Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Get Amped Tour: Dallas, Texas 8/18-19

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Could you elaborate on this a little more (why you prefer the textile seats)?

My experience with leather seats is that they are short lived, cold and slippery in winter and hot and sticky in summer. Nothing I saw (or felt) about the leather seats in Tesla did anything to change my mind.

Wow...I'm taken by surprise....I guess....that you feel so strongly about the styling and these features...and this is not to say you aren't entitled to your own opinion..... Is this something strong enough to make you reconsider your reservation???!!?

Unless some financial or other catastrophe happens, I'll certainly get the Telsa. There are far more positives than negatives about the Model S and I want to support the technology (just like in 2001 I wanted to support the hybrid technology of the Prius). My opinion is that it would be a much better car if it looked like it belonged in the 21st century rather than something designed when horses pulled carriages. I'm sure that a more form-follows-function design would lower the aerodynamic drag by quite a few points increasing the highway range while providing a lot more interior room.

Note that I also think the Fisker, Jaguar, and most other cars don't look any better. I also realize that many think that the Model S looks wonderful. The new Prius look better (or at least they look like they belong in the 21st century rather than the 19th) but they have other problems such as price, feeping creatures, and lack of real technical advancement (and the Toyota service) all of which make me uninterested in the new ones. Around Dallas I get over 70 mpg in my 2004, the new ones might get me another 3-4 mpg. They should be getting over 100 mpg by now but silly marketing has made them larger with a bigger engine (totally unnecessary) so mpg has taken a hit from what it should be.

My review probably came across as more negative it really was because the positive things have all been said many times in other reviews so I didn't repeat them. That's why I put the scorecard at the bottom. Four As, one B, one C, two Ds, and zero F (six good out of eight total scores) is really quite good for the first mass production car in a new factory. (And if Telsa included the cute girl, one of the Ds would become an A. :biggrin:)
 
Jerry,
Wow that was a harsh review. I am not a reservation holder so my group showed up at 9am and managed to wrangle 2 test drives before the event officially started.(many thanks to the tesla rep that let us jump in a car) I drove the blue car and rode in the white performance car. I gotta say that the rear exit was not a big deal and I respectfully disagree on the styling. Everyone in my group was blown away by the looks of the car!
My only other high end car experience was a 2008 e63 and I would say that the model s was close to this car. Perhaps my expectations were to low for the model s after reading all of the nitpicking on this forum, but I came away completely sold on the car!

If you look at the results on the bottom there were four As, one B, one C, two Ds, and zero F (six good--four really good--out of eight total scores) which is really quite good for the first mass production car in a new factory. I could have easily added thirty more points about how how I liked the ride, handling, power, etc. but that's been repeated so many times that I didn't feel it was necessary, so I only wrote about the things that were different than what others have said. Plus it took me over three hours to write that one (I was at the event from about 09:30 to 12:30) and started writing as soon as I got home so that I wouldn't forget anything.
 
I drove the Silver non-perf and very much enjoyed myself. Thank you Tesla for making such a solid car. You are making it so hard for me to hang on to my CLS and that says plenty. For a first try the results are amazing despite any imperfections. Here is to you... Cheers. Now onto to pressing the finalize button.
 
Jerry is an ultra hypermiler as I recall. Not that that's a negative, but keep in mind Jerry's priorities and thoughts about how the car should reflect that may not exactly sync up with folks generally in the market for a Model S.

Again, no disrespect at all to Jerry, I get where he's coming from, we've all got our priorities.
 
My opinion is that it would be a much better car if it looked like it belonged in the 21st century rather than something designed when horses pulled carriages.
i'm having trouble seeing the horse-drawn carriage era in the Model S shape. Perhaps my imagination isn't what it used to be. I'm confident TEG will fix it for me somehow, though.
 
Jerry is an ultra hypermiler as I recall. Not that that's a negative, but keep in mind Jerry's priorities and thoughts about how the car should reflect that may not exactly sync up with folks generally in the market for a Model S.

Again, no disrespect at all to Jerry, I get where he's coming from, we've all got our priorities.

Different strokes for different folks. Because people have a different opinion doesn't mean they're wrong (or right).
 
i'm having trouble seeing the horse-drawn carriage era in the Model S shape. Perhaps my imagination isn't what it used to be. I'm confident TEG will fix it for me somehow, though.

LOL. If you take a look at a stagecoach and squint a bit, or maybe take off your glasses, first there are the horses that equate to the hood (and interestingly ICE cars placed the engine in exactly the same place that the horses were, the only difference being that the horses weren't enclosed), the main body of the coach which equates to where the the five passengers sit, and the boot in the back which equates to the hatch area (although that's been extended in car design from the boot of the stagecoach).

