the 64 amp limit.
Can you then turn off the other wall connector and take a screen showing from the master saying it cannot talk to the other unit.
Then plug in this unit to the car, does it charge to 48 amps?
Load cals are interesting, did you use 100%, or the 40%?

Either way, lets try to see why we seem to be different. Before I change mine back to 100 amps, lets see what one unit turned on only does for your setup?

 

[mongo]

Yep, did all the combos. When I powered units on and off, no car was plugged in. It then showed connected to all three units.
But plugging in just one car, it limited to 33 amps, which makes sure if no smarts and used the 100A network input. When I changed to 150A, recycled everything, then we got 2 cars charging at 48 amps.
Just seems so far I am see no smarts.

Screen shots of the leader configuration page?

What "corner case" do you think you are pushing with this?

They were explaining their career choice, not referring to this setup.

 

[h2ofun]

What "corner case" do you think you are pushing with this?

Not sure yet, other than has anyone posted with 3, let alone 5 units configured like I have, or will have? And one will be the unit
with a j1772 plug on it from tesla

 

[MP3Mike]

And one will be the unit with a j1772 plug on it from tesla

Maybe that is related?

Have you tried setting up just the two with the NACS connector and see if they will work as expected?

Are they all on the same firmware version?

 

[h2ofun]

Screen shots of the leader configuration page?


They were explaining their career choice, not referring to this setup.

Okay, went backup and tested. Even though I tried this, here is what I got this time.

This is when I had the other two units off. Looks like the logic is it assumes they are being used at max rate, so it limits
the one one to remaining. When I hooked up the plug, yep, limited to 48 amps.
I then turned on the other two, and made sure they were all taking. It then showed them not plugged in and current draw zero.
I then plugged the car in and it charged at 48 amps. No idea why it did not work yesterday, but, it did work this time.

Does this logic make sense, I guess from a 100% safety perspective, yep.
Now, I do not leave my connectors on, unless I am using. So with this working this way, I guess my choice is to remove
the other units from the master, and just let each connector work independent. This why I can be smart about what I am doing.

Thanks for inputs, again, no idea why yesterday it did not work correctly, but what the heck. Still would like the option
to default to assume not connected with no power, but, I see why the logic does not seem to be this way.

 

[h2ofun]

Maybe that is related?

Have you tried setting up just the two with the NACS connector and see if they will work as expected?

Are they all on the same firmware version?

It seems to be related to if you are shared, and have power off the other units, it assumes they are pulling max current.
At least this makes sense, even though this does not work for me, and may have to just remove them from being shared.

 

[E90alex]

Why are you not leaving the other ones connected to power when not using? Breakers are not meant to be used as a light switch and cycled on and off frequently. You’re also probably confusing the WC since you have multiple ones going on and offline constantly.

 

[h2ofun]

Why are you not leaving the other ones connected to power when not using? Breakers are not meant to be used as a light switch and cycled on and off frequently. You’re also probably confusing the WC since you have multiple ones going on and offline constantly.

Because I do not want to leave things on that are not used that often, so that if I got a lightening strike.
Its just my nature that things left on will break, wear out sooner.
I now need to figure out how to get rid of the sharing and see if my thoughts of they just charge full with only one one works.
Yep, makes no sense, but that my excuse

 

[MP3Mike]

It seems to be related to if you are shared, and have power off the other units, it assumes they are pulling max current.

No, it is not assuming that they are pulling the maximum current, that would be 48A. It is assuming that they are pulling 1/[number of WCs] amps.

At least this makes sense, even though this does not work for me, and may have to just remove them from being shared.

I assume that each WC is "assigned" 1/[number of WCs] amps that they can use when they can't connect to the lead. That way if for some reason the WiFi network goes down they don't all get disabled. (They are just degraded.)

You could always contact Tesla and suggest that they add an option where you can assign how much current each WC can use when the WiFi network is unavailable. Then you could set the ones that you would like to keep turned off to 0, so if they couldn't connect to the lead WC they wouldn't allow any charging. (Though given how things work Tesla likely wouldn't let you set it below 6A, since that is their stated minimum, but that seems reasonable to me.)

