getting more than 11kW from 3rd party charger? (EU)

[holmgang]

Tried only 2 3rd party chargers so far.

1. For pay. 22kW advertised. Box has single Type 2 plug, and I used my Mennekes Type 2 to connect to car. Maxes out at 11kW

2. Free. 22kW advertised. Box has standard Schuko plug labeled 230v and a Type 2 plug labeled 400v. I used my Mennekes cable to connect to car. Also maxes out at 11kW

Car reads apparent 230V @ 16A, which only makes 3.7kW which is wrong since it's actually receiving 11kW.

Maybe the car is reading both the voltage and current wrong, AND the cable is limited to 32A, is the only plausible explanation? 400V*32A=13kW.

Questions are:
1. Why is it topping out at 11 (is it limitation of cable as above)

2. Why are the reading in the computer and all wrong for both voltage and current

3. How would people get faster-than-11kW charging from stations that don't have its own cable? From the few times that I've noticed, no non-Tesla stations carry its own cable

 

[holmgang]

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Tried only 2 3rd party chargers so far.

1. For pay. 22kW advertised. Box has single Type 2 plug, and I used my Mennekes Type 2 to connect to car. Maxes out at 11kW

2. Free. 22kW advertised. Box has standard Schuko plug labeled 230v and a Type 2 plug labeled 400v. I used my Mennekes cable to connect to car. Also maxes out at 11kW

Car reads apparent 230V @ 16A, which only makes 3.7kW which is wrong since it's actually receiving 11kW.

Maybe the car is reading both the voltage and current wrong, AND the cable is limited to 32A, is the only plausible explanation? 400V*32A=13kW.

Questions are:
1. Why is it topping out at 11 (is it limitation of cable as above)

2. Why are the reading in the computer and all wrong for both voltage and current

3. How would people get faster-than-11kW charging from stations that don't have its own cable? From the few times that I've noticed, no non-Tesla stations carry its own cable

The car should have a (3) symbol while charging that indicates 3-phase charging.
See attachment on this post:
Model 3/Wall Connector charge current limited to 16 Amps?

The charger is maxing out at 16A per phase?

 

[holmgang]

The car should have a (3) symbol while charging that indicates 3-phase charging.
See attachment on this post:
Model 3/Wall Connector charge current limited to 16 Amps?

The charger is maxing out at 16A per phase?

Yes, it showed a small 3 in the car computer !

 

[jmaddr]

Isn't 11kw the max for the model 3? 48A at 240V = ~11kw (or charging at about 15% per hour). The older Model S had a 80A limit which would be ~20kw for them. Perhaps the older S would pull 20kw at those same chargers. The newer ones are also limited to 48A.

If the inside screen said "3" (maybe the app...which I would also hope showed the "3"... just isn't showing it), then my conclusion would be you are getting 16A x 3 phases for a total of 48A....or ~11kw. That's the fastest your are going to get on type 2.

 

[smatthew]

The EVSE may be able to supply 22kw, but the charger inside your car can only use 11kw. It's like when you plug holiday lights into an outlet. The outlet may be able to supply 20 amps, but the lights only draw what they can use.

 

[holmgang]

So the car display is correct that 230V*16A*3=11kW

Question is what is why is it not drawing 400V and where is the limitation specified? i.e. what should I expect from 50kW or 150kW DC fast chargers?

Ostensibly the answer is that it is limitation of the on-board charger (and not e.g. of the Mennekes cable)...and that if the DCfc has the charger built into the station like TeslaSC, then I would get the faster rates.

The limits are not in the EU car manual in charging section or car specification section

 

[cypho]

Onboard Charger


This may be the EU link. I can't get it to work it seems Tesla is trying to Force forward me to the US site. Link might work if you are located in Europe.
Onboard Charger

 

[Rocky_H]

Ostensibly the answer is that it is limitation of the on-board charger (and not e.g. of the Mennekes cable)...and that if the DCfc has the charger built into the station like TeslaSC, then I would get the faster rates.

Yes, that is definitely the case. The onboard charger in the car is what converts from AC electricity into DC electricity to directly charge the battery. That is the piece of equipment that has the 11kW limit. So yes, any external DC fast charging station handles all of that conversion outside the car, so CHAdeMO, CCS, and Superchargers will all be able to send much higher power into the car, because it bypasses that onboard charging unit with the low power limit.

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

What you're plugging the car into is NOT a charger, its an extension cord with ground leakage detection. The charger is inside the car, so the highest rate possible is limited by the car. The onboard charger is rated at 11.5kW, sometimes it will show 12kW. The 22kW rating on the plug at a stall is just indicating its designed to carry up to that power.

If you want to charge faster than the onboard charger, you need an external charger. Thats what the DC fast chargers do, like CHAdeMO, CCS, or the Tesla Supercharger. They charge the battery directly, whereas the regular AC stuff powers up the onboard charger.

 

[miimura]

So the car display is correct that 230V*16A*3=11kW

Question is what is why is it not drawing 400V and where is the limitation specified? i.e. what should I expect from 50kW or 150kW DC fast chargers?

Ostensibly the answer is that it is limitation of the on-board charger (and not e.g. of the Mennekes cable)...and that if the DCfc has the charger built into the station like TeslaSC, then I would get the faster rates.

The limits are not in the EU car manual in charging section or car specification section

The car's voltage reading is the Line to Neutral voltage of 230VAC. The same connection will read 400V from Line to Line, if measured that way. The car does not display the voltage when DC Fast charging because the voltage is the battery pack voltage.

The 16 amp limitation can be coming from any part along the line from the charging station, the cable, or the on-board charger. You will get the lowest spec in the chain. In this case, I believe the European Model 3 on-board charger is limited to 16A 3-phase charging. You can also get 32A single phase charging (7.4kW). If you need to charge faster than 11kW, you need to use CCS.