The best aerodynamic shape is like a raindrop. So if we move the passenger compartment up a bit to reduce the "horse" part the hatch area becomes larger. Then we smooth the angle between the body and the hood so the airflow isn't diverted by the windshield. We don't have to extend the rear of the car as much as the DS-21 because the Kammback design allows good airflow without a long tail so the car has more useful interior space.
 
Perhaps you can providing an example of another vehicle (or a prototype sketch?) of a modern vehicle that is (a) street legal, (b) carries 4+ passengers, and (c) more "raindrop-shaped" than the Model S?

The Prius is more raindrop-shaped than the Model S. It carries four full sized adults (five is a pinch because it's narrower)
 
The Prius is more raindrop-shaped than the Model S. It carries four full sized adults (five is a pinch because it's narrower)
I would argue similarly-raindrop-shaped, not more. To my eye, Prius looks more like a cheese wedge. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Drag coefficient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In the Measured Drag Coefficients figure on that page, the Model S reminds me of "Streamlined Body" whereas the Prius reminds me of "Streamlined Half-body". By this metric, the Prius is ahead of the Model S. Of course, that's at the general/conceptual level.

At the actual/practical level, the Model S is ahead...
0.25 Toyota Prius
0.24 Tesla Model S
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient

So I guess your "Model S doesn't match raindrop" characterization doesn't convince me either. So I'm back at "I don't understand the horsedrawn carriage era characterization".
 
Ok I have had some time for the model s kool aid high to wear off and there are 2 things I agree with Jerry on.
1. Parcel shelf is funky.
2. door handle in final customer cars need to extend as you approach the car, although it is not too different from my keyless entry on the 2012 volt. Press button on handle to unlock, then pull handle.

I read the article on thestreet.com and it came across as a pump and dump article for the stock, but after driving the car I think this author nailed my sentiment. Sigh...guess I am a groupie :)
 
Ok I have had some time for the model s kool aid high to wear off and there are 2 things I agree with Jerry on.
1. Parcel shelf is funky.
2. door handle in final customer cars need to extend as you approach the car, although it is not too different from my keyless entry on the 2012 volt. Press button on handle to unlock, then pull handle.

I read the article on thestreet.com and it came across as a pump and dump article for the stock, but after driving the car I think this author nailed my sentiment. Sigh...guess I am a groupie :)

I really liked that article too. I wasn't out to create controversy, but I've made no secret that I'm not a real fan of the Model S styling (although it does look better in person than in pictures). And I like light colours more than dark ones. The shortcoming are few (2 out of 8 categories) but they are there. The point to remember is that it's a car and not a panacea. And I believe even Elon said he disliked the steering wheel. (My guess is that to get the car out it was the expedient choice)
 
Perhaps you can providing an example of another vehicle (or a prototype sketch?) of a modern vehicle that is (a) street legal, (b) carries 4+ passengers, and (c) more "raindrop-shaped" than the Model S?

Always wanted this one to go into production.....:smile: Back when Sheen wasn't so....Sheen.

Wraith-Turbo-Interceptor.jpg
 
The trouble comes when a reviewer grades subjective items. All of the readily measured elements of the Model S are excellent. The styling, however, is excellent if you like it, and many of us do. Likewise, some like the "minimalist" interior, while others decry the "spartan" lack of pockets and bins.

When I read a review, I'm primarily looking for information about things I cannot gather by looking at the car (in person, videos, or photos). Items like drive dynamics, stereo performance, the specific nature of internal sounds, fit & finish ... these are informative for me. Statements like, "there's too much chrome" tell me about the author, but nothing new about the car.
 
The trouble comes when a reviewer grades subjective items. All of the readily measured elements of the Model S are excellent. The styling, however, is excellent if you like it, and many of us do. Likewise, some like the "minimalist" interior, while others decry the "spartan" lack of pockets and bins.

When I read a review, I'm primarily looking for information about things I cannot gather by looking at the car (in person, videos, or photos). Items like drive dynamics, stereo performance, the specific nature of internal sounds, fit & finish ... these are informative for me. Statements like, "there's too much chrome" tell me about the author, but nothing new about the car.

*applause*
 
Regarding the Dodge...
Doesn't look like that vehicle meets criteria (b) or (c). Dunno about (a).