However, I don't understand why you want to turn them off, I'm sure the "vampire drain" of them is minimal...

 

[h2ofun]

Why are you not leaving the other ones connected to power when not using? Breakers are not meant to be used as a light switch and cycled on and off frequently. You’re also probably confusing the WC since you have multiple ones going on and offline constantly.

Okay, I just went up and removed the 2 units that were being shared. Disabled sharing in the master. Turned off the other Gen 3's and only had one on. It charges fine at 48 amps.
Wow, at least I know understand why things did not work since I was powering off units. Good to know. Now if for some reason
I want to put sharing back, I know what it will do, and the limits of its smarts.

Thanks everyone for the inputs!! I love when I understand stuff. Again, I was using is a way no one probably thought about at Tesla, maybe?

 

[h2ofun]

No, it is not assuming they are pulling the maximum current. It is assuming that they are pulling 1/[number of WCs] amps.


I assume that each WC is "assigned" 1/[number of WCs] amps that they can use when they can't connect to the lead. That way if for some reason the WiFi network goes down they don't all get disabled. (They are just degraded.)

You could always contact Tesla and suggest that they add an option where you can assign how much current each WC can use when the WiFi network is unavailable. Then you could set the ones that you would like to keep turned off to 0, so if they couldn't connect to the lead WC they wouldn't allow any charging. (Though given how things work Tesla likely wouldn't let you set it below 6A, since that is their stated minimum, but that seems reasonable to me.)

However, I don't understand why you want to turn them off, I'm sure the "vampire drain" of them is minimal...

What, would be great to have that option.
I just do not like leaving things on. I turn my computer off each night when I head to bed. I just believe things on
will wear out sooner. Valid? No idea, but .... Even though I have basically unlimited free electricity, I still turn
off the lights when I leave a room. Or I turn off my heat pumps when they do not need to be used on the shoulder periods of the seasons.

But, I agree, what I do is dumb

 

[holeydonut]

Interesting. So when you get home, can you take a screen shot of the 64 amp limit.
Can you then turn off the other wall connector and take a screen showing from the master saying it cannot talk to the other unit.
Then plug in this unit to the car, does it charge to 48 amps?
Load cals are interesting, did you use 100%, or the 40%?

Either way, lets try to see why we seem to be different. Before I change mine back to 100 amps, lets see what one unit turned on only does for your setup?

I'm 99% sure if I open the breaker to the slave unit, it's going to mess up my master unit from working at all. This is because I recall messing with my ghetto azz 3/4" conduit (it's actually a garbage disposal drain hose hehe) on my slave unit, and I had to re-provision the whole thing.

I agree with @E90alex, you're supposed to leave the slave Gen 3's powered and it's supposed to work as you want. I guess you'll lose a bit of electricity to power the Wifi and green LED though.

 

[mongo]

No, it is not assuming that they are pulling the maximum current, that would be 48A. It is assuming that they are pulling 1/[number of WCs] amps.


I assume that each WC is "assigned" 1/[number of WCs] amps that they can use when they can't connect to the lead. That way if for some reason the WiFi network goes down they don't all get disabled. (They are just degraded.)

You could always contact Tesla and suggest that they add an option where you can assign how much current each WC can use when the WiFi network is unavailable. Then you could set the ones that you would like to keep turned off to 0, so if they couldn't connect to the lead WC they wouldn't allow any charging. (Though given how things work Tesla likely wouldn't let you set it below 6A, since that is their stated minimum, but that seems reasonable to me.)

However, I don't understand why you want to turn them off, I'm sure the "vampire drain" of them is minimal...

It is the maximum current for a follower that is not able to communicate with the leader, just not the maximum current the WC is set to.
So leader node has to assume the incommunicado units are maxing out their non-comm limits.

 

[holeydonut]

It is the maximum current for a follower that is not able to communicate with the leader, just not the maximum current the WC is set to.
So leader node has to assume the incommunicado units are maxing out their non-comm limits.

My experience was the leader... ?master? just stopped working when the follower... ?slave? units went offline.

BTW, I'm still using the old convention from IDE drives. Has tech largely moved away from master/slave? Like I legit don't know if I'm inadvertently offending people using that terminology.