Getting back to Jerry33...
At least for the moment, I'm not intentionally nitpicking. I'm honestly curious what alternatives for street legal, general public sedans you consider more "aerodynamic" and "modern" than the Model S from an exterior styling perspective.
 
The outside mirrors didn't seem to adjust very far outwards. Using the head-wobble method I ran out of adjustment before I ran out of wobble. There wasn't enough time during the drive to really tell if they adjusted far enough or not.
I had the same sense on my drive, and I think part of it was because you still see some of the car in the mirror, so you think you're not adjusted very far out. But, keep in mind that the car flares at the rear wheels, so you may be adjusted farther out than you think. At a later event, I was able to sit in the car and adjust the mirror to verify that the left mirror's field of view slightly overlapped what I was seeing in the rear-view mirror. The only thing I haven't been able to evaluate is whether the field of view goes far enough to the left that a car that's leaving the mirror's view on the left will also be entering my peripheral vision. I hope so!

The blue and brown just didn't do anything for me--ho hum is the kindest description I can think of. I suspect that the blue and brown will look better at night than they do in the daytime. Too bad there wasn't a grey one, I wanted to see one of those.
You noted later that it was an overcast day, and I think that may have a lot to do with your impression. These colors really seem to be at their best in bright sun. Even in the shade on a sunny day, they are so dark that you lose a lot of the color information, and they register essentially as black. I would imagine that they will look black at night as well, unless the street lights are bright enough to give you a glint of color.

I wouldn't call the steering wheel controls user friendly.
I'm sorry to say I mostly agree with you on this, but I hope it's a matter of things needing more refinement and polish. I played around with them a bit the other day, and my impressions were:
  • The audio controls on the left side work fine for controlling your current source (pause, resume, volume, next, previous; with the caveat that there need to be more steps in volume, and that pressing and holding the next/previous buttons should fast-forward or rewind on sources that support that). But, there was no obvious way to use them to browse or switch sources. For example, I might want to switch from my iPhone to the FM radio. I guess you're supposed to use the 17" screen for this interaction, which is probably okay.
  • The right-side controls were a bit confusing, and somewhat limited. It seemed as though you could assign the function of the wheel to one of a good number of different items, but it doesn't seem to be built so that you could, for example, access any one of those common items while driving. I may be totally wrong on this, but my impression was that it was intended to be set to whatever you thought you would use most.

Getting out of the rear is an adventure. Be sure there is a cute girl (or guy depending) in the middle position so you can put your head in her (his) lap while exiting--might was well turn a negative into a positive.
I've heard people complain about the rear doors, and to be sure they're pretty narrow at the bottom, but I'm a big guy (6'1", 235, with size 13 feet) and I didn't have any trouble getting into or out of the back seat.
The steering wheel did not seem to go with the rest of the car. It's a hard thing to describe, but it felt foreign to the car (and not because of the MB turn signal placement either, which I flubbed a couple of times even though I knew what to expect).
That's a really interesting comment, and not one that matches my experience. Personally, I love the steering wheel. I think it feels great. I wish it were heated, and I wish the turn signal and cruise control stalks were in a more conventional arrangement, but I like it.

There was a parcel shelf. It sits on two molded plastic pieces that are part of the headliner (for lack of a better term). Looked like it should be free rather than $250. Because it wasn't fastened down in any way, this would be a projectile in any accident but perhaps this isn't the final version of the shelf. There is a cover to the real footwell (assumes no third row seating) so there is plenty of covered storage even without the shelf.
I agree that the parcel shelf is not worth $250. I think $50 is a reasonable price for it. However, it does not just sit on those rails. At least on the static car in Palo Alto, the shelf had two pins near the front on each side that engage with recesses in the track so that it sort of snaps into place. With the front edge secured, if you push forward on the rear edge of the shelf, it folds in two places so that it sort of stacks up towards the front. It's an okay design, but I greatly prefer the roller-shade style cover in my Prius.
 
I had the same sense on my drive [outside mirrors not very adjustable], and I think part of it was because you still see some of the car in the mirror, so you think you're not adjusted very far out. But, keep in mind that the car flares at the rear wheels, so you may be adjusted farther out than you think. At a later event, I was able to sit in the car and adjust the mirror to verify that the left mirror's field of view slightly overlapped what I was seeing in the rear-view mirror. The only thing I haven't been able to evaluate is whether the field of view goes far enough to the left that a car that's leaving the mirror's view on the left will also be entering my peripheral vision. I hope so!

Agreed. That's why I said the test drive wasn't long enough to see whether or not that was the case. Also the backup camera may provide the same functionality. A longer demonstration ride is really required.

You noted later that it was an overcast day, and I think that may have a lot to do with your impression. [blue and brown colours] These colors really seem to be at their best in bright sun. Even in the shade on a sunny day, they are so dark that you lose a lot of the color information, and they register essentially as black. I would imagine that they will look black at night as well, unless the street lights are bright enough to give you a glint of color.

It did turn sunny about 10 minutes before I left, but I still wasn't thrilled with the brown. The blue was out on a drive so I really never saw it in the sun. This is really a personal preference and because I like light coloured cars better than dark coloured ones It would be hard for me to find a dark colour that really did something for me. (My belief is that dark coloured cars look extremely good in dealer showrooms with artificial light but in the day they never look that good and so they are always a disappointment.)

I was hoping the brown would be more of a copper/gold/root beer colour when I saw it in person so that it stood out. (From the pictures posted by others, I had a hard time seeing what they saw in the brown so I was hoping that in real life it would look far better.) Those who like the dark colours shouldn't be put off by those who favour light coloured cars.

I'm sorry to say I mostly agree with you on this [steering wheel controls], but I hope it's a matter of things needing more refinement and polish. I played around with them a bit the other day, and my impressions were:
  • The audio controls on the left side work fine for controlling your current source (pause, resume, volume, next, previous; with the caveat that there need to be more steps in volume, and that pressing and holding the next/previous buttons should fast-forward or rewind on sources that support that). But, there was no obvious way to use them to browse or switch sources. For example, I might want to switch from my iPhone to the FM radio. I guess you're supposed to use the 17" screen for this interaction, which is probably okay.
  • The right-side controls were a bit confusing, and somewhat limited. It seemed as though you could assign the function of the wheel to one of a good number of different items, but it doesn't seem to be built so that you could, for example, access any one of those common items while driving. I may be totally wrong on this, but my impression was that it was intended to be set to whatever you thought you would use most.

The problem is that the button functions are too overloaded, particularly the right side like you say. Now overloading functions may be fine in Java or C++, but user controls should be more obvious, or there should be a few more buttons, or (best) one of the buttons should be "menu" accessing a setup menu on the screen.

My belief is that Tesla was limited in what they could do because they used the MB steering wheel to speed up development. I don't say this was a wrong choice, but the contrast of the ease of use between the 17" screen and the steering wheel controls was striking--which probably made it appear worse than it actually was. A cheat sheet would go a long way to overcome this (We geeks read the manual before driving and had there been a manual to study before the test drive the steering wheel buttons might not have appeared to be so unfriendly.). I hope a cheat sheet is included with the car or that a TMC member creates one. The display type buttons in the Model X should fix this early adopter problem.

I've heard people complain about the rear doors, and to be sure they're pretty narrow at the bottom, but I'm a big guy (6'1", 235, with size 13 feet) and I didn't have any trouble getting into or out of the back seat.

I believe whether this is a problem or not depends upon how flexible you are rather than how big you are. I'm not nearly as flexible as I was when I was twenty or even forty:smile:. The lack of grab bars made the problem worse. As an aside, I read that some though the doors didn't sound solid when being closed. I didn't find that. They sounded pretty solid to me.

That's a really interesting comment [steering wheel feel], and not one that matches my experience. Personally, I love the steering wheel. I think it feels great. I wish it were heated, and I wish the turn signal and cruise control stalks were in a more conventional arrangement, but I like it.

I thought a long time before writing that part, and it was really hard to put into words my feelings about it. Now it might be that there just wasn't time to get it really adjusted correctly, although I did spend some time doing the adjustments, and it might grow on me with use, but it just didn't seem to match the feel of the rest of the car.

I agree that the parcel shelf is not worth $250. I think $50 is a reasonable price for it. However, it does not just sit on those rails. At least on the static car in Palo Alto, the shelf had two pins near the front on each side that engage with recesses in the track so that it sort of snaps into place. With the front edge secured, if you push forward on the rear edge of the shelf, it folds in two places so that it sort of stacks up towards the front. It's an okay design, but I greatly prefer the roller-shade style cover in my Prius.

Okay, cool. The one in the brown car didn't seem to have any pins on it (and I looked) so perhaps it was an earlier version. I too like the roller shade design better because it's out of the way when not in use but the one in my Prius has lost the screw that holds the plastic anchor piece in so it no longer functions. (At ~140,000 miles that's not a real surprise, but had Toyota put a drop of Locktite on the screw at the factory it wouldn't have fallen out in the first place. Of course the screw went to that hidden part of every car which holds dropped screws and jesus clips